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Patch notes for Aegis -> Bob has spoken....
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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#21 - 2015-07-04 07:13:25 UTC
have any of you silvers considered that its just fixing the 48 hour c6 nullsecs
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-07-04 08:02:28 UTC
Why fix something that is not broken?

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#23 - 2015-07-04 09:15:48 UTC
they increased mass/lifetime i assume. and decreased chance to spawn null hole. to other wormhole (i hope not, i need those) ccp is shooting its own foot , second one . more wormhole nerf next show will be head and the last heart. ccp definietly want put a end on wormhole space
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#24 - 2015-07-04 10:12:44 UTC
Oh Takashawa wrote:

You'd be right, except the quantum flux generators, though CCP assures us they technically work, don't actually confer any measurable benefit. They're worthless - blaming this on use of flux generators is a red herring.


I'd always assumed it was a red herring also, either because the effect of pulling wormholes in from elsewhere in the region was negligible in itself or because they used a very small separate pool.

I'd half believe that someone had found a way of min/maxxing whatever the underlying mechanic is though.

Quote:
The only reason people are crying about projection through wormholes is because they're too lazy to invest the time and organizational effort to do it themselves, and would rather have CCP protect them than have to deal with it.


Just to be clear, I'd be against a reduction in the spawning rate, I haven't seen a huge number of people QQing about it either, so don't know why CCP would be changing anything anyway.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-07-04 21:44:12 UTC
Pff, the small line doesn't say anything, depending on what the actual stats are it could be good or bad.
Is it an increase or decrease of spawnrate?
Is it null to null only or what ever to null that is changing?

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Winthorp
#26 - 2015-07-04 23:08:32 UTC
Braxus Deninard wrote:
have any of you silvers considered that its just fixing the 48 hour c6 nullsecs


Silvers ehh.
Credacom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-07-05 00:06:23 UTC
Making sure the new sov does not fail, is vastly more important that pretty much...... anything else.
Good change CCP, hope you catch more.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#28 - 2015-07-05 00:30:06 UTC
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-07-05 09:31:46 UTC
Nice blog trinkets friend.
If it is why you wrote it is just an other sign that wh's are not the content ccp wants... .

No local in null sec would fix everything!
TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#30 - 2015-07-05 10:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Trinkets friend wrote:
The Terror From Beyond



I like your post, but you give too much credit to HK and PL.
Once upon a time when TRI were fighting CFC, I was bringing BL / NC. over New Eden via wormholes connections....

Re: HK & PL connection = HKC, I have no issues with all using HKC as a isk making corp just means more shiny targets to kill!

Removed a slur. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#31 - 2015-07-05 11:00:44 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Nice blog trinkets friend.
If it is why you wrote it is just an other sign that wh's are not the content ccp wants... .


CCP liked wh content a few years ago when people would like, you know shot each other, lately its a lets purple up dunk Null sec and farm the F out of sleepers holiday camp.

Moving forward with other games becoming more interesting to the eve player base, some of the issues that would need to be addressed to make wh's even worth it any more relate to things like

1) How much skill points before you have a viable char to survive.
2) How much work scanning mapping & logistics and such chew up in game time.
3) address security issues with assets so newbros can possibly join old bros and both parties dont have to worry about things going missing.

The above places a heavy burden on any officer/Director some new peeps will have to step up and take a shot at making w-space the place they want it to be, Id like to say that could happen, but the reality is anything but.

Other parts of the game are now frankly more interesting and easier for me to participate in casually with out requiring the commitment levels necessary in WH's with out any of the above overhead, Isk wise I can actually make more for less effort to fund what ever I need to do.

Its with some irony that the easiest place to shoot a wormholer is now in Kspace.
MurinA 7o9
Slumbered For Millennia
#32 - 2015-07-05 11:14:56 UTC
go hide in novice outpost
Nac Lac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2015-07-05 14:25:25 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The Terror From Beyond


You acknowledge the argument that PL is abusing wormholes but choose to ignore the underpinning arguments. The amount of space required to probe for wormhole connections to avoid being dropped by PL requires a dedicated team of 10+ people scanning constantly and having to move ships to collapse said holes. This isn't a viable option when your fleet is only 50 strong. PL has to find a hole to a region or neighboring region. That's all. We have to find the needle in the haystack of all of our space and neighbor space. Let's not forget that our neighbors weren't exactly friends when PL was attacking.

