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Crime & Punishment

 
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HighSec Ganking and Appropriate Punishment
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#501 - 2015-07-29 15:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Captain obvious.... er Starfox

I did take them on the out gate. I think I mentioned I was in an enyo? There are a lot of HP to chew through. It could just crawl back to the gate and jump while I worked on it w/out bumping.

As to the other things. Our opinions differ. I can agree to disagree and leave it at that. We could both spend hours here w/ point and counter point, make up examples and justify anything. This isn't what I would call a new argument in eve.

OP - way wrong to the point where his ideas would break eve

Me - the perfect balance that would end in eve nirvana for all (google "perfection" you'll see my portrait and life story)

You - Well, puppies grow up, learn their manners and eventually behave like they are suposed to (I'm patient, you'll get there)




So you didn't fit a web on your Enyo, why? Prop, scram, web.



if it was fit for killing mission bears it was likely active tanked with a cap booster and a neut in the spare



Sigh, the enyo used to only have 2 midslots. I think that should be explanation enough for you two fitting wizards.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#502 - 2015-07-29 16:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Well I'd have a hard time moving things in them, without doing so. I find it odd, you are unaware of that fact. What?


All you said is that you have yet to lose them and you have had them for years, you made no mention of your usage pattern, if you don't undock them then they are not at risk, so the simple question is how often do you use them, once a month, once a week, every day. Another key part of the data is whether you use it traversing the pipes.

You are making a point by using a one liner, and by your comments on various threads I cannot quite see you as someone who is hauling or mining a lot for example, so if you said that you had never lost a mining ship that would equally be irrelevant

My freighter gets used once every two weeks on average at this point in time and it does not normally go through the main pipes, I also web it when I use it, same for the Orca that is used once a week. Could I even compare myself to those people who move goods between Jita and Gallente space via Uedama for example who must make that trip once a day, are they 99.97% safe in what they are doing, no.

Imprecise statements are valueless, simple as that.
The discussion was regarding the use of those ships and the fact that some had protection due to their blue status. Considering you frequent these boards on a regular basis, I find it odd you couldn't follow the discussion.
I'm not one for buying freighters or BR's and not using them. But if that floats your boat, good for you. Personally it makes no sense.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#503 - 2015-07-29 21:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Mag's wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Well I'd have a hard time moving things in them, without doing so. I find it odd, you are unaware of that fact. What?


All you said is that you have yet to lose them and you have had them for years, you made no mention of your usage pattern, if you don't undock them then they are not at risk, so the simple question is how often do you use them, once a month, once a week, every day. Another key part of the data is whether you use it traversing the pipes.

You are making a point by using a one liner, and by your comments on various threads I cannot quite see you as someone who is hauling or mining a lot for example, so if you said that you had never lost a mining ship that would equally be irrelevant

My freighter gets used once every two weeks on average at this point in time and it does not normally go through the main pipes, I also web it when I use it, same for the Orca that is used once a week. Could I even compare myself to those people who move goods between Jita and Gallente space via Uedama for example who must make that trip once a day, are they 99.97% safe in what they are doing, no.

Imprecise statements are valueless, simple as that.
The discussion was regarding the use of those ships and the fact that some had protection due to their blue status. Considering you frequent these boards on a regular basis, I find it odd you couldn't follow the discussion.
I'm not one for buying freighters or BR's and not using them. But if that floats your boat, good for you. Personally it makes no sense.


OK so it makes no sense to you, fair enough. Now where is another dead horse I can flog, ahh Freya Sertan thats another dead horse, perhaps better described as a dead donkey. In fact it was me pointing out the Goon blue list, please keep up, lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#504 - 2015-07-29 21:55:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


OK so it makes no sense to you, fair enough. Now where is another dead horse I can flog, ahh Freya Sertan thats another dead horse, perhaps better described as a dead donkey. In fact it was me pointing out the Goon blue list, please keep up, lol


Alright, so this is our first actual interaction and you go this way with it. I see why you're as well liked as you are. I think it's pretty funny actually. Tossing out word salad doesn't make you smart and using insults doesn't have the effect you might hope it does.

Ah well. Back to your whole "kill something" idea... remind me again how a killboard relates to knowledge of a game?

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#505 - 2015-07-29 23:41:21 UTC
Freya Sertan wrote:
Ah well. Back to your whole "kill something" idea... remind me again how a killboard relates to knowledge of a game?
According to Dracvlad a killboard is the most basic measure of success in Eve, if you don't have one you fail at Eve.

I had this discussion with him a while back, seemingly someone with no killboard appearances at all has no place talking about how to minimise the chances of appearing on a killboard or any other aspect of PvP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#506 - 2015-07-30 00:02:14 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Ah well. Back to your whole "kill something" idea... remind me again how a killboard relates to knowledge of a game?
According to Dracvlad a killboard is the most basic measure of success in Eve, if you don't have one you fail at Eve.

I had this discussion with him a while back, seemingly someone with no killboard appearances at all has no place talking about how to minimise the chances of appearing on a killboard or any other aspect of PvP.


I see. I had no idea I was so terrible at EvE. I would feel bad but my fun/HR is through the roof.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Valkin Mordirc
#507 - 2015-07-30 00:09:16 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Ah well. Back to your whole "kill something" idea... remind me again how a killboard relates to knowledge of a game?
According to Dracvlad a killboard is the most basic measure of success in Eve, if you don't have one you fail at Eve.

I had this discussion with him a while back, seemingly someone with no killboard appearances at all has no place talking about how to minimise the chances of appearing on a killboard or any other aspect of PvP.



If he believes that he must not be very happy with his EVE life. The first page of his kills have Concord all over them.
#DeleteTheWeak
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#508 - 2015-07-30 00:33:07 UTC
Killboards are the worst thing to happen to EVE.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#509 - 2015-07-30 06:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Ah well. Back to your whole "kill something" idea... remind me again how a killboard relates to knowledge of a game?
According to Dracvlad a killboard is the most basic measure of success in Eve, if you don't have one you fail at Eve.

I had this discussion with him a while back, seemingly someone with no killboard appearances at all has no place talking about how to minimise the chances of appearing on a killboard or any other aspect of PvP.



If he believes that he must not be very happy with his EVE life. The first page of his kills have Concord all over them.


That's because I was doing anti-ganking stuff, doh my brain hurts, but I am now back in Stain shooting mad Russians, basically people who shoot back, impressive isn't it? Attention span of a gnat requires you to check back a few pages more, but never mind...

Generally people of the HTFU community go on about what they call bears as if they have no idea at all about the game, a killboard on a main often indicates that they have been partaking of the game, be it kills and losses and I have both, so when someone without any kills or losses starts going off on the game mechanics on his main I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.

At least you Valkin have a killboard and of course I know it means nothing much, but it is possible to read a killboard, you know start looking at the kills, see what type of fleet the players was in look for smal gang stuff or solo stuff, get a feel for what they can do, its totally possible to do that and look behind the numbers, but then again you have a killboard that I can do that to, the other two here don't. Jonah proved to me that he has a certain knowledge of the game, but I still weight his words less than say yours with a vibrant killboard with plenty of interesting stuff in it.

In terms of the subject matter of this thread, I tried the AG stuff and found it easy to stop hyperdunking as long as we had intel on people being bumped, but difficult to stop full on ganks, the best approach is simply to blow up the wreck before it can be scooped. I did this to gain the experience to comment on it, might be new ideas for you guys but it gave me a good understanding even if I misunderstood some mechanics because I was observing them rather than testing them.

From my observations it is evident that the hisec punishment applied to gankers is inadequate and needs adjustment, and I can say that because I got involved. Now I am off back in 0.0 to have fun doing small gang stuff again, you do know that I can comment on this too, juist like you, but the other two, maybe not...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#510 - 2015-07-30 11:06:30 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Killboards are the worst thing to happen to EVE.

Efficiency on killboards is the worst thing to happen to eve. I like the idea of them as an intel gathering tool

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#511 - 2015-07-30 14:01:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Generally people of the HTFU community go on about what they call bears as if they have no idea at all about the game, a killboard on a main often indicates that they have been partaking of the game, be it kills and losses and I have both, so when someone without any kills or losses starts going off on the game mechanics on his main I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.


Dracvlad wrote:

ahh Freya Sertan thats another dead horse, perhaps better described as a dead donkey.


I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.

Really?

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#512 - 2015-07-30 14:14:41 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
From my observations it is evident that the hisec punishment applied to gankers is inadequate and needs adjustment
'Just one more nerf and it will be balanced.'

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#513 - 2015-07-30 14:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Killboards are the worst thing to happen to EVE.

Efficiency on killboards is the worst thing to happen to eve. I like the idea of them as an intel gathering tool

Problem is the repercussions they have on player mentality. It's inevitable, because humans.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#514 - 2015-07-30 15:18:58 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Killboards are the worst thing to happen to EVE.

Efficiency on killboards is the worst thing to happen to eve. I like the idea of them as an intel gathering tool

Problem is the repercussions they have on player mentality. It's inevitable, because humans.



Humans ruin everything. KBs are fine. They are a record. Just because there are delusional eve players that read way to much into them doesn't make them bad.

KB is a record. That some folks put too much emphasis on them isn't great, but all the details paint a picture. My kb is my pvp history. You can tell what I fly, who I fly with, where and when. You can see that I take risks and enjoy combat for the sake of explosions. You can see that sometimes I gank total strangers and that sometimes I use concord as a broker to trade my ship for someone elses.

You can also see what I am not. I'm no Vimsy - I'll take bait just to see if it still tastes good - winning/losing is secondary at best. I don't gank noobs and corrode the game and then quote some deep immersion role player BS like CODE. I don't sit on hub undocks and shoot fish as they come out of the barrel like Marmites. You can look at my kb and read me like a cheap comic book.

I like that. I like that I can look at other folks and make decisions based on what they have or haven't done.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#515 - 2015-07-30 15:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Freya Sertan wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Generally people of the HTFU community go on about what they call bears as if they have no idea at all about the game, a killboard on a main often indicates that they have been partaking of the game, be it kills and losses and I have both, so when someone without any kills or losses starts going off on the game mechanics on his main I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.


Dracvlad wrote:

ahh Freya Sertan thats another dead horse, perhaps better described as a dead donkey.


I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.

Really?


I was referring to Jonah, as you have losses on your KB, still at the end of my exchange with Jonah I did acknowledge that he had a certain level of knowledge but for me the value of what he said was diluted, but I still will read his views.

You on the other hand are out and about doing stuff but you have limited experience, and yet you make sarky comments, so I just pointed out that you ain't going to be taken serious if you have a KB that compares to what you refer as a bear. I suggested that you should go get some kills...

Freya Sertan wrote:
Words upon words of tripe unrelated to anything is valueless. Next time, pick a better strawman.


Big smileWhat?LolRoll

Come back when you have killed something in game...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#516 - 2015-07-30 16:23:42 UTC
Killboards aren't a record of ALL types of pvp. They don't show ransoms, they don't show ships built, ore mined, items stolen, corps infiltrated, or many other types of PVP. It doesn't show sites explored, scams completed, recruits hired, or blueprints researched.it doesn't show ships saved from logistics. No LP gained.

You see the trend?

The human problem, as you are correct in pointing out, have come to value a pilot based on killboard stats. Therefore, more players focus on KB stats over making isk or content. The value is only as much as the player base makes it.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Paranoid Loyd
#517 - 2015-07-30 16:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Heh, my lowsec noob has a kb that displays 0-8 and looks completely incompetent at a glance, I assure you she is not and have even had conversations post fight where the victim mentioned he looked at my KB and thought he had an easy kill.
In a game designed for deception, taking anything at face value is foolish.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#518 - 2015-07-30 16:59:06 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Killboards are the worst thing to happen to EVE.

Efficiency on killboards is the worst thing to happen to eve. I like the idea of them as an intel gathering tool

Problem is the repercussions they have on player mentality. It's inevitable, because humans.


It leads to crap like this.

https://zkillboard.com/character/720371319/

For the love of god.
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#519 - 2015-07-30 17:10:06 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

Generally people of the HTFU community go on about what they call bears as if they have no idea at all about the game, a killboard on a main often indicates that they have been partaking of the game, be it kills and losses and I have both, so when someone without any kills or losses starts going off on the game mechanics on his main I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.


Dracvlad wrote:

ahh Freya Sertan thats another dead horse, perhaps better described as a dead donkey.


I merely asked him if he had the experience to make such judgements.

Really?


I was referring to Jonah, as you have losses on your KB, still at the end of my exchange with Jonah I did acknowledge that he had a certain level of knowledge but for me the value of what he said was diluted, but I still will read his views.

You on the other hand are out and about doing stuff but you have limited experience, and yet you make sarky comments, so I just pointed out that you ain't going to be taken serious if you have a KB that compares to what you refer as a bear. I suggested that you should go get some kills...

Freya Sertan wrote:
Words upon words of tripe unrelated to anything is valueless. Next time, pick a better strawman.


Big smileWhat?LolRoll

Come back when you have killed something in game...


And everyone else, along with myself, suggested to you that KBs mean less than nothing when it comes to knowledge of a game/playstyle. You assume that since I have no kills on a KB that I am unversed in PVP or EvE in general to such an extent that I cannot offer any opposing words to your obviously wrong standpoint.

...'kay. That tells me all I need to know. Well that and the ridiculous 315315 bounty you gave me in game. I'm still pissed about that ******* up my 133,333,337 bounty.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#520 - 2015-07-30 23:19:57 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:

The human problem, as you are correct in pointing out, have come to value a pilot based on killboard stats.


He doesn't actually do that, though. It's merely the latest example of his hypocrisy. It's his attempt to devalue people who do a lot of activity on alts, such as most gankers.

Meanwhile, if he actually valued killboards even a fifth as much as he claims he does, he would bow down and worship TCE. But he's just a hypocrite trying to troll his betters.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.