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Gallente tactical destroyer - Forced to use MWD setups not fun.

Author
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2015-07-08 15:46:56 UTC
Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#42 - 2015-07-08 16:04:26 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.

> T3Ds
> No imbalance

Yeah.

I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread.


I was refering to specifically the dumb point he made about each race not being bonused to use each others weapon systems.
No dumber than your original post tbh.

Are you a CAM alt perchance?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-07-08 16:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;)


Awesome, except it won't affect me. I've already ditched gallente this time and picked one of the better balanced T3's. Owns Hecate in field tests.

Apologies to Hecate users, I tried; too many stupid people trolling this forum.
Sarayu Wyvern
The Bosena Accords
Round Table Assembly
#44 - 2015-07-08 16:21:47 UTC
Stop complaining.
Apply MWD.
Maximum Gallente.
Destroy all with plasma.

Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#45 - 2015-07-08 16:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nidal Fervor wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Just for you they should have given the Hecate a wicked drone bonus but 0 bandwidth ;)


Awesome, except it won't affect me. I've already ditched gallente this time and picked one of the better balanced T3's. Owns Hecate in field tests.

Apologies to Hecate users, I tried; too many stupid people trolling this forum.
Let me get this right, the people who disagree with you for various, and valid, reasons are stupid trolls?

Wind yer neck in.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#46 - 2015-07-08 16:43:30 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!

So... why?


Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus.

I've not fit or flown one to know though.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-07-08 16:46:31 UTC
Someone post fit/stats for MWD/scram/dual web blaster Hecate with AAR hull tank?

This ship is not for sig tanking cruisers, it's for catching things and murdering them with blaster-Deimos equivalent DPS.
Sarayu Wyvern
The Bosena Accords
Round Table Assembly
#48 - 2015-07-08 16:50:52 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!

So... why?


Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus.

I've not fit or flown one to know though.

Having taken one against a brawling Svipul on Singularity, the Hecate is a beast to be reckoned with thanks to that MWD bonus. You can jump on targets in a hurry and as soon as you switch to Defense you can tank a crazy amount of incoming dps.

Alt of MidnightWyvern. (Mobius Wyvern in Dust 514)

Bia Bri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-07-08 16:59:14 UTC
Balance and symmetry are not the same thing.

Yes, it is true that MWD bonus are not symmetric across all T3 destroyers. This doesn't mean they are imbalanced (amongst themselves; they are pretty clearly overpowered proportionately to other hull classes). It just means they are different ships.

If the only differences among corresponding ship classes were what weapon type they have bonused and what tank type they use then there would be little point to developing a wide library of ships in Eve.

The point of no MWD bonus on the Hecate is specifically TO make it different than the rest of the T3Ds. It is supposed to feel different, fly different, and be fit different. It's a different ship!
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-07-08 17:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Wacktopia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!

So... why?


Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus.

I've not fit or flown one to know though.


Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2015-07-08 17:49:19 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Yeah they should have made it so specifically you are happy. **** the rest! **** balance! **** caring about anything but my own wants!


That's the point, there isn't balance. Hecate is only given the option of MWD, or a gimped afterburner. The bonus should also apply to 1mn afterburners.

Why?


Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus.

The Svipul, Jackdaw and Confessor all get bonuses that allow them to make full use or close to full use out of the bonus for MWD or afterburner with their propulsion modes. How is it balanced that with one of them you don't get to choose which propulsion module to use? It's a blind oversight and I don't understand how it made it through.


Oh like being forced to use Scourge missiles on a Caldari missile boat....because the bonuses are for kinetic...
Gren Alderon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-07-08 22:43:50 UTC
Sarayu Wyvern wrote:
Wacktopia wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Sorry, I know you gave reasons but they all were just you yelling I WANT IT TO FIT MY WANTS!

So... why?


Bonuses for DPS and active tank mean one might wish to fit an afterburner for a blaster-based brawling setup. Though, one could still fit an AB and ignore the MWD bonus.

I've not fit or flown one to know though.

Having taken one against a brawling Svipul on Singularity, the Hecate is a beast to be reckoned with thanks to that MWD bonus. You can jump on targets in a hurry and as soon as you switch to Defense you can tank a crazy amount of incoming dps.


It's crap. I've tested it in brawling situations.

Just look at the efficiency of hecate on zboard, just 74%, the lowest of T3 destroyers by a large margin.
Solairen
Matsuko Holding
#53 - 2015-07-09 00:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Solairen
I see lots of people pissing in the OPs cheerios about comparing weapon systems and other ship diversity and tank to her issue with prop mods. I think a lot of you are comparing apples and orange and missing her point.

The T3D have different modes, so comparing the capabilities of a mode that intentionally bonuses a specific function and negates other bonuses to provide immediate local balance, is very different from a standard T1 or T2 that is balanced as a whole ship without the ability to adjust its bonus.

Her issue is that in Speed mode, and speed mode only, The Gall ship is bonused only to MWD, where everything else is bonused to all prop mods. That's it - end sentence.

The points of saying I want's laz0rs and projects ww/ my hybrids, is mental masterbation, no other ship has them all, and so your example is poor since in this case, all other ships in the class do have the bonus at issue.

The issue about tank compression is crap, because all the other ships in the class have bonus that lock you to a family of tank (armor, shield, hull (lol)); in this case the bonus locks the Hecate to a module instead of a class while allowing all others in the hull class full access.


Now if other T3D hulls were bonused only to AB or MWD, then I'd say you have a point in telling the OP she can't have it all. But that's just not the case.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-07-09 01:00:27 UTC
First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one.

A child. Not even funny anymore...

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Darth Magus
The Lone Magus
#55 - 2015-07-09 03:31:33 UTC
Solairen wrote:
I see lots of people pissing in the OPs cheerios about comparing weapon systems and other ship diversity and tank to her issue with prop mods. I think a lot of you are comparing apples and orange and missing her point.

The T3D have different modes, so comparing the capabilities of a mode that intentionally bonuses a specific function and negates other bonuses to provide immediate local balance, is very different from a standard T1 or T2 that is balanced as a whole ship without the ability to adjust its bonus.

Her issue is that in Speed mode, and speed mode only, The Gall ship is bonused only to MWD, where everything else is bonused to all prop mods. That's it - end sentence.

The points of saying I want's laz0rs and projects ww/ my hybrids, is mental masterbation, no other ship has them all, and so your example is poor since in this case, all other ships in the class do have the bonus at issue.

The issue about tank compression is crap, because all the other ships in the class have bonus that lock you to a family of tank (armor, shield, hull (lol)); in this case the bonus locks the Hecate to a module instead of a class while allowing all others in the hull class full access.


Now if other T3D hulls were bonused only to AB or MWD, then I'd say you have a point in telling the OP she can't have it all. But that's just not the case.


That is wrong. The T3D's should be looked at as the whole ship (with 3 diff modes) not just modes alone.

As someone posted above there is difference between symmetry and balance.

If all t3D's were symmetric - everyone would get the same bonuses, except they would be symmetric (bonus to weapon range in Sniper, bonus to AB/MWD speed + agi in Prop and bonus to 2 families of Tank in Def)

..but that is not the case.

To the OP - HTFU, go ahead fly other "better" T3D's, I'll still wreck you in an AB Hecate.

/close thread
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2015-07-09 06:11:36 UTC
Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit?

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-07-09 06:31:04 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
First her toy wasn't what she wished for. Then she turned her back on it and declared the others as better. And now she defends her new toy, by talking bad about the old one.

A child. Not even funny anymore...


Really, got a quote?

Exactly. Sadly, the other T3 dessies are better at this, therefore, i'll stick with the other better designed ones. The other T3 destroyers, despite having slightly less DPS, are far more versatile and have much greater survivability. Even if the Hecate was given an afterburner bonus this would still be the case, just the hecate would be more viable.

I'm only stating facts and figures; sorry to spoil your parade.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#58 - 2015-07-09 07:08:08 UTC
No offense to the OP, but I'm still trying to figure out why the hell the damn things even got put in Eve in the first place, and people are whining that one of these ***holes is not as OP'ed as the other three ***holes?

Don't get me wrong, I've already found some use for the Jackdaw, but honestly what the hell was CCP thinking? When T3 cruisers are still and have always been a wreck and instead of figuring out what to do about them, they tweak some numbers on the defensive subs and then proceed to release more T3's. The D3's are fun little bastards, but I still have to ask, "why are they here?" Maybe I missed a dev blog or some random reddit shenanigans explaining this?

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-07-09 09:07:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Gimme Sake wrote:
Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit?


You do realise this is supposed to be a fast small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode). It's the only T3 destroyer that forces you to use a MWD or be gimped, which in the case of the hecate, means really gimped.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-07-09 09:14:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Just don't understand what this thread is all about. Why would you want AB on a blaster fit?


You do realise this is a small ship right? 1500ms should be possible with max implanted claymore links and deadspace afterburner but it's not even close because there's no bonus to basic velocity or afterburner bonus (like all other t3 destroyers get from propulsion mode).

You want an iwin button. The mwd is bad enough, because it allows you to get into range... no you want also an easy method to kill anything bigger than your ship.

How often do I have to call you child, until you stop behaving like one? Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE