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Crime & Punishment

 
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HighSec Ganking and Appropriate Punishment

Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#61 - 2015-07-16 13:58:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kandu Harr wrote:
1. i never said the cargo was scanned with probes, its a cargo scanner on the undock
2-3 the mach lands before the freighter has 'come out of warp'. a single pass on a scanner, they already have the sig
6. stealth bombers
7. ganker never leaves grid
9. shooting the bomber doesn't free your ship
and can flipping the fallen loot is trivial.

wake up, you are smarter than that.

1: You specifically, and I quote, posted "1. combat probes at Jita undock, scan freighters for sigs and cargo"
2&3: If the freighter is warping directly to a gate then yes you are correct, a Machariel can get there first. If the freighter is warping to a safespot then it is impossible for the Machariel to get there first unless the freighter pilot is dumb enough to use a safe that has already been busted. For one simple reason, you can't scan down a safespot until there's a ship there to scan down.
6: I said that Catalysts are more common, I did not say stealth bombers weren't used
7: So why aren't you shooting the flashy red pirate in the face?
9: Did I say that it did?
10: You specifically, and once again I quote, posted "drop mtu and scoop all the loot and (blue) wrecks". Can flipping is something entirely different and no longer works the way that it used to. Looting a freighter wreck still results in a suspect flag unless you're the pilot who had it removed from under you.

I'm certainly smarter than you going by what you've posted so far.

Are you a Veers alt? He shares your misconceptions to the point that you're an almost word for word match.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#62 - 2015-07-16 14:09:42 UTC
Kandu Harr wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Kandu Harr wrote:
blah blah blah



Pics or you're just another damn alt liar.


fair enough. i'll post them when i get home from work.



I like pictures of ponies. Pretty ponies, not the normal ones. Could you please photo shop a pretty ponie into what ever evidence you provide?
Kandu Harr
Doomheim
#63 - 2015-07-16 14:10:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I'm certainly smarter than you going by what you've posted so far.


that is quite likely. but it doesn't change a thing.
tell me how to get a freighter out without ganking the machs.

the only change i asked for was to prohibit a criminally-flagged individual from boarding a ship in space, clarified to high sec.
i don't see how this is so bad.

now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game?
and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed.
Enia McCool
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2015-07-16 14:31:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Enia McCool
Kandu Harr wrote:

tell me how to get a freighter out without ganking the machs.


Let me help you with that.

  • Webs
  • Not carrying 20b in your triple expanded freighter
  • Using a JF with exit cyno
  • Paying a ransom
  • Counter bumping
  • Jams
  • Not carrying stupid amounts of value
  • Growing a pair and shooting the flashy red guy
  • Buying a permit
  • Did I mention not carrying 20b in your triple expanded freighter?


Kandu Harr wrote:

now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game?
and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed.


It doesn't need fixing, people need fixing.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#65 - 2015-07-16 14:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kandu Harr wrote:
that is quite likely. but it doesn't change a thing.
tell me how to get a freighter out without ganking the machs.
Friends with webs, insta-undock bookmarks, gank the Bowhead, lock up the ships the Bowhead drops so that they can't be boarded, steal the ships that the Bowhead drops and many many more . Yes I'm aware that you've already poopoo'd all of these ideas in another thread, and IMHO that shows just how truly ignorant you are of the underlying mechanics involved.

Quote:
the only change i asked for was to prohibit a criminally-flagged individual from boarding a ship in space, clarified to high sec.
i don't see how this is so bad.
Now you need to provide a coherent argument in support of your idea, so that we can ridicule you some more

Quote:
now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game?
Hmmm lets see, it creates market demand for certain ships and modules, it removes isk from circulation via destruction, it might make people actually pay attention to the game, etc. etc

Quote:
and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed.
It's been this way for 12 years, despite all of the gnashing of teeth, rending of hair and the lamenting of people who should be playing something else, Eve still isn't dead.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#66 - 2015-07-16 14:39:46 UTC
Kandu Harr wrote:
the only change i asked for was to prohibit a criminally-flagged individual from boarding a ship in space, clarified to high sec.
i don't see how this is so bad.

It's a straight up buff for freighter pilots/nerf for freighter gankers. You still have no provided a reason why CCP should change the game balance (and spend the development time) to favour you at the expense of another player group.

Kandu Harr wrote:
now imagine 10 such groups acting in each trade hub. how will that be good for the game?
and that is where we will end up if this isn't fixed.

"The sky is falling..."

Nothing has changed. The bumping and re-shipping mechanics have been unchanged since Crimewatch 2.0 three years ago, actually probably much longer. Even after all the teeth-gnashing when Globby popularized it months ago, it still is basically practiced only by him and perhaps a handful of others against freighters. The fact that it is not simple to execute and trivially blocked by any resistance probably has something to do with it.

Freighter ganking is incredibly rare as an overall category of ship loss - they are statistically one of the safest ships in the game. Hyperdunking is even more rare. Honestly, a few teams hyperdunking freighters in the hubs would be an excellent source of conflict for the game and hopefully reinforce the lesson that nothing is safe in this game. Too many players treat AFK freighter hauling as a fundamental right to move things in this game. This leads to boring and complacent gameplay.

Ganking is good for the game overall. You want to nerf it, albeit in a slight and niche sort of way, for no reason other than you want increased safety for your hauler. That is not a very good reason to spend limit development resources on making the game more boring.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-07-16 14:53:11 UTC
This crap again?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#68 - 2015-07-16 14:59:32 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
This crap again?



I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but....

A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter.
Domino Vyse
FeedingMachine
War and Wormhole
#69 - 2015-07-16 15:09:00 UTC
I like turtles.
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#70 - 2015-07-16 15:10:13 UTC
Domino Vyse wrote:
I like turtles.


same
Martyr Oira
Thundercats
The Initiative.
#71 - 2015-07-16 15:12:23 UTC
semi-professional content consumers complaining about elite PvP

After calling us bullies, exploiters and worse our style of playing eve must cater towards your needs?
Call me gullible but i am sure that's not how it works.

As loyalanon would put it: Build a bridge and get over it.
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#72 - 2015-07-16 15:13:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Globby
Lol if you think highsec ganking hasn't been around for 5+ years, it's just more obvious now because of the accuracy and proliferation of killboard websites and CODE. bragging about it rather than other groups trying to keep it hush-hush to keep their strategies secret.

also hyperdunking is really hard and easily countered by having an alt with an hour of skill training, or a webber, or not being afk, or anything really. hope this helps
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#73 - 2015-07-16 15:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
This crap again?



I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but....

A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter.
Well if we're talking more realistic collision mechanics then gankers would be quite happy with that.
A projectile (Reaper with 5MN MWD) massing 1,650ish tonnes (Reaper = 1,157,000kg, 5MN MWD = additional mass of 500,000kg) traveling at around Mach 7 (2,500m/s) is going to transfer a sizable amount of momentum and kinetic energy to whatever it hits; which equates to a big mess.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#74 - 2015-07-16 15:21:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
This crap again?



I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but....

A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter.
Well if we're talking more realistic collision mechanics then gankers would be quite happy with that, a projectile (Reaper with 5MN MWD) massing 1600 tons traveling at around Mach 7 (2500m/s) is going to transfer a sizable amount of momentum and kinetic energy to whatever it hits; which equates to a big mess.


basically it's so much energy that it basically 1 shots anything. hth
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#75 - 2015-07-16 15:24:03 UTC
^^ pretty much this

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2015-07-16 15:35:40 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
This crap again?



I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but....

A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter.


Wait.....wait...I know this! Newton's Laws of Motion, right?
Taunrich Kaufmann
Hykkota-Kaufmann Foundaries LLC
#77 - 2015-07-16 15:52:40 UTC
Martyr Oira wrote:
After calling us bullies, exploiters and worse our style of playing eve must cater towards your needs?
Call me gullible but i am sure that's not how it works.

Not only this, OP wants CCP to change the mechanics of EVE itself, because 'muh feelings'.
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#78 - 2015-07-16 16:05:22 UTC
You CODE guys aren't even trying with these alt posts anymore. CONCORD blows up your ship for attacking a criminal? A war dec is the only way you can legally shoot someone in high sec? Come on now.
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#79 - 2015-07-16 16:13:07 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
You CODE guys aren't even trying with these alt posts anymore. CONCORD blows up your ship for attacking a criminal? A war dec is the only way you can legally shoot someone in high sec? Come on now.


It's also illegal to kill someone in lowsec because you lose security standing.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#80 - 2015-07-16 16:56:32 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
This crap again?



I don't think it's crap. I don't care enough to weigh in on either side, but....

A freighter is a capital ship not a beachball. It should act more like the former and less like the latter.
Well if we're talking more realistic collision mechanics then gankers would be quite happy with that.
A projectile (Reaper with 5MN MWD) massing 1,650ish tonnes (Reaper = 1,157,000kg, 5MN MWD = additional mass of 500,000kg) traveling at around Mach 7 (2,500m/s) is going to transfer a sizable amount of momentum and kinetic energy to whatever it hits; which equates to a big mess.



I don't want realistic collisions. If I did want more realistic collisions I would have said something like "I want more realistic collisions"

It's cute that you took the liberty of extrapalating something I didn't say into something that would totally break the game and then imply I'm dumb because of your bad idea. I see one of your rabid supporters actually fell for it.

All the faux math was a nice touch. X times Y time Z was fine, but when you ended with 'equates to a big mess' your argument lost most of its precision. (I was going to say lost most of it's impact, but I'm thinking that would be wasted on you)

I'll give some more flesh to the beachball skeleton.

Empty Freighter = Beach Ball
Freighter full of tritanium = Brick that a mach will bounce off of w/ little effect
Freighter 1/2 goods and 1/2 tritanium = something between a beach ball and a brick

Freighter pilots would have the option of trading out half of their cargo space for some heavy bulk commodity. Doing this would lessen their bumpability and lessen their top speed and their warp speed. Rough math analogy would be twice as safe (against bumping) and half as fast at travelling. Cut align time in half.