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Every MMO is first a solo game.

First post
Author
Falken Falcon
#41 - 2015-07-13 06:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Deleted

Aye, Sea Turtles

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#42 - 2015-07-13 06:24:42 UTC
Falken Falcon wrote:
Deleted

+1
...oh, I thought you meant the thread.

I'm in it for the money

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#43 - 2015-07-13 06:26:49 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.



Are your enemies on your teamspeak server too?

Yes.

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#44 - 2015-07-13 07:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
DaReaper wrote:
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.

EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.
*cough* bullshit.
That's not at all what they state. What they stated was that people who didn't interact with the game were more likely to quit, with things such as using the market classed as interacting with the game. Plenty of players play solo but interact with people through systems like the market and contracts and passive competition. This is the problem when CCP hand out stats, people misunderstand them then go running off down the road screaming absolute nonsense as if it's truth.

He's right in one sense that there's too much focus being given to single styles of play. In a sandbox people are supposed to play however they want. Taking content and forcing it to be played in one way is stripping the sandbox away, no matter what their reasoning.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong though, group PvE is needed, they just have to be pretty careful about how they weigh it in.

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Falken Falcon
#45 - 2015-07-13 07:21:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
CCP's own documents state if you solo play eve you are 80% likely to quit after 3 months. So whatever argument you state past that is utterly moot.

And by solo, they mean not join a corp and play alone.

Joining a corp increases you staying to something like 10% you will leave after 3 months.

EVE is not a solo game, and it should not be a solo game. That simple. You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone. Giving more chances for corp and alliance play as a group is not a bad thing. Other mmo';s have this type of stuff in the form of raids.

And i did not read your post btw op.
*cough* bullshit.
That's not at all what they state. What they stated was that people who didn't interact with the game were more likely to quit, with things such as using the market classed as interacting with the game. Plenty of players play solo but interact with people through systems like the market and contracts and passive competition. This is the problem when CCP hand out stats, people misunderstand them then go running off down the road screaming absolute nonsense as if it's truth.

He's right in one sense that there's too much focus being given to single styles of play. In a sandbox people are supposed to play however they want. Taking content and forcing it to be played in one way is stripping the sandbox away, no matter what their reasoning.
There is a difference between nurturing and removing. CCP nurtures the playstyles those that will be beneficial to the game. They are not removing solo stuff. Just giving some love to group activities as eve in a social game, want it to be or not.

Aye, Sea Turtles

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#46 - 2015-07-13 08:44:43 UTC
One thing I want is a mission type that requires you to fleet up to do it and have it in hisec., we go and do level 4's together at times but its so easy its more like we see who can blap the most per room or who can get the last blow in. And no I do not want to do this in low sec or 0.0 before the normal cretins start mentioning level 5's in low sec.

My point of view is that if you give some multi-player content in safer areas that is more accessible then the elitist Incursions you will push more people to work together and get into the multi-player game quicker. But CCP seems to miss the obvious... and listens to the cretins...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-07-13 09:16:45 UTC
Invalid. The other games aren't really MMOs, they just abuse the name to give the illusion of playing with hundreds of others while you actually play alone and have no influence on the world or its inhabitants. Therefore the thread is invalid as these games aren't comparable to EVE ONLINE anyway.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-07-13 09:27:10 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone.


Based on my own experience, after 4 years in the game, and having been in multiple corps, I have to disagree with you on this point. It took me a while but I realised that I enjoy this game way more playing solo.

As for OP, deal with it. CCP shouldn't change the game to suit you.

You're not playing solo. You chat in local a lot and when you gank, you don't play solo either. You play with others. Doesn't matter if they want to play with you or not. As you gank them, you play with them.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#49 - 2015-07-13 09:45:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
One thing I want is a mission type that requires you to fleet up to do it and have it in hisec., we go and do level 4's together at times but its so easy its more like we see who can blap the most per room or who can get the last blow in. And no I do not want to do this in low sec or 0.0 before the normal cretins start mentioning level 5's in low sec.

My point of view is that if you give some multi-player content in safer areas that is more accessible then the elitist Incursions you will push more people to work together and get into the multi-player game quicker. But CCP seems to miss the obvious... and listens to the cretins...


I guess you guys could try running level 4s in assault frigates or something. Some of the cosmos and storyline stuff in hisec is harder than lvl 4s I hear. I still haven't tried any of them though. Not much into missions.

Trouble with making harder group content for hisec is that you would expect it to pay more. But more pay is supposed to come with more risk. And players will min max the crap out of things in hisec. I suppose CCP could ban battleships from lvl 4s like they banned T3s from 4/10s. :P Then add some sort of hisec version of lvl 5s for battleships. Then you'd get more fleeting up for both 4s and 5s.
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2015-07-13 09:49:50 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
I'm concerned.

The foundation of every MMO is solo play.

But what tends to happen is people see Multiplayer and assume that everyone wants to form gangs.

It's absolutely not true.

We can see that echoed in this dev blog...

"We have never been particularly satisfied with how the majority of Sov upgrade PVE content tends to lean towards solo or multibox play. "

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-of-sov-nullsec-pve-and-upgrades/

~~~

What tends to happen next is that rewards for gangs (usually of five) gaming is overly rewarded, in a shabby attempt to get players to network and bring in their friends.

And the attempt fails because it denies player choice. It forces playstyle.

The only time the sandbox should be fully enclosed is for PvP.

People love fair fights. You can see that in the success of Starcraft and League of Legends etc. Even numbers and so on.

But making solo players become second class because they choose not to enjoy forced playstyles doesn't work. EVE Online will keep them, because they tend to be fantastically loyal, but it will reinforce a community division.

So if CCP decides to bring in "rewarding" group play, then we can expect forum wars over the topic. Because as CCP admit, people do like solo play, even if they have to multibox to do it.

That love of solo play is the same for every MMO.

So what might be best is to make sure every player can enjoy every aspect of the game solo, and perhaps with some sort of modular design allow that to escalate to groups, if players choose.

But hey, what do I know.

Although I will bet EVE goes with the tried and true, groups of five strangers PUG dungeon design. I wish them the success that the strategy deserves.


Can't disagree more.

Firstly, the foundation for a MMOG should allways be multiplayer. I totally agree with CCP that the PvE content in this game is allready far to focused on solo activitys. Having the option to do stuff solo when your friends are offline is a fine thing. But if your plan is to play a game 100% solo, then a MMO is probably the wrong game for you.
No one forces you into the group play. Its not like there are OP "bind on pickup" weapons that only drop from that specific "boss". We dont play THAT kind of game.

Secondly : EvEs PvP is not fair. It never was, nor does it ever want to be fair. It is the exact oposite of games like Starcraft or LoL. Thats what makes EvE so wonderfull. In EvE you dont try to win fair fights. EvE is about making the fights as unfair towards your advantige as you can.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2015-07-13 09:57:32 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


Yes because your own personal anecdote supersedes all the data CCP has.

I think we all know which person is as smart as a belt rat....well, except you. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2015-07-13 10:00:54 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.



you are the 20% that stays after 3 months =)



So is my friend in our two man corp. We actually have two real people playing two characters and no alts.


So what? 20% of the player base are solo players. Big deal.

CCP is going to focus on the 80% because that is a better strategy revenue wise.

And you call us dumb? Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-07-13 10:02:55 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.



you are the 20% that stays after 3 months =)



So is my friend in our two man corp. We actually have two real people playing two characters and no alts.


So what? 20% of the player base are solo players. Big deal.

CCP is going to focus on the 80% because that is a better strategy revenue wise.

And you call us dumb? Roll

Well for these two posts you've made I call you dumb, because you took it far more personally than you should have. And you read far more into his posts than what was actually meant or written. Nice work. Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2015-07-13 10:06:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I have a corp with four of my own characters in it.

Sometimes I make them talk to each other in corp chat. So, am I a multiplayer or a solo player? Or just off the deep end?


I think we'd need some input from your psychiatrist to answer that one. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-07-13 10:10:47 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
One thing I want is a mission type that requires you to fleet up to do it and have it in hisec.,


these things are available in low and null because it gives people the encouragment to explore different areas, lets just all cram everything into highsec, lvl 5's, 10/10's, pirate missions, sleeper sites etc just to keep people who dont have balls to go and explore happy.

man up, fleet up and go do lvl 5's

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-07-13 10:11:12 UTC
Saying you only want fair fights is basically crying about ever losing.

Some of you kids have this major superiority complex where you feel if you ever lose, something is wrong. You're right, there is something wrong. With your brain. Large portion of gamers these days are brought up on the Medal of Honor series. Where it's essentially one guy, you, Rambo-ing it up through thousands of enemies. This leads to a delusion that you're special, when you're not. You get online and play against other people and naturally you cling onto whatever excuse you can find to keep your mental equilibrium in cheque to not have to come face to face with the cold harsh reality: You're average.

Equal numbers? LoL get bent. Political saavy is a skill. Diplomacy is a skill. You're more skilled than the alliance that crushed you 5:1? In your dreams. You know how hard it is to rally a large number of people together? To hold them together? To keep internal power struggles squelched and a majority of members satisfied? No, of course you don't. You stick to small gangs because you have an incredibly obnoxious personality and most people can't stand having to associate with you, listening to your bickering, crying, and delusional excuses.

inb4 "who are you talking to?" cuz they know who they are. They'll start defending themselves without me having to name anyone, because of course I'm completely wrong and they'll have to prove it.... Because if I'm not wrong, then they are, and we all know that's not possible.

#thebest
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2015-07-13 10:14:35 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.



Are your enemies on your teamspeak server too?

Yes.


Heh...I see what you did.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-07-13 10:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone.


Based on my own experience, after 4 years in the game, and having been in multiple corps, I have to disagree with you on this point. It took me a while but I realised that I enjoy this game way more playing solo.

As for OP, deal with it. CCP shouldn't change the game to suit you.

You're not playing solo. You chat in local a lot and when you gank, you don't play solo either. You play with others. Doesn't matter if they want to play with you or not. As you gank them, you play with them.


Yeah we can argue about what solo is all day, and you are correct in your points there. I don't have anything significant to counter what you are saying.

In fairness, I was more referring to him saying I had to join a corp with others to have more fun. This is something I have disproven myself.

As for ganking, no sorry, I have changed my ways now, and will continue upon a path of peace from now on! Hehe Big smile
Falken Falcon
#59 - 2015-07-13 10:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Captain Awkward wrote:
In EvE you dont try to win fair fights. EvE is about making the fights as unfair towards your advantige as you can.

Quoted for truth and this thread seems to be getting out of hand.. So ib4l

Aye, Sea Turtles

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-07-13 10:21:12 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Saying you only want fair fights is basically crying about ever losing.

Some of you kids have this major superiority complex where you feel if you ever lose, something is wrong. You're right, there is something wrong. With your brain. Large portion of gamers these days are brought up on the Medal of Honor series. Where it's essentially one guy, you, Rambo-ing it up through thousands of enemies. This leads to a delusion that you're special, when you're not. You get online and play against other people and naturally you cling onto whatever excuse you can find to keep your mental equilibrium in cheque to not have to come face to face with the cold harsh reality: You're average.

Equal numbers? LoL get bent. Political saavy is a skill. Diplomacy is a skill. You're more skilled than the alliance that crushed you 5:1? In your dreams. You know how hard it is to rally a large number of people together? To hold them together? To keep internal power struggles squelched and a majority of members satisfied? No, of course you don't. You stick to small gangs because you have an incredibly obnoxious personality and most people can't stand having to associate with you, listening to your bickering, crying, and delusional excuses.

inb4 "who are you talking to?" cuz they know who they are. They'll start defending themselves without me having to name anyone, because of course I'm completely wrong and they'll have to prove it.... Because if I'm not wrong, then they are, and we all know that's not possible.

#thebest

It's actually easy to herd people if you bait with power, money, free playing via PLEX and instant gratification, like goons do. Same goes with herding people who like to pick on others. It depends on who you want to gather, really. The lowest scum on earth is easily gathered and kept around.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE