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Dev blog: Summer of Sov - Transition and Deployment

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SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-07-07 21:17:36 UTC
Quote:
Everyone will be able to access a public list of all active Sovereignty structures in the universe, all details about reinforcement timers and the scores of active capture events. They will also have access to capital systems and default vulnerability timers for every Alliance. Finally, the XML API will contain the notifications triggered whenever Sov structures are attacked.


Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to have their head checked. If an alliance can't be bothered with being active in a system why should they have some 3rd party program play the game for them? Any new blood that touches anything part of a coalition will see the sky open up and all the things funk onto their face. They will have learned their lesson and add themselves to the cancer that is coalitions, stay in empire space or worse - stop playing.

This is a prime example of too much information without lifting a finger of effort to obtain it being bad for this game.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#62 - 2015-07-07 21:42:02 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Quote:
Everyone will be able to access a public list of all active Sovereignty structures in the universe, all details about reinforcement timers and the scores of active capture events. They will also have access to capital systems and default vulnerability timers for every Alliance. Finally, the XML API will contain the notifications triggered whenever Sov structures are attacked.


Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to have their head checked. If an alliance can't be bothered with being active in a system why should they have some 3rd party program play the game for them? Any new blood that touches anything part of a coalition will see the sky open up and all the things funk onto their face. They will have learned their lesson and add themselves to the cancer that is coalitions, stay in empire space or worse - stop playing.

This is a prime example of too much information without lifting a finger of effort to obtain it being bad for this game.



well, if they had enough people active to drop on their face, maybe they deserve the space.....
Aneu Angellus
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#63 - 2015-07-07 22:49:18 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Quote:
Everyone will be able to access a public list of all active Sovereignty structures in the universe, all details about reinforcement timers and the scores of active capture events. They will also have access to capital systems and default vulnerability timers for every Alliance. Finally, the XML API will contain the notifications triggered whenever Sov structures are attacked.


Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to have their head checked. If an alliance can't be bothered with being active in a system why should they have some 3rd party program play the game for them? Any new blood that touches anything part of a coalition will see the sky open up and all the things funk onto their face. They will have learned their lesson and add themselves to the cancer that is coalitions, stay in empire space or worse - stop playing.

This is a prime example of too much information without lifting a finger of effort to obtain it being bad for this game.



well, if they had enough people active to drop on their face, maybe they deserve the space.....


There comes a point in most games when things culminate in a state that is dire for almost everyone that plays. Eve is pretty much at that state now.

Without mentioning RMTers which do sit at the top of some hefty piles of people there is just stagnation everywhere. So whether someone deserves space or not because of huge cap fleets isnt the issue, the issue is there is an issue between those who are in nullsec and have been for a very long time and those who havent. The ability to throw money at issues for the long-termers is just laughable.

As ive said previously, CCP needs to add more into the mix to make nullsec more interesting to people, rather than them knowing and understanding they will simply get stomped time and again if they should peak out from under the renter umbrella.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-07-07 23:27:32 UTC
Aneu Angellus wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Quote:
Everyone will be able to access a public list of all active Sovereignty structures in the universe, all details about reinforcement timers and the scores of active capture events. They will also have access to capital systems and default vulnerability timers for every Alliance. Finally, the XML API will contain the notifications triggered whenever Sov structures are attacked.


Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to have their head checked. If an alliance can't be bothered with being active in a system why should they have some 3rd party program play the game for them? Any new blood that touches anything part of a coalition will see the sky open up and all the things funk onto their face. They will have learned their lesson and add themselves to the cancer that is coalitions, stay in empire space or worse - stop playing.

This is a prime example of too much information without lifting a finger of effort to obtain it being bad for this game.



well, if they had enough people active to drop on their face, maybe they deserve the space.....


There comes a point in most games when things culminate in a state that is dire for almost everyone that plays. Eve is pretty much at that state now.

Without mentioning RMTers which do sit at the top of some hefty piles of people there is just stagnation everywhere. So whether someone deserves space or not because of huge cap fleets isnt the issue, the issue is there is an issue between those who are in nullsec and have been for a very long time and those who havent. The ability to throw money at issues for the long-termers is just laughable.

As ive said previously, CCP needs to add more into the mix to make nullsec more interesting to people, rather than them knowing and understanding they will simply get stomped time and again if they should peak out from under the renter umbrella.

Ah, yes -- the most ingratiating position of surrender possible. Let it grace my senses.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Crestor Markham
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2015-07-07 23:37:29 UTC
I also want to express support for the removal of campaign info from show info and especially the API.

-It devalues scouts and intel masters. That's legitimate (meta)gameplay that's being removed.

-It means you need to prepare for literally anyone in eve to show up to your fight--small entities cannot escalate, commit hard, or field something to counter their specific opponent, as they don't know who's got a wormhole exit 7 jumps away and wants to **** on their fight.

-Exposing this info globally means powerful alliances will always have a menu of targets to project force onto, presented to them via this info, without needing to commit to moving, careful planning, or time waiting. Just say "hey we've got a wormhole to region X...let's fire up the app and see what campaigns are live in that or adjoining regions in the next couple hours". Even with phoebe jump changes/aegis WH connection changes, they will always know exactly where and exactly when to attack: It undermines the attempts to nerf force projection/require some kind of commitment to get involved in a (sov) conflict.



The goal of information accessibility is generally a good one, but in this case it really impairs gameplay. In particular, it deals a serious setback to recent CCP priorities including nerfing force projection, making sov warfare viable for a wider variety of entities, and enabling more frequent meaningful fights.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#66 - 2015-07-08 00:22:37 UTC
Crestor Markham wrote:
I also want to express support for the removal of campaign info from show info and especially the API.

-It devalues scouts and intel masters. That's legitimate (meta)gameplay that's being removed.

-It means you need to prepare for literally anyone in eve to show up to your fight--small entities cannot escalate, commit hard, or field something to counter their specific opponent, as they don't know who's got a wormhole exit 7 jumps away and wants to **** on their fight.

-Exposing this info globally means powerful alliances will always have a menu of targets to project force onto, presented to them via this info, without needing to commit to moving, careful planning, or time waiting. Just say "hey we've got a wormhole to region X...let's fire up the app and see what campaigns are live in that or adjoining regions in the next couple hours". Even with phoebe jump changes/aegis WH connection changes, they will always know exactly where and exactly when to attack: It undermines the attempts to nerf force projection/require some kind of commitment to get involved in a (sov) conflict.



The goal of information accessibility is generally a good one, but in this case it really impairs gameplay. In particular, it deals a serious setback to recent CCP priorities including nerfing force projection,making sov warfare viable for a wider variety of entities, and enabling more frequent meaningful fights.


Having it available helps the little guys the most, they don't have the people to have scouts and check each system etc, this way the info is there for them at all times.

It really won't affect the goons of the world as they have the IT staff to basically do it all from scratch anyway, so either way, they will have it, but without the API tools, they will be the only ones with it
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2015-07-08 01:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Quote:
The alliances drawn for the module naming are:

Pandemic Legion, Spectre Fleet, No Not Believing, and Affirmative.
such dissapoint. Many sad. Ow.
Circumstantial Evidence
#68 - 2015-07-08 01:44:01 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Having it available helps the little guys the most, they don't have the people to have scouts and check each system etc, this way the info is there for them at all times.

It really won't affect the goons of the world as they have the IT staff to basically do it all from scratch anyway, so either way, they will have it, but without the API tools, they will be the only ones with it
I agree that more info via API helps small groups looking for a party to crash, but if they are defending, and if the info wasn't public, there is a chance (even with an IT staff) that larger powers would miss out on the "easy kills" waiting for a timer, in an otherwise unimportant system that they don't own.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#69 - 2015-07-08 01:59:46 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Having it available helps the little guys the most, they don't have the people to have scouts and check each system etc, this way the info is there for them at all times.

It really won't affect the goons of the world as they have the IT staff to basically do it all from scratch anyway, so either way, they will have it, but without the API tools, they will be the only ones with it
I agree that more info via API helps small groups looking for a party to crash, but if they are defending, and if the info wasn't public, there is a chance (even with an IT staff) that larger powers would miss out on the "easy kills" waiting for a timer, in an otherwise unimportant system that they don't own.



If you think for one second the nerds in Goons, PL, NCdot don't know about every timer going on, you are sadly mistaken. Most of the time the FC's are bombarded with people with an axe to grind reminding us about one timer or the other

What it comes down to is it worth our time to get 3 cruiser kills etc
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#70 - 2015-07-08 02:00:45 UTC
Can TCU owners be reimbursed for the removal of their assets from space?

I mean, this sets an interesting precedent for people with offline POSs when you get around to removing POSs later in the structure cycle. Every other item you removed from the game you have reimbursed the owner, even if it was in space, but suddenly it just disappears in a puff of smoke?

Going forward, if you have an active POS full of ships in a wormhole and you delete POSs from the game, what happens? Are we to expect they just explode? That's what i'm taking out of this.

Also, on the CREST API, CCP Fozzie et al. you do realise you just completely ****** everyone in nullsec, regardless of your wormhole nerf?

I mean, to explain it:
1,000 people read this

Maybe someone might read this, too

...and here we are, with CREST about to be scalped by some PL API widget to detect upcoming timers.

Lets put 2 and 2 together.

API says a system is coming out of RF and there is a chance of a fight.
Nullsec powerbloc has a Siggy account or Tripwire, and has a map with a dozen wormhole routes through from nullsec and lowsec to nulls and low. They also have Thera, the unsinkable aircraft carrier of douche canoe.
Widget feeds to Siggy's Exit Finder (or a similar widget developed by PL's programming nerd boffins).
With the click of a button, you know your closest entrance to a wormhole chain which takes you from wherever you are, to the closest exit to the system which is coming out of RF.

Ergo, you will soon see BL, PL, HK, Goons and, if NC Dot can stop being bad at this, N3 all turning up to dogpile every concievable structure and sov timer in nullsec and lowsec, with very little efficiency loss.

Yeah, Fozzie. You better nerf the absolute living daylights out of all wormhole connections to nullsec.

Or, you know, not put structure timers on the API. Cause this will really kill nullsec. Golf clap. Seriously sarcastic golf clap.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#71 - 2015-07-08 02:13:43 UTC
It sounds better when you say it that way, I needed a boost
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-07-08 02:40:45 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Can TCU owners be reimbursed for the removal of their assets from space?

I mean, this sets an interesting precedent for people with offline POSs when you get around to removing POSs later in the structure cycle. Every other item you removed from the game you have reimbursed the owner, even if it was in space, but suddenly it just disappears in a puff of smoke?

Going forward, if you have an active POS full of ships in a wormhole and you delete POSs from the game, what happens? Are we to expect they just explode? That's what i'm taking out of this.

Also, on the CREST API, CCP Fozzie et al. you do realise you just completely ****** everyone in nullsec, regardless of your wormhole nerf?

I mean, to explain it:
1,000 people read this

Maybe someone might read this, too

...and here we are, with CREST about to be scalped by some PL API widget to detect upcoming timers.

Lets put 2 and 2 together.

API says a system is coming out of RF and there is a chance of a fight.
Nullsec powerbloc has a Siggy account or Tripwire, and has a map with a dozen wormhole routes through from nullsec and lowsec to nulls and low. They also have Thera, the unsinkable aircraft carrier of douche canoe.
Widget feeds to Siggy's Exit Finder (or a similar widget developed by PL's programming nerd boffins).
With the click of a button, you know your closest entrance to a wormhole chain which takes you from wherever you are, to the closest exit to the system which is coming out of RF.

Ergo, you will soon see BL, PL, HK, Goons and, if NC Dot can stop being bad at this, N3 all turning up to dogpile every concievable structure and sov timer in nullsec and lowsec, with very little efficiency loss.

Yeah, Fozzie. You better nerf the absolute living daylights out of all wormhole connections to nullsec.

Or, you know, not put structure timers on the API. Cause this will really kill nullsec. Golf clap. Seriously sarcastic golf clap.

Honestly, the net effect of campaigns being in the API is that everyone can know when timers are, instead of just organizations with established spy networks like GSF. This isn't telling us anything we weren't aware of on our own. The net change here is a small reduction in work for our spies. I'm sure they appreciate it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#73 - 2015-07-08 03:51:23 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:


Having it available helps the little guys the most, they don't have the people to have scouts and check each system etc, this way the info is there for them at all times.

It really won't affect the goons of the world as they have the IT staff to basically do it all from scratch anyway, so either way, they will have it, but without the API tools, they will be the only ones with it



Free API data is bad for this game as a whole, as it favors tech savvy players over all others, regardless of the size of the group they are working with (and favors large groups that have a bigger pool of talents).

A large group can have more players to scout with, that is true, but it is better than spoonfed API data, and these players will have to chose how to make their ISKs.

We have seen how API data for the siphons have pretty much made them useless.
CCP please reconsider your API policies in that area.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Circumstantial Evidence
#74 - 2015-07-08 04:01:57 UTC
Large groups will know what matters to them, they have informants - fine. That's the meta-game at work. There is still a chance that my "local trouble" defense op would go unnoticed, if it's not published by API. Who knows, the attacker-neighbor might just be provoking to see if an equal-terms fight is offered, with no intention of asking for outside help. The new system seems to encourage more frequent small scale conflicts, since the structures are not protected by HP. Every day - if 100's of timers are active, I believe some of these would remain private affairs, if not published in-game or API.
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2015-07-08 04:09:39 UTC
Saisin wrote:
We have seen how API data for the siphons have pretty much made them useless.

Exactly.
Blue Doughnut
Doomheim
#76 - 2015-07-08 04:14:34 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Quote:
Everyone will be able to access a public list of all active Sovereignty structures in the universe, all details about reinforcement timers and the scores of active capture events. They will also have access to capital systems and default vulnerability timers for every Alliance. Finally, the XML API will contain the notifications triggered whenever Sov structures are attacked.


Whoever thought this was a good idea needs to have their head checked. If an alliance can't be bothered with being active in a system why should they have some 3rd party program play the game for them? Any new blood that touches anything part of a coalition will see the sky open up and all the things funk onto their face. They will have learned their lesson and add themselves to the cancer that is coalitions, stay in empire space or worse - stop playing.

This is a prime example of too much information without lifting a finger of effort to obtain it being bad for this game.

That is my favorite part. Yup. I like it.
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-07-08 06:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rio Bravo
In the future how gard would it be to have agents that corps coukd hire to dish out missions in null? Would be cool for a corp that owns an outpost to choose corps and the level of agent that resides there. I like mission running, and coukd have loyalty stores fir the chosen corp of agents. Probably draw more people into null...would be costly, and maybe based on indexes. Thought i woild throw that in there being its kind if related to sov...sort of.

Blink

EDIT: Pending for spelling. I am on my tablet and have giant hands.

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#78 - 2015-07-08 06:40:50 UTC
The API data pull needs to go away. Actively play the game, not monitor third party applications.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#79 - 2015-07-08 10:40:19 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Large groups will know what matters to them, they have informants - fine. That's the meta-game at work. There is still a chance that my "local trouble" defense op would go unnoticed, if it's not published by API. Who knows, the attacker-neighbor might just be provoking to see if an equal-terms fight is offered, with no intention of asking for outside help. The new system seems to encourage more frequent small scale conflicts, since the structures are not protected by HP. Every day - if 100's of timers are active, I believe some of these would remain private affairs, if not published in-game or API.



Your little defense op will NOT go unnoticed API or not, PERIOD!!

That being said, why not have all the data at your fingertips? The big guys will have it regardless, why not make it available to everyone?
Yroc Jannseen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2015-07-08 10:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Yroc Jannseen
Saisin wrote:
We have seen how API data for the siphons have pretty much made them useless.
CCP please reconsider your API policies in that area.


Yea Siphons are not useless, Somebody on reddit shouting about api's has caused a lot players to assume they are useless without trying for themselves.

CCP please nerf some guy on reddit.