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Level 4 Mission tanking strategy
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Nagamor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-12-07 17:52:06 UTC
I've read elsewhere in comments that tanking L4 Missions generally requires 500 hp/s recovery. I'm just wondering if there's any truth to that or if the reality is higher.

A little background : I'm running L4's with a friend, since i have the most time and money behind me I'm running tougher tank-boats to keep aggro.

Thanks,
Nagamor
Spineker
#2 - 2011-12-07 18:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
I think it is lower depending on the ship. Nighthawk doesn't recover that much I don't think been a while since I flown mine but its resist were so high didn't need to be recovering but once it did hit half shields she would regen very fast but I am not sure of the exact numbers.

My tengu can boost depending on mission 168hp every 2 second or 89 or something if I only run one booster. But it is a speed tanking ship most things hit it for like 3 to 10 damage as long as I don't get webbed.

It is too broad and too many ships to say yes or no. Maybe slow BSs need that or stationary low resist ships.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-12-07 19:32:54 UTC
Makes sure you have light scout drones and decent drone skills, then just kill scram frigs and if your tank is not working, warp out and refit.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Nagamor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-12-07 19:52:26 UTC
Largely i'm digging into the numbers and research because as a fitting tool tells me, I had shield boosted recovery at 400/s but I still managed to pull so much aggro that I was chewed away.

I run medium drones but I hadn't figured lights to be better for frigate hunting. I'll make that change and see what it does for me.

I'm trying to build out a fit for a Paladin and some of the numbers i'm seeing are giving me concern.
Spineker
#5 - 2011-12-07 19:54:22 UTC
Ahh yeah I don't fly that one or would help. I am sure someone will be along though to help you out.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2011-12-07 20:50:52 UTC
Nagamor wrote:
I'm trying to build out a fit for a Paladin and some of the numbers i'm seeing are giving me concern.


Like so many high end mission boats, the Paladin largely relies on gank to boost its tank. Dead rats don't shoot back and all that.

A Paladin probably isn't the ideal tank boat for the use you describe, but it can sport dual LARs in a pulse configuration if you really wanted to go that way.
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-12-07 20:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyssa Yotosala
Protip: Tengu

So overtanked for LVL4's its laughable, with a weapons system well suited for anti-everything-NPC.
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
#8 - 2011-12-07 20:59:16 UTC
It's tough to take a paper set-up and figure out how it's going to work in practice. Many factors, including your individual piloting and knowledge, can make a mission easier, or more difficult. Here's my overview of lvl 4 tanking.

1) Train up for t2 modues, whether you armor or shield tank.
2) check Eve-Surv if you are unfamiliar with the mission.
3) Fit mission specific hardners and ammo if you have that capability.

This I feel is just about all you need, aside from that aforementioned piloting and knowledge Cool.

"Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes it makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#9 - 2011-12-07 21:06:42 UTC
Depends on the ship and mission. Fit resists and reps if you're in a battleship, and you usually speedtank your t3s. Also, with the resists, find out what damage the NPCs are dealing before warping in. Wrong hardeners can and will result in a wrecked ship.
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#10 - 2011-12-07 21:24:28 UTC
The 500 number comes from effective tank with resists taken into account, not raw regen. I find it a good ballpark for a ship that is not too high on gank. The thing I usually hear quoted is that your tank+gank should equal at least 1000 for a lvl. 500 dps tank + 500 dps gank will probably be fine as long as you pay attention to triggers.
Nagamor
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-12-08 00:56:32 UTC
Okay, so i'm semi familiar with the tanking layout on mission specific hardeners. Can someone confirm is it 2/1 for Primary/Secondary damage types based on mission, or should I be fitting for 2/1/1 as Primary/Secondary/EANM?

Tengu? Gah. Admittedly, yes. It's got a great tank and anyone that can fit mission specific weapons is going to have an easier time than an Amarrian Laser Strategy of "Burn a hole through them". But there's a certain finesse in making non-Tengu fits work.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2011-12-08 01:03:11 UTC
Nagamor wrote:
Okay, so i'm semi familiar with the tanking layout on mission specific hardeners. Can someone confirm is it 2/1 for Primary/Secondary damage types based on mission, or should I be fitting for 2/1/1 as Primary/Secondary/EANM?


It really depends on the rats you're facing. Guristas, for instance, are generally listed as kinetic primary and thermal secondary. However, their actual thermal component is tiny and kinetic is the only thing really worth worrying about -- so a three resist mod layout would look more like kin/kin/eanm and a four resist mod layout would probably be kin/kin/therm or eanm/eanm for armor.

It also rather depends on starting resists. Tanking armor against Angels will require plugging your explosive hole rather aggressively. Same goes for tanking EM on shields (unless T2 Amarr for the former and T2 Minmatar for the latter). It's probably best to play with EFT and swap out damage profiles and resist mods until you're happy with the tank number it spits out.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#13 - 2011-12-08 02:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Korvus Falek
Im curious what your thoughts on this fit would be. Yes, its exspensive, but I have money and dont mind throwing it out there for badass looking ships so ignore the pricetag shock please. Plus, I already have all of the imperial navy peices in my hangar and could use those instead of the deadspace stuff. Cool I originally had mission specific hardeners instead of the heatsinks, however, I felt more dps is always good, so meh. Im not sure on the t2 riggings though, due to the small amount of added bonus they give for their cost compared to the t1 version. Also, would it be worth it to drop a cap recharger for a tracking computer??

In EFT with all 5 skills:
tanks 746
on paper dps of 622
cap stable at 36% (which is perfect imo)
Resists are:
EM - 76.9%
Thermal - 70%
Kinetic - 71.7%
Explosion - 69.8%

Laser Scorch range of 45km+10km falloff
Neut Range of 39km
Web range of 28km, 36.4km if I feel like overheating
Blazing fast speeds of up to 463 overheat, 347 normal

[Bhaalgorn, Missions]
Damage Control II
Corpus A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Corpus A-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Corpus A-Type Heavy Nosferatu
Corpus A-Type Heavy Nosferatu
Corpus A-Type Heavy Nosferatu

Large Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Warrior II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#14 - 2011-12-08 03:00:54 UTC
Use paladin if you are missioning in amarr space.

Use tachyons, they have more applied dps than mega pulses.

Do not try to be cap stable with such high end ships. My paladin caps out in 2 mins if it runs IN LAR while firing. That might look crazy but when you can kill a battleship rat in 2 volleys, you will find that adequate enough. Most of the missions they die before they come into range and i hardly ever turn on my rep. The only times i need that is in gurista/angel missions or in missions where i have to let them come to my tractor range.

I don't have any cap mods in it, 2 tracking comps and 2 DG webs.

Use navy crystals, less cap use and more shots per crystal.

40km is the optimal range for most of the rats. You will want to have your best damage projection at that range. Mega pulses will hit at 15km with multi's. Tachyons reach to 45km with IN multis and thats what you will want, not plunking them away with silly scorch.

p.s: you will loose the ship fast enough if you are careless or semi ask running. This is not like a domi or a drake.
Kesshisan
#15 - 2011-12-08 06:55:48 UTC
luvmehard
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#16 - 2011-12-08 09:32:49 UTC
Paladin, as stated before, belongs to regions with Sansha/Blood Raiders/Rouge Drones as rats.
Or Amarr Navy, that's always a joy Blink

[Paladin, T2 Tachs]
Dark Blood Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Dark Blood Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink
Dark Blood Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

If you don't have AWU 5, You will need a 2% PGU implant. Get that faction LAR (Dark Blood, Imperial, Ammatar..), it really is worth it. You can also use T1 rigs, you should still be cap stable without tractors and salvager running. Consider investing into a CC8 and a CX-2 implant. It's worth it.

Basically, you obliterate stuff so fast, it does not have much time to stress your tank.

.derp.
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#17 - 2011-12-08 12:12:53 UTC
Do not try to be cap stable with paladin guys, really. you won't run everything for even a minute in most missions. Even WC needs only occasional Repper pulsing if u manage the triggers.

Being cap stable will gimp the performance in a measurable amount.
luvmehard
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#18 - 2011-12-08 12:30:44 UTC
Kaanchana wrote:
Do not try to be cap stable with paladin guys, really. you won't run everything for even a minute in most missions. Even WC needs only occasional Repper pulsing if u manage the triggers.

Being cap stable will gimp the performance in a measurable amount.

While I agree with you in general as far as cap stability of Marauders go (neither my Vargur nor Golem are cap stable), I don't really see the point of it with the Paladin.

For the sake of the argument, I was EFT warrioring with all lvl5s:

2x Large CCC = 961 DPS/6613 Alpha
Large ECA II + Large ACR = 1017 DPS/6999 Alpha

Fifty-something increase in damage per second. Is it worth it?
I cannot think of any other form to increase applied damage, maybe a pair of scripted TC's?

.derp.
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#19 - 2011-12-08 12:33:30 UTC
yep, not much increase, but i use a tc, a web usually and 2 x sebos. rigs are aux pumps.. won't increase completion times by much but its better than being cap stable when you don't need it anyway.. Big smile
Flock Birken
Mys.
#20 - 2011-12-08 12:38:04 UTC
against guristas I switched out a heatsink for a radar backup array2, didnt get jammed once.
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