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Three New Team Play Anti-Gank Modules

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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#121 - 2015-07-08 08:13:47 UTC
The game is already heavily rigged against gankers, you are just not using the tools given to you.

This thread is just carebear whine in lines of "make highsec 100% safe"

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#122 - 2015-07-08 10:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: davet517
Arya Regnar wrote:
The game is already heavily rigged against gankers, you are just not using the tools given to you.

This thread is just carebear whine in lines of "make highsec 100% safe"


Man. I remember when I said the same thing about nanos. There are lots of counters to nanos. You just aren't using them. Those were the days.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2015-07-08 12:05:10 UTC
davet517 wrote:
It's not "maybe even profit". Much of it is profit motivated. It's consistently more lucrative than low-sec pirating, and its possible to shrug off the consequences and do it day in and day out, and it shouldn't be. Low sec should be low sec, high sec shouldn't be.

Highsec is already not lowsec.
In hisec you need 2-didgit numbers of destroyers to take on reasonably tanked mining barge, all of which you will lose and then forced to cease affecting game world in any reasonable matter for some time.
In lowsec you can take a handful of ships and wipe large groups of said barges with pretty much no ill effects to yourself (considering you have means to deal with combat drone swarms if you "aggro" a really large group, but hey).

If you don't see a staggering difference between hisec and the rest of EVE, I don't really know what to say.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
davet517
Raata Invicti
#124 - 2015-07-08 14:51:21 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
davet517 wrote:
It's not "maybe even profit". Much of it is profit motivated. It's consistently more lucrative than low-sec pirating, and its possible to shrug off the consequences and do it day in and day out, and it shouldn't be. Low sec should be low sec, high sec shouldn't be.

Highsec is already not lowsec.
In hisec you need 2-didgit numbers of destroyers to take on reasonably tanked mining barge, all of which you will lose and then forced to cease affecting game world in any reasonable matter for some time.
In lowsec you can take a handful of ships and wipe large groups of said barges with pretty much no ill effects to yourself (considering you have means to deal with combat drone swarms if you "aggro" a really large group, but hey).

If you don't see a staggering difference between hisec and the rest of EVE, I don't really know what to say.


You're right. It's not. It's more lucrative to pirate in high-sec than it is in low-sec, otherwise, you'd be in low-sec, given all of these consequences that you say are so nasty. And that is the problem. It should not be more lucrative to pirate in high-sec (as a career). The end. As long as it is, the places of high-sec and low-sec in the game are inverted from what they were originally intended to be.

Back in the day, pirating in high-sec wasn't very profitable, mostly because freighters didn't drop anything when you killed them, and the means to repair your sec status weren't so easily available.

It wouldn't be a problem, except that player population is starting to become an issue as the game ages, and poor player retention is a major cause. Some people just want to build stuff and haul it around empire. Make that too hard, or risky, or cost them months of work with your lulz catalysts, and they're going to bail. No amount of fancy NPE tutorials are going to fix that.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2015-07-08 15:01:34 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
davet517 wrote:
It's not "maybe even profit". Much of it is profit motivated. It's consistently more lucrative than low-sec pirating, and its possible to shrug off the consequences and do it day in and day out, and it shouldn't be. Low sec should be low sec, high sec shouldn't be.

Highsec is already not lowsec.
In hisec you need 2-didgit numbers of destroyers to take on reasonably tanked mining barge, all of which you will lose and then forced to cease affecting game world in any reasonable matter for some time.
In lowsec you can take a handful of ships and wipe large groups of said barges with pretty much no ill effects to yourself (considering you have means to deal with combat drone swarms if you "aggro" a really large group, but hey).

If you don't see a staggering difference between hisec and the rest of EVE, I don't really know what to say.


You're right. It's not. It's more lucrative to pirate in high-sec than it is in low-sec, otherwise, you'd be in low-sec, given all of these consequences that you say are so nasty. And that is the problem. It should not be more lucrative to pirate in high-sec (as a career). The end. As long as it is, the places of high-sec and low-sec in the game are inverted from what they were originally intended to be.

Back in the day, pirating in high-sec wasn't very profitable, mostly because freighters didn't drop anything when you killed them, and the means to repair your sec status weren't so easily available.

It wouldn't be a problem, except that player population is starting to become an issue as the game ages, and poor player retention is a major cause. Some people just want to build stuff and haul it around empire. Make that too hard, or risky, or cost them months of work with your lulz catalysts, and they're going to bail. No amount of fancy NPE tutorials are going to fix that.


The reason it's lucrative to pirate in high-sec is not because of the game mechanic but because of all the fail whale people choose to fly. There isn't much profit in ganking a bulkhead freighter with 1 bill of cargo ya know... Problem is, some people instead choose to fly 18 bill in cargo with extenders.

You never see those fail whale in low sec.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#126 - 2015-07-08 15:24:30 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

The reason it's lucrative to pirate in high-sec is not because of the game mechanic but because of all the fail whale people choose to fly. There isn't much profit in ganking a bulkhead freighter with 1 bill of cargo ya know... Problem is, some people instead choose to fly 18 bill in cargo with extenders.

You never see those fail whale in low sec.


Yep. They'd rather make 1 gouge-your-eyes-out boring 20 jump trip in a freighter, instead of 18 such trips, in HIGH SEC. Can't imagine why. So, they risk it, lose months of accumulated wealth, rage quit, and you get to cash in and buy another plex. It's the player base eating itself in slow motion, and CCP's revenue with it.
Ferrosan
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#127 - 2015-07-08 15:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferrosan
davet517 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

The reason it's lucrative to pirate in high-sec is not because of the game mechanic but because of all the fail whale people choose to fly. There isn't much profit in ganking a bulkhead freighter with 1 bill of cargo ya know... Problem is, some people instead choose to fly 18 bill in cargo with extenders.

You never see those fail whale in low sec.


Yep. They'd rