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Every MMO is first a solo game.

First post
Author
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#21 - 2015-07-13 01:00:30 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


I thought you enjoyed your time in BARES



I did enjoy my time in BARES but I am not a miner / industrialist. The guy who runs it is great though.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#22 - 2015-07-13 01:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Hir Miriel wrote:
People love fair fights. You can see that in the success of Starcraft and League of Legends etc. Even numbers and so on.
Wut?? Starcraft is a mmorpg? No... it's a MOBA. If you like MOBA's, go play MOBA's Straight
...I mean really, why not play your MOBA rather than insisting EVE needs to turn into a MOBA? Why does every game need to be the same? If your MOBA is so good, why are you not just playing that??

EVE is a massively-multiplayer openworld sandbox spaceship simulator, huge difference. And it's fairly an old-school one at that, one of the last remaining old-school mmo's that is still around or didn't revamp gameplay to the current fail gen of mmo's. Yep, new mmo's are designed around casual solo play, it's the hook on the line to catch the big whales that spend tens of thousands of dollars each in their f2p games.

I was at EQ1 at launch, sooooo not a solo game. But revamped and pretty much died. I was in UO it's first year, not a solo game. But revamped and pretty much died. None of which had "forced solo play", but it was far better to group than it was to solo.

For openworld mmo games there is a balance, either group play must be stronger or solo play, and there is no even balance that can be formulated. Truly successful mmo's (not just number counts) have always leaned towards groups, otherwise what is the point in even making it an mmo apart from trying to milk players for every penny that can be had?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-07-13 01:07:14 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:


The foundation of every MMO is solo play.



The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so.



PVP and solo are not at odds.


But the nature of EVE makes it hard to play solo by default. I never said anything about EVE not being soloable, but it is going to be more challenging if that's how you choose to play it. I play SWTOR, and the majority of that can be solo'd because it is every MMO. But EVE is not. That's my point. The nature of EVE is teamwork will always get you further than trying to go it alone.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#24 - 2015-07-13 01:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Tato
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:


The foundation of every MMO is solo play.



The first misconception that leads to almost every other misconception about EVE Online - EVE is not every MMO. It is unique. It is, first and above all else, a PVP game. It was designed from the outset as one, has always been intended as one, and makes no bones about being anything but a PVP game. That is the whole reason PVE is so generic and repetitive, but also, even that which appears to be PVE is still PVP by virtue of it all taking place on a single-shard player-driven environment. Deny it, hate it, whatever, that's what EVE is, and what it was designed to be. The sooner you realise and accept this, the sooner you can figure out how to enjoy yourself playing it, no matter how you choose to do so.



PVP and solo are not at odds.


But the nature of EVE makes it hard to play solo by default. I never said anything about EVE not being soloable, but it is going to be more challenging if that's how you choose to play it. I play SWTOR, and the majority of that can be solo'd because it is every MMO. But EVE is not. That's my point. The nature of EVE is teamwork will always get you further than trying to go it alone.


Yeah I played SWTOR solo all the way to the end. Fun times. I even did a ton of flashpoints solo before I knew it couldn't done.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#25 - 2015-07-13 01:42:37 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.



Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.


I thought you enjoyed your time in BARES



I did enjoy my time in BARES but I am not a miner / industrialist. The guy who runs it is great though.



then you are not a solo player. i don;t think you understand what a solo player actually is in terms of eve

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Jacques d'Orleans
#26 - 2015-07-13 01:55:46 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:

You are correct. I would rather play a single player space game but there wasn't one available.



X3: Terran conflict, X3: Albion Prelude.
I'm not sure about Elite: Dangerous, but afaik it also has a solo mode.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#27 - 2015-07-13 01:58:31 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
... Over two years 99.8% solo player and loving it. You are all just slightly smarter belt rats to me.
Crazy people talking to the AI and thinking they hear them talk back.
Are your enemies on your teamspeak server too?
I am a figment of imagination, typing in your head. Why do you insist we exist?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-07-13 02:12:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
DaReaper wrote:
You can chose to play it like a solo game, but you will have more fun, based on CCP's own statistics, if you join a corp then if you play alone.


Based on my own experience, after 4 years in the game, and having been in multiple corps, I have to disagree with you on this point. It took me a while but I realised that I enjoy this game way more playing solo.

As for OP, deal with it. CCP shouldn't change the game to suit you.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#29 - 2015-07-13 02:23:14 UTC
I have a corp with four of my own characters in it.

Sometimes I make them talk to each other in corp chat. So, am I a multiplayer or a solo player? Or just off the deep end?

As to the topic at hand. Play how you want. If it doesn't work out, don't force yourself to play as these forum Gurus tell you to. Find another game that suit you better. As for the multi in MMO that keeps being misused, it means lots of people on the same server. It does not mean you have to talk to them or interact with them beyond blowing up their ships occasionally. Solo and multi fit just fine together.

Mr Epeen Cool
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-07-13 02:27:52 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Sometimes I make them talk to each other in corp chat. So, am I a multiplayer or a solo player? Or just off the deep end?


It you were using them for multibox PvP, then you might get trolled by an elitist solo PvP'er telling you that you aren't really solo. But that would just be them trying to troll you because you didn't give them a fair fight Big smile
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-07-13 02:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
It's because their are too many scumbags in eve that many people have decided to play multibox solo. I can't blame them one bit since you don't have to put up with bad drama and awoxers. I've been solo multiboxing 95% of the time since I started playing eve, but I found that it limits your options quite a bit when venturing out into null sec because everywhere you go, there's a scout or two watching you. Before you know it, the blobs comes and ruins your day. For that reason it pretty much makes it mandatory to join a corp if you want to do something fun in eve. But it looks like I may have found some decent people to roll with so I'm gonna give teamplay a try out.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#32 - 2015-07-13 03:07:16 UTC
They buffed solo PvE when they made anoms escalate more often. People farm them big time now for private 4/10s and 5/10s in hisec. Now I gotta use combat probes and weed through all the ships running missions and crap, to find fellow explorers to play with.
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#33 - 2015-07-13 03:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
This reminds me of "There are no rights without individual rights" kind of concepts, which are completely true.

However there's a difference between "solo" as many WoW players see it (play vs the AI with no player interaction) and solo where others can affect you, EG: solo PVE in nullsec or solo pvp. The latter is way more important to EVE than the former, in fact I'd argue no activity in EVE should be free from player interaction if someone wants to mess with you badly enough.
Hi.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#34 - 2015-07-13 03:44:38 UTC
Jacques d'Orleans wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:

You are correct. I would rather play a single player space game but there wasn't one available.



X3: Terran conflict, X3: Albion Prelude.
I'm not sure about Elite: Dangerous, but afaik it also has a solo mode.

Don't care about Elite, but X3 is pretty damn good. Drop in the XRM mod and it's a 5 star game rivaling skyrim imo.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#35 - 2015-07-13 04:37:00 UTC
The OP is right, most MMOs are mainly solo games, and EVE's "you can solo, but it's almost never optimal to do so" culture and nature is off putting to most MMO players.

As I despise most MMO players, I count this as a serious plus. EVE is a REAL "MMO" in the purest sense, where 'graphics' and 'game mechanics' and 'story lines' are all secondary compared to the main event: "Other Human Beings". That's the way it should stay.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#36 - 2015-07-13 04:58:12 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:


The foundation of every MMO is solo play.
...
People love fair fights. You can see that in the success of Starcraft and League of Legends etc. Even numbers and so on.
...
Although I will bet EVE goes with the tried and true, groups of five strangers PUG dungeon design. I wish them the success that the strategy deserves.


Ok, I'm puzzled by that first statement. Sure, most of the time I am 'doing my own thing' but that doesn't mean I'm actually playing solo. There are people to watch out for.

Exciting fights against difficult odds are always fun... and actually, I believe that far too many people mistake MMO for MOBA.
I'm hoping to be able to go on a null roam (NPSI) this weekend. I expect to be podded.

As to the 'tried and true' group of 5 strangers... it barely works in that other game, and I can't see how it could possibly work here... especially considering PVE content here. Just finished SOE again, that was enough npc shooting for me.
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#37 - 2015-07-13 05:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Hir Miriel wrote:

The foundation of every MMO is solo play.


The second M. Roll

You might be a special snowflake solo player, but don't make the mistake in assuming that everyone shares such a sentiment.

MMOs are by nature social, because they are in most cases objectively inferior single player games when weighed against an actual single player game. I'm not going to chew on Destiny for not having as much single player content as Fallout 3, because if I were, then I'd only be playing a portion of the game and weighing it against a full game.


Quote:

But making solo players become second class because they choose not to enjoy forced playstyles doesn't work.


What you're really asking for here is that numbers cease being a force multiplier, so you don't feel like you are making the wrong choice.

And that will never happen. Deal with it.



Multiplayer does not mean working together.

Solo players in multiplayer games enjoy social interaction in that we are one person mixed among thousands, just not the cooperative kind. We'd much rather see you all burn, and don't particularly appreciate it when additional obstacles are placed in front of this choice. We already have to get around the numerical disadvantage as it is.

Cowards get the double benefit of having backup, and having a bonus to having backup. Bad game design.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#38 - 2015-07-13 05:38:19 UTC
Han Solo wasn't in a corp. He did get tricked into faction warfare though.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#39 - 2015-07-13 05:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Harrison Tato wrote:
Han Solo wasn't in a corp. He did get tricked into faction warfare though.

meh, the SW movies ended for me when Greedo shot first. Now we're talking... Disney Roll
Han got tricked into becoming a eunuch.

I grew up in the original release age of SW. As a kid I viewed Han as all balls (him and Boba). Then one day... snip-snip with the surgical scalpel (video editor) and that all changed. Sad

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-07-13 06:11:55 UTC
There is no solo play in eve, you can think you are solo, but the facts are facts, nothing you do is solo.

Well.... unless you are still at character creation.