EVE General Discussion

Yeah, I love comparing Videogames to the real world! However: Fire, the wheel and tools are not something "given" to us by the almighty CCP god. We made them ourselves, back then, and we still make them ourselves today.

You're both right and wrong here. Yes Eve can be brutal, unfortunately for you it's by design. CCP Falcon says it best

Eve is a complex game, it would take years to experience everything it has to offer, hence the amount of information available and the complexity of the underlying systems.

System security status is easily summed up The crimewatch system has a safety catch which is on by default, you can't shoot other players unless they are flagged for PvP until you turn it off. Some people turn it off and leave it off... for reasons.

The market isn't CCP controlled, it is a tool that has been put in our hands to use and abuse; it is also one of the most brutal forms of indirect PvP in Eve, one where amounts you as a newbie can only dream of can be wiped out in seconds by another player .

When you join a player corp you are saying to the rest of us that you are ready to leave the paddling pool and start swimming with the sharks, it's a risk you take.

I don't know the corp in question but most of the merc corps I know will help out wartarget newbies with advice if approached properly, take the opportunity to learn from them if they're willing to talk you through some basic tactics and ship fits. Banter with your opponent, contact them and see if they'll agree to more matched fights, with feedback, so that it's more fun for all involved.

You can move stuff around by employing 3rd party haulers to do the scutwork, Red Frog and PushX will move as much stuff as you have for reasonable prices; alternatively as others have suggested use NPC corp alts to move stuff, a lot of us do the same.

Scams rely on greed. "If it looks too good to be true, it's a scam" is as true in Eve as it is in real life, except in Eve even if it looks legit you double and triple check to be sure.

Highsec ganking plays a part in the economy, it generates market demand and removes Isk from circulation through destruction.

War decs, which some mistakenly equate with ganking, are an intended mechanic which is unlikely to be altered to protect new player corps, if you don't want to be wardecced, stay in an NPC corp or move to lowsec, nullsec and wh's; where everybody is trying to kill you, all of the time.

If it was easy, where would the challenge be? Even more importantly, where would the fun be?

I think, most newbies have the UI, fitting and basic controls figured out rather quickly. After all - fitting a ship and flying around is not that hard.

What they don't figure out right away, is, how to behave correctly in certain situations, how to react in PvP, how to fit well and how to deal with losses. And that's not something a tutorial can teach. Yes, there are some basic rules, that don't change that much over time: Don't dual tank, don't mix guns, don't carry overly expensive cargo. And yet I have seen dual tanked ships do very well (think of the ASB/AAR tanked Machariels in AT), some ships work well when you slap a missile launcher into the utility high. And sometimes empty freighters get ganked just because. Most of the other rules are not nearly as obvious and universal, as the meta can change rapidly. So he most important things can only ever be taught by players, not by a tutorial.

World of Warcraft doesn't teach you how to beat the FOTM Dungeon Boss, it doesn't teach you how to play the Auction House or how to win an Arena Match either. Players have to learn that on their own and by listening to more experienced players. Yet it's the most successful MMOG ever, and will be for quite a while.

So the bottom line is: Get newbies involved with other players - it's the only way to reliably teach them, what they need to know. I think, a "Looking for Mentor/Mentee" System similar to the Corp finder might not be all that terrible.



That's exactly the wrong direction, as the Vets are the ones that can teach them the ropes of surviving in Eve.

Have you ever tried convoing the guy that just blew you out of your ship and asking nicely how he did it and what you could have done to avoid it? You might be surprised. I did it a lot way back when, it worked rather well and I'd be surprised should it not still work today.

Teach newbies to do that, and a big part of the problem will go away.


The main problem with your idea is, that in Eve, you don't learn jack without doing whatever you want to learn. If you shield newbies from the real game, they won't learn the real game. They will learn a dumbed down version, and will still be as clueless once they get dropped into the cold water that is Eve Online afterwards. So you can postpone the "cultural shock", but you cannot prevent it.

Maybe CCP should focus on "fixing" the players instead of fixing the game...


Apply Patch to Brain?

[PROCEED] [CANCEL]


Guess the discussion wether to adapt the game to its players or adapt the players to the game gets not solved today...
o7

However, fixing that would mean making a different game, because Eve basically means pissing into each other's Cheerios bowls. Can't teach boxing whithout punches.

If "fixing" the game means breaking the game, then yes - that may be the way to go. A brainpatch may not even be needed. That's where having a Mentor system may be useful. Or just make "talk to a player, ask dumb questions, be an adorable newbro" part of the early tutorial.

Edit: Maybe add a warning: "Attention! You will now be talking to people. If you find people in general repelling, please unsub."

Problem with such system is the risk it include. If the guy answering the question gets nothing out of it, you can trust the EVE community to be able to find way to profit from it at the cost of others. Newbies definately don't need to be "screwed" over any more than the basic games rules do by making them enter a vicious FFA sandbox. If the "official" training system when you get info is giving you BS or downright destructive info, you are in for quite some bad results.

You are only stupid for raging at something irrelevant if you know it's irrelevant. Even IRL we see people rage for the stupidest reason which continue until someone find a way to make them see why it's stupid. Some people can enver be convinced but some can. Can we convince some would-be EVE player that EVE isn't : "A ******* BS game where people are just out to get ME."???

I'm not saying it would work but the people crying EVE is dieing might wanna try it. It still help more than another forum thread...