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Changing mining and manufacturing for more fairness and social justice
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Marcus Henik
Rules of Acquisition
#21 - 2011-12-08 03:22:51 UTC
Troll score 7/10.
Skorpynekomimi
#22 - 2011-12-08 07:17:33 UTC
Chores? In my EVE?

Do not want. This isn't ******* farmville. I want the freedom to be able to goof off EVE and grind skyrim for a few weeks.

Economic PVP
Lori Toucard
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-12-08 08:52:08 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Chores? In my EVE?

Do not want. This isn't ******* farmville. I want the freedom to be able to goof off EVE and grind skyrim for a few weeks.


The new and better system of social justice will make sure that you still enjoy the freedom of not mining the ore and thinking only about yourself.
But on the other side it will deduct a few ISK from your wallet for every month you chose to be an egoist.
This way you help new players out who are less fortunate and greedy than you.
They have to mine very hard, are oppressed by suicide gankers and greedy traders and industrialists who keep the prices of minerals down and make the big cash on the back of those poor people.
Only a heartless person could go playing skyrim without thinking about this problems.


Mistress of Social Justice
Arcan Winter
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2011-12-08 09:17:13 UTC
Well make it fair to all, if you have the isk (if you sell oll you have) to buy a Hulk. When you should at least once a week engage an a PvP fight in a ship worth at least 50m. Afte all we need to think on all those poor PvP that cant find targets in low/null....if a few 100k mpre ships should be in PvP each mounth they should be happy too.

About poor miners, blame the drone regions in null and all bot miners that mine for 20+h aday but are only at teh keyboard 5 min a day
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-12-08 09:37:04 UTC
The Caldari won't stand for this.

Just sayin...

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Keltaris Cesaille
Doomheim
#26 - 2011-12-08 09:46:34 UTC
OCCUPY JITA 4-4
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-12-08 09:58:13 UTC
The short version: No.

The less short version: That would mean CCP would violate their own EULA, so no.

The long version: No. By forcing people to participate in activities they do not enjoy, you deprive them of their enjoyment of the game, which is in direct violation with the EULA. Anyone who has actually been insane or bored enough to read it (I was both) would know that it outright says that doing anything to any other player, which deprives them of enjoyment of the game, is a bannable offense. And yet we have suicide ganking and piracy...

Another detail you probably didn't take into consideration is that if everyone had to mine, the market would die a horrible, quick and painful death (that's not me being dramatic. It's true). On one hand, if all the ore mined goes straight into the market, the prices would drop to something equal to the price of sand in Sahara, and if all the extra ore was taxed away, we would see the prices sky-rocket in just a matter of days, due to the belts being emptied faster yet the amount of ore on the market would remain the same. So for all intents and purposes, this would ruin the game for the majority of the player-base. Just saying.

Furthermore, as Arcan Winter says, this would mean that everyone would be forced to PVP once a week. What about those who can't PVP? There are players who don't have the skills for PVP, and then there are players with maxed out skills for several types of ships and PVP-gear. How would those with no PVP-skills stand a chance if they were to be forced into PVP every week? Easy. They wouldn't. And they would leave.

If you really want this, I suggest you go find a null-sec alliance with mandatory Ops. It wouldn't ruin the game for the rest of the player-base, and it certainly won't kill the market either, plus you get the mandatory activities you want.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#28 - 2011-12-08 11:10:12 UTC
Anshio -- IIRC, the EULA is a little more specific than "deprives someone of enjoyment" ... since that would probably invalidate everyone from issuing wardecs (which are completely valid), or scamming, or the other stuff you mentioned.

Pretty much it boils down to "if what you're doing gets petitioned, you're gonna have a problem" ... now obviously, if you're a merc and are being paid to wardec every corp that SomeGuy2001 joins because he stole from IndustryCorporation234541... well, that's cool.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Joshua Aivoras
Tech IV Industries
#29 - 2011-12-08 12:05:27 UTC
Lori Toucard wrote:
Hello my fellow EVE players.

I want to introduce you to my concept, that will make EVE a more fair and enjoyable place for everyone.

1) Mining
After trying some mining i noticed that mainly poor players have to mine, this is very unfair.
CCP could force anyone to mine a certain amount of ore per month to contribute to the community and pay their fair share.
If they refuse to mine their amount of ore, the value x1 will be deducted from their wallet at the end of the month at the first offence.
When they dont meet their goals at the second month too (assuming active sub) the value x 2 will be deducted and so on.

What happens with the ISK?
We have to form a committee of social justice that will be elected by the players and confirmed by CCP, just like the CSM.
The money will be distributed each month between all the players that meet the ore delivery goals and a special point system.
You earn points for:
1) Fighting against discrimination and climate change
2) By participating in social justice events
This way the fresh and poor players get a real isk boost by proving ore to the community, that we all need.

2) Manufacturing
It is horrible to watch how manufacturers get richer and richer each day, while the poor players are suffering.
The big guys need to pay their fair share by contributing every 2nd item at of the same kind they manufacture to the community at production cost.
The committee of social justice will then use the point system to decide who is the person in need who receives the item at production cost.

3) Trading
Jita Traders are the richest of the rich in EVE and they pay nothing back to the community.
CCP could easily implement another 5% tax on sales on characters that are flagged as traders (turnover over 1 billion isk per day for more than 30 days total in a 3 month period), just like the current 1% tax.
This 5% of every sale will be distributed between all new players and the top 1000 in the social justice points ranking list.

I know all changes i suggest may sound radical on the first read, but please think about it and you will realize that it would turn EVE in a better place for all of us.

Thank you for reading


1) Nobody is forced to mine anything, and that should remain unchanged. If you need minerals just buy them from the market.

2) If your not sporting an extra chromosome, manufacturing is the second easiest way to make ISK, next to station-trading.

3) Traders actually provide liquidity to the economy


Please stop giving the PvP'ers more reasons to call us Carebears, thanks.

95% of the players are loving EVE, the other 5%? On the forums.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#30 - 2011-12-08 13:50:49 UTC
In Soviet EvE, 'roid mines you.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#31 - 2011-12-08 14:33:10 UTC
To the one suggesting no production of t1 items after 6 months...

Who will make the battlecruisers and battleships? Those are t1 and require a large amount of isk for the blueprint. What if the prototype cloaking device which takes a fair bit of skills to research or copy, the same with mobile warp disruptors or pos mods?

Still, this would kill all capital ships at least. They are all t1 and... Well... Hmmm... Maybe this idea has some merit.... Oh wait, someday I want to fly a carrier, so no.
Jurinak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2011-12-08 15:14:33 UTC
And everyone who dont agree will sent to the Gulag

Viva la Revolution! Smash the Capitalist. All Force to the People

HOHOHO Chi MINH!!!!!!
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#33 - 2011-12-08 15:34:15 UTC
I can't believe that someone would speak out against my raping and pillaging of the peasantry. What is the world coming to when a well to do gentle man can't exploit his fellow pod pilots for a handsome profit? Poppycock I say!
Avril Tennison
EVE University
Ivy League
#34 - 2011-12-08 16:25:00 UTC
I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more t han 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.

Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.

+1 this idea
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#35 - 2011-12-08 16:31:40 UTC
Avril Tennison wrote:
I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more t han 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.

Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.

+1 this idea


You are way off. Gains from investment are taxed at a lower rate than income. Obama wants income from investment to be taxed at the same rate as income from working.

In eve terms this would be similar to wanting to add a tax on datacore purchased from an agent comparable to the tax rate on say killing a rat with a bounty.
Kaomi Zorbaz
Claint Industries
#36 - 2011-12-08 20:06:22 UTC
Please wont anybody think of the miners?
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#37 - 2011-12-08 20:18:40 UTC
for justice

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Lori Toucard
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-12-08 20:25:32 UTC
Avril Tennison wrote:
I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more than 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.

Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.

+1 this idea


There need to be more good people like you who still have a heart and dont listen to the propaganda we are told all day.

Our Empires will go down in flames if we dont learn to value the work of the struggling poor man.
Yesterday a trader made 5 billion isk typing in a few numbers in orders in Jita. This cant be fair.
A Miner mining in a Bestower for 1 million isk per hour needs to work 5,000 hours or 500 days @10 hours per day if he wants to earn the same amount, this is unacceptable, and everyone knows this.
If the trader pays 50% (2.5b) isk tax on his profits and the miner pays 5 million isk tax on his 10m earning for the day, we can just pool the money and share it equally. This way the trader will still have 2.5 billion isk which is more than he needs, and the miner can be rich too, getting the other 2.5b isk.
The solutions are there, open your eyes people. Lets do it. We can do it together.

Mistress of Social Justice
Jurinak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2011-12-09 13:12:29 UTC
Lori Toucard wrote:
[quote=Avril Tennison]
The solutions are there, open your eyes people. Lets do it. We can do it together.


First we should ask if it is the will of god.

Dont you think the lord will give the miner some ideas to make much more money if he want? And if we give the miner the money and act against the will of god, isnt it the path of the devil??

After all i dont think its a good idea to follow the path of the devil *burns his red flag*
Velicitia
XS Tech
#40 - 2011-12-09 14:19:32 UTC
Lori Toucard wrote:
Avril Tennison wrote:
I completely agree. There are certainly rich players (more than 2 billion isk) that SHOULD to pay their fair share to help new poor players.

Here in America Obama wants over 50% tax for the rich so something like this in game seems reasonable.

+1 this idea


There need to be more good people like you who still have a heart and dont listen to the propaganda we are told all day.

Our Empires will go down in flames if we dont learn to value the work of the struggling poor man.
Yesterday a trader made 5 billion isk typing in a few numbers in orders in Jita. This cant be fair.
A Miner mining in a Bestower for 1 million isk per hour needs to work 5,000 hours or 500 days @10 hours per day if he wants to earn the same amount, this is unacceptable, and everyone knows this.
If the trader pays 50% (2.5b) isk tax on his profits and the miner pays 5 million isk tax on his 10m earning for the day, we can just pool the money and share it equally. This way the trader will still have 2.5 billion isk which is more than he needs, and the miner can be rich too, getting the other 2.5b isk.
The solutions are there, open your eyes people. Lets do it. We can do it together.



so get into a corp and do stuff like this.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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