Null space collapsing isn't like wh. If you have a hole to collapse in your wh chain, you move a ship two, three jumps, collaspe the hole. In null, you either have to use cynos or move 10-15 gates. Not exactly parity is it? Don't wave your hand and say we need to put more "effort" in when you are clearly ignoring the quantity needed. This is a similar argument to why removal of local is a big deal for null. There are a lot more factors to deal with in null than in whs. Don't fool yourself and show your naivety to the rest of us by pretending otherwise.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#34 - 2015-07-05 14:46:47 UTC
Excuse me? A nullsec dweller complaining about effort? You come on the wormhole forum and tell me that you can't spend the effort to go around your system in nullsec and check if there's a new signature and probe it down?

Are you for real, mate? Daily, anyone in wormholes scans 20-30 systems with 5-20+ sigs, rolls holes and gets their ducks in a row, using Siggy.

It's as easy as copy-paste the sigs into the system sig list and check for new ones. Probe them out, record them, move on. You are just plain lazy, disorganised and feckless.

You say i have no idea? I know exactly how much effort it takes to control wormholes in a constellation of space, map them and deal with them. Done it before. Some people in nullsec besides PL do it, too; we've had people ninja roll holes closed behind us in minutes, we've had people hotdrop us in bubbles as we come back to our nullsec connection.

I'll tell you how long it takes to collapse a wormhole if you're good at it: 1 minute. here's a secret for you: covops frig to probe it out, warp to it, light a cyno, port through 8 cloaky nullified Higgs legions, jump them in and out, hole is gone. Go to 12 for a N432 or K162 from C5-C6 or lowsec. Better yet, just leave it critted, so it's there and controlled and nothing large can come through.

Move on, next system, port your BLOPs over to the Legions with a fuel truck, cyno to the next hole, bam bam bam. clean your constellation out 30 minutes before the shebang, job's done. True, you can't stop PL coming out 12 jumps away, 20 jumps away, whatever. But that's not the point, is it? Give yourself time to respond.

Are you people seriously telling me that you can't figure this out, that PL and its intel sources cannot be countered by a serious nullsec alliance?

The take-home, in case you missed it, is to not ignore it and say it's too hard, but to organise and get procedures in place, even if it's a scout watching a hole to give you a minute's notice of a PL or HK or BL fleet on the other side. better yet, a suicide dictor to dump a bubble and slow them up.

But sure, enjoy the nerf. It won't stop them unless and until all nullsec is cleansed of holes.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#35 - 2015-07-05 16:27:10 UTC
A nullsec dweller.... you clearly don't know me & my army of alts... I still in in w-space too.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#36 - 2015-07-05 20:43:32 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Excuse me? A nullsec dweller complaining about effort? You come on the wormhole forum and tell me that you can't spend the effort to go around your system in nullsec and check if there's a new signature and probe it down?

Are you for real, mate? Daily, anyone in wormholes scans 20-30 systems with 5-20+ sigs, rolls holes and gets their ducks in a row, using Siggy.

It's as easy as copy-paste the sigs into the system sig list and check for new ones. Probe them out, record them, move on. You are just plain lazy, disorganised and feckless.

You say i have no idea? I know exactly how much effort it takes to control wormholes in a constellation of space, map them and deal with them. Done it before. Some people in nullsec besides PL do it, too; we've had people ninja roll holes closed behind us in minutes, we've had people hotdrop us in bubbles as we come back to our nullsec connection.

I'll tell you how long it takes to collapse a wormhole if you're good at it: 1 minute. here's a secret for you: covops frig to probe it out, warp to it, light a cyno, port through 8 cloaky nullified Higgs legions, jump them in and out, hole is gone. Go to 12 for a N432 or K162 from C5-C6 or lowsec. Better yet, just leave it critted, so it's there and controlled and nothing large can come through.

Move on, next system, port your BLOPs over to the Legions with a fuel truck, cyno to the next hole, bam bam bam. clean your constellation out 30 minutes before the shebang, job's done. True, you can't stop PL coming out 12 jumps away, 20 jumps away, whatever. But that's not the point, is it? Give yourself time to respond.

Are you people seriously telling me that you can't figure this out, that PL and its intel sources cannot be countered by a serious nullsec alliance?

The take-home, in case you missed it, is to not ignore it and say it's too hard, but to organise and get procedures in place, even if it's a scout watching a hole to give you a minute's notice of a PL or HK or BL fleet on the other side. better yet, a suicide dictor to dump a bubble and slow them up.

