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Aegis sov release - General feedback

First post
Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#61 - 2015-07-27 02:00:52 UTC
Marcius Decimus wrote:
I have had two experiences with the capture the flag mechanic for grabbing a system or defending, and multiple little skirmishes with folks trying to hack a station service.

I am not sure yet how I feel about the whole system, but one thing I definitely think needs to happen is that running an entosis link should be like a cyno or entering into siege mode. You should not be able to warp off until you cancel an entosis link and then wait out a timer.

But it does work just like a cyno or siege mode - As soon as the cycle ends, you can warp off.

What you are really asking for is a timer so you CAN'T warp off when the cycle ends.
I disagree with that idea but do think an active entosis link should work like bastion or siege mode in that, the ship needs to be stopped and remain stationary for the duration of the cycle.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Marcius Decimus
BLISSA CORP
#62 - 2015-07-28 00:03:06 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Marcius Decimus wrote:
I have had two experiences with the capture the flag mechanic for grabbing a system or defending, and multiple little skirmishes with folks trying to hack a station service.

I am not sure yet how I feel about the whole system, but one thing I definitely think needs to happen is that running an entosis link should be like a cyno or entering into siege mode. You should not be able to warp off until you cancel an entosis link and then wait out a timer.

But it does work just like a cyno or siege mode - As soon as the cycle ends, you can warp off.

What you are really asking for is a timer so you CAN'T warp off when the cycle ends.
I disagree with that idea but do think an active entosis link should work like bastion or siege mode in that, the ship needs to be stopped and remain stationary for the duration of the cycle.


Yup, better stated than I. But i also think the timer should start when you stop the link, not the remaining cycle time.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#63 - 2015-07-29 12:00:39 UTC
Marcius Decimus wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Marcius Decimus wrote:
I have had two experiences with the capture the flag mechanic for grabbing a system or defending, and multiple little skirmishes with folks trying to hack a station service.

I am not sure yet how I feel about the whole system, but one thing I definitely think needs to happen is that running an entosis link should be like a cyno or entering into siege mode. You should not be able to warp off until you cancel an entosis link and then wait out a timer.

But it does work just like a cyno or siege mode - As soon as the cycle ends, you can warp off.

What you are really asking for is a timer so you CAN'T warp off when the cycle ends.
I disagree with that idea but do think an active entosis link should work like bastion or siege mode in that, the ship needs to be stopped and remain stationary for the duration of the cycle.


Yup, better stated than I. But i also think the timer should start when you stop the link, not the remaining cycle time.

I think you would find, a ship being immobile during its final cycle would remove a lot of the insta warp ceptor issues.
The biggest problem now is, you can align and be ready to warp BEFORE the cycle ends, which makes catching those using entosis links much harder.
It is an unfair advantage gifted to those who really don't want to contest sov but simply grief the sov holder by RFing their stuff.
If those same players were at risk of being caught (had real consequences) due to their actions, a lot of the straight out griefing would just go away.

I don't see this changing, without the griefers, sov would very quickly become a stagnant little PVE haven. Griefers right now are really the only ones creating any sort of conflict because taking sov, due to way too much commitment in time, with little to no benefit for "winning" is just not worth it.
This new sov suits the griefers, they don't want the sov, most don't even want to risk PVP, they simply want to mess with others with as little risk as possible - Hence, warp core stab fits and ceptors are the popular meta.



My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#64 - 2015-08-02 03:04:03 UTC
What is the real goal in all this?

1 - Bring more players into null sec?
2 - Take players away from null sec to hs?
3 - Give new authorized bots to corporations?

If somebody think that the players who have left the game will come back now with this whole mess that is the new sov mechanics, that will not going to happen, expect to see more players left the game and tons of trials, yes, trials are just trials and are free for 30 days, after that new trial until they really give up.

About bring more players into null, well that is possible but not with this new sov.
People likes a place they can call home and a place that cant be taked away or disrupted all the time, again this new sov dosent give opportunities like CCP says to small entities but are going to destroy that small entities en a short time.
Guess dev´s have been looking other way during this years, and now they want to deliver content without the previous work.
Null sec as nothing to do with low sec, so introducing the factional warfare into null was a shot on his foot like some others (wormholes, industry, mining ihub upgrades changes, etc).

CCP talks about unused space. What unused space? That systems that nobody wants? Thats why those systems are empty, they have nothing -0.1,-0.2 has nothing except belts to mine, dosent provide good ratting you know that? You want small entities to compete with large alliances? You know they cant right? So what the point?
Do you remember when you change the ihub upgrades system? Yeah, some upgrades just dosent work, at least for the upgraded system. I remember to fill a petition about that upgrades telling that in 2 or 3 months with them installed we get only 3 anomalies and 2 were low sec anomalies, and the other constellation systems has 2/3/4 anomalies almost all day except my system, can you remember uour answer? Was something like "work as intended", however wormholes we get tons, almost one all days, we dont put that upgrade you know?

So if you want more players on null, i suggest that first change the sov mechanics to a new one (please dont copy nothing, just make a new one), until that make some transition without entosis (i.e.rent the space with one or more npc corps and you´ll see the alliances leaving unused space and some more), give mobility to sub-caps at least, nobody goes to null without their stuff, make sure all systems worth in all ways and not in one only, the upgrades should upgrade the system where they are installed and not the constellation, its not fair to anyone upgrade the system and have almost none anomalies, change the quantum flux generator to one structure that afects only the system where he is and put it as a warpable beacon so neighbors know and be aware.
Null sec market never worked except on CFC side, and that is just because they are heavilly militarized, as you know you dont see that in any other region and expect not to see ever unless everybody could have a place that they call home and will not be lost, thats what happen with CFC regions, they can be bothered but not conquered, they can lose some fights but they will win the war.
Its time for changes yes, however bad changes and bad decisions ruin the game and of course your pockets.

Structures to mine for what? That is a bot, you banned the players for boting and now you are going to provide one for corps? Let me guess, the miners warpout to another game, thats the way!
In you publicity you tell people that they can do whatever they want, ehen they come to game they realize that they can do whatever others want and let them do.
Destructible stations (citadels) that is for what? Maybe for CFC region, there they are undestructibles but only there. cant you think in somethin better, after all where you want players? In null or hs?

Before this changes they dock and dont fight, after the changes are the same, what have changed? Now they can disruot daily activities and make the corps spend money on ihub´s, upgrades and sov units, just because they can disrupt daily activities and not taking the sov, they dont want the sov, they just want to waste others time, then you see people leaving null sec all days, is really this the way you want for Eve?
Before we see huge fights and huge capital fights, now we only see frigs, frigs ftw, if its frig fights that people want, they can easily find that in low sec FW and they dont need to make 50 jumps just for a fight. I see someone in the forum ask for something to get on fights faster (maybe you can present them with a move me to system x).

John Wolfcastle
Mining and Industry Society.
#65 - 2015-08-02 08:14:38 UTC
I must say, that since the new sov mechanics happened, Nullsec actually became more interesting to me. I recently joined a corp that is going to take a jump into null and I feel the new system from my out-of-highsec-view is very entertaining. It also seems to me, that players are not those "F1 Drones" anymore but instead have to use more of those solo pvp skills (which I also don't have 'yet').
As I said, I'm not in the null yet, but most of the negative comments seem to go on the stuck idea, that big fleets are THE thing to defend or attack.
What I can confirm is that Null logistics is hard, would there have been not the jumpfreighter. Small entities may be able to get a system under their control, but these systems are probably unused and without a station. But yet, for a small entity, this is it. They have a system, a home, a place to be and to go for ratting, although this aint the big fishes in nullsec. Big alliances should actually stop to kill every little ship or group and therefore kill the incomming population that is trying to move in Nullsec.

So to close this rather confusing post of me (just want to express my opinion) here my results for the new sov mechanics:
I like the timewindow thing, I like the way a big fleet is not "the way to be", I think certain other debuffs have to happen to ships with enthosis links active (maybe small speed debuff?), I dislike the need for jumpfreighters to get logistics going.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-08-03 15:11:48 UTC
Alundil
Rolled Out
#67 - 2015-08-05 03:31:19 UTC
DAE find it odd that there are only 4 pages of comment/feedback/issues with the Aegis release?

I'm right behind you

Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#68 - 2015-08-05 13:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Alundil wrote:
DAE find it odd that there are only 4 pages of comment/feedback/issues with the Aegis release?


The reason is simple. For the vast majority of eve players - those that live everywhere else in eve other then null, fozziesov, which is the only significant feature of aegis, is a none issue. Now the icon changes which were in the previous update, generated 100s of pages of comments because they effected everyone.

BTW the icons still suck and are detrimental to the game.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#69 - 2015-08-08 20:03:14 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Alundil wrote:
DAE find it odd that there are only 4 pages of comment/feedback/issues with the Aegis release?


The reason is simple. For the vast majority of eve players - those that live everywhere else in eve other then null, fozziesov, which is the only significant feature of aegis, is a none issue. Now the icon changes which were in the previous update, generated 100s of pages of comments because they effected everyone.

BTW the icons still suck and are detrimental to the game.



Yeah, those icons are really another example of a bad choice, if CCP let choose the icons at least, i will choose the old one´s, its like the new map, I dont use it, better look, to slow and to much floating.
My gues is that they are competing to see which team can do the worst work...
dancing ninja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2015-08-12 23:08:50 UTC
I like the concept of fozzie sov but i believe it needs some tweaks. I dont like that 1 pilot can do 12 minutes of work and cause an alliance to do 2 hours of work. I get that we are suppose to live in the space to make it easier to own but it makes dealing with a sov transfer (which is no longer a feature in game) extremely hard.

One possible change to strike a better balance between controlling more space than you can use and having to spend all your time just trying to keep indexs up.

If a system has a maxed index then any further progress of that index should spread into an adjacent system that you own. Diminishing returns would help strike a good balance. No one wants to be forced to rat in a poor system without a station when you have better true sec and a station next door. It could be something like 80% transfers 1 system. Once the nearby system is maxed then 50% would transfer two systems away, then 20% goes 3 systems. I wouldnt go any farther than that. The numbers are just guesses but pass a logic test.

I think some projection of indexs would help while still giving smaller groups a chance to control areas in null sec that arent used by the big power blocs. It would help get indexs up in pipeline system before ratting pockets.
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2015-08-18 16:39:55 UTC
Pah Cova wrote:
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Alundil wrote:
DAE find it odd that there are only 4 pages of comment/feedback/issues with the Aegis release?


The reason is simple. For the vast majority of eve players - those that live everywhere else in eve other then null, fozziesov, which is the only significant feature of aegis, is a none issue. Now the icon changes which were in the previous update, generated 100s of pages of comments because they effected everyone.

BTW the icons still suck and are detrimental to the game.



Yeah, those icons are really another example of a bad choice, if CCP let choose the icons at least, i will choose the old one´s, its like the new map, I dont use it, better look, to slow and to much floating.
My gues is that they are competing to see which team can do the worst work...




Someone was powerful enough to pretty much cause CCP to ignore the players on test when they pointed out the graphics issues, and continue to ignore the rest of the player base later.

A little tweaking was done to make npcs a teal color, but the rest of the promised polish was then dropped in silence. There's really more that could be done to make the overview icons better for the players.

CCP, this still needs work. Lines could be a bit more discernible as an example, but other work could also be done. The players may have 'given up' and endure it, but it isn't a positive part of the CCP-player relationship.
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
Red Serpent Alliance
#72 - 2015-08-18 17:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Orm Magnustat
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
Alundil wrote:
DAE find it odd that there are only 4 pages of comment/feedback/issues with the Aegis release?


The reason is simple. For the vast majority of eve players - those that live everywhere else in eve other then null, fozziesov, which is the only significant feature of aegis, is a none issue. Now the icon changes which were in the previous update, generated 100s of pages of comments because they effected everyone.

BTW the icons still suck and are detrimental to the game.


xactly ....

I wasnt really involved in sov gameplay before, so how would i pour my energy into that issue - though if I have to say something about it, it would have to be that this new Fozzie sov really took away the chance that i would EVER get involved in sov matters.

The old system at least could could raise some fascination and interest - none of that with the new, only anticipated annoyance and non-immersion.....

Even worse, now they plan to bring that stupid entosis **** to every structure (even in our wh where the concept of sov doesnt even exist) and I seriously have to ask myself if I stil have a place in this universe (and for how long).

You really have to wonder about the structures in CCP corporation, that allow such developments practically unchecked for almost a year now. Question


edit: and yes, you are right about the new icons too ...
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#73 - 2015-09-08 19:40:15 UTC
dancing ninja wrote:
I like the concept of fozzie sov but i believe it needs some tweaks. I dont like that 1 pilot can do 12 minutes of work and cause an alliance to do 2 hours of work. I get that we are suppose to live in the space to make it easier to own but it makes dealing with a sov transfer (which is no longer a feature in game) extremely hard.


Therein lies the problem with Fozziesov. If we were real world space-pioneers then carving out a home for ourselves on the frontiers of space would be the natural thing to do. But we're not, we're gamers and we're out here mainly because we like big fights. Big fights can't occur when your neighbour is in a different time zone to your alliance and you can't leave your home for fear of a single interceptor pilot knocking your entire space in to reinforced mode and potentially taking it from you. Even when you do have someone to attack, the vast majority of the fleet you raise sits there twiddling their thumbs whilst your ceptors are out entosising command nodes. At least in Dominion Sov you felt part of the action, even if it meant grinding through Hit Points. In fozziesov the vast majority of players are detached from the actual process of contesting the sov which leads to intensely boring gameplay.

We need to be able to leave our space, comfortable in the knowledge that it cannot be lost without a concerted effort by the enemy. This sov needs to be able to generate large fights rather than trollceptors running around causing mayhem with no intentions of ever showing up for a fight. Every member of the fleet needs to feel engaged in the process somehow so that they actually feel like they're doing something worth logging on for and until these changes happen, more and more players will cease to log in and subscriber numbers will fall.

As a suggestion that I've admittedly not given a great deal of thought (it just occurred to me whilst writing this post), one possible way of combating this would be to place incomprehensibly long entosis timers on structures, so as to deter the trollceptor pilots, but allow multiple entosis links to target the same structure and thus speed up the process. Think of it as HP grinding without the grind. You'd need an organised fleet to contest sov and it's not something many would undertake on a whim and would generate larger fights once more.

I'm probably missing something obvious, like I said I just thought of it now but the bottom line is unless something changes, null sec will die and take a great many of your customers with it.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.

Jeven HouseBenyo
Vanity Thy Name Is
#74 - 2015-09-08 22:52:51 UTC
Since CCP is very pointedly ignoring their customer base again with silence on replying, I'll toss my Sov request into the thread.

I too would like a return of the NeoCon Sov button (along with the button choice at the bottom of system window) that sorted from system/constellation/region/world/etc. Why?

Gave quick peek info on ship losses and pod kills so I knew if that system was not a reliable flight path section. Roaming fleets tend to move around, that's part of roaming. What is a mostly quiet empty area can get very hopping the next login.

Showed in one easy to find and understand place, who was losing or gaining null systems for their corp/alliance. How in the Hek am I supposed to cheer and/or poke fun at my usual chat tab peeps on gains and losses when I have to deal with out of game sites or 3rd party tools to get that same info?

Did not rely on 3rd party tools to get this info. Come on, every update leads to killboard messes. Does CCP really want so many things out of their hands and in the software crunching digits of mostly unknowns? (see the lack of reply on my Support Ticket since you've outsourced Support as why this could be a bad idea...)

It kinda looked cool, and was one of the FEW things in Eve that was *gasp!* streamlined and easy to use/understand. Very KISS, suggest to CCP you take a longer look at the idea.

>Jeven

Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.

'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.

Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.

Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P

No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.