But sure, enjoy the nerf. It won't stop them unless and until all nullsec is cleansed of holes.


You made it sound all so boring....

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-07-05 20:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ripblade Falconpunch
Nac Lac wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
The Terror From Beyond


You acknowledge the argument that PL is abusing wormholes but choose to ignore the underpinning arguments. The amount of space required to probe for wormhole connections to avoid being dropped by PL requires a dedicated team of 10+ people scanning constantly and having to move ships to collapse said holes. This isn't a viable option when your fleet is only 50 strong. PL has to find a hole to a region or neighboring region. That's all. We have to find the needle in the haystack of all of our space and neighbor space. Let's not forget that our neighbors weren't exactly friends when PL was attacking.

Null space collapsing isn't like wh. If you have a hole to collapse in your wh chain, you move a ship two, three jumps, collaspe the hole. In null, you either have to use cynos or move 10-15 gates. Not exactly parity is it? Don't wave your hand and say we need to put more "effort" in when you are clearly ignoring the quantity needed. This is a similar argument to why removal of local is a big deal for null. There are a lot more factors to deal with in null than in whs. Don't fool yourself and show your naivety to the rest of us by pretending otherwise.


Please tell us more about how there are more "factors to deal with in null".... I especially liked that part and would very much enjoy hearing more about your thoughts on that particular subject, and I award you +1 street cred.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#38 - 2015-07-06 00:30:26 UTC
TurboX3 wrote:
A nullsec dweller.... you clearly don't know me & my army of alts... I still in in w-space too.


We've all got to bear it up somewhere, I guess. Ticks not good enough now PL or HK has made it impossible for you to run your ratting carrier? Go to a C5, krab, and surprise everybody that someone who is a carebear in nullsec can simultaneously be a carebear in w-space!

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Sha mael
Hidden Baguette
X877.
#39 - 2015-07-06 09:08:37 UTC
Bonjour !

Je réagi concernant la modification des WH vers le 0.0
Je suis un petit joueur vivant en WH (C4). Je passe mes journées, avec mon groupe d’une 10 aine de personnes, à prober des WH en cherchant des cibles à abattre. Les cibles en WH se font de plus en plus rares, on trouve de moins en moins de cible. Nous avons l’impression que la population de WH diminue.
Un palliatif à ce manque de cibles est la possibilité d’ouverture vers le 0.0.
Mais ces ouvertures vers le 0.0 sont conditionnées à pas mal d’alea :
- Présence de WH C1 dans la chaine menant de notre maison au 0.0 et donc impossibilité de passer du BS
- Temps de vie relativement cours des Wh qui ne nous permet pas de travailler dans la durée un engagement en 0.0 ou d’y revenir dans la journée pour « secouer » la zone et faire réagir les habitants. Form up long, chaine longue avec donc très vite un ou deux WH en fin de vie ou affecté par le passage de résident ou d’autres usagés.
La vie en WH nous plait du fait de la diversité des régions et des ennemis rencontrés. Diminuer la probabilité de trouver des 0.0 ou diminuer leur masse de passage risque de nous pousser hors des WH.



Hello!

I reacted on changing WH to 0.0

I am a little player living in WH (C4). I spend my days, with my group of 10 people, at probing WH, searching targets to kill. The WH targets are becoming increasingly scarce, there are fewer targets. We feel that the WH population decreases.

A workaround for the lack of targets is the possibility of opening to the 0.0.

But these openings to 0.0 are conditioned to a lot of randomness:
- WH C1 Presence in the chain leading from our house at 0.0 and therefore unable to use BS
- Life time over the relatively Wh which does not allow us to work in the long term commitment in 0.0 or come back during the day to "shake up" the area and reacting inhabitants. Form up long, long chain with very fast one or two WH end of life or affected by the resident of way or other used.

Life in WH we like because of the diversity of regions and enemies encountered. Decrease the likelihood of finding 0.0 or decrease their mass transit could push us out of the WH.
Darren Fox
Overload This
Escalation Theory
#40 - 2015-07-06 09:14:31 UTC
CPP giveth and CCP taketh away: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=344290

I honestly fail to see the positive impact of this change. Sure, it will limit the tools of the hunters, but is the impact of 100 potential cruisers appearing that unbalancing? Think of all the Thanatos builders that will go unemployed as a result.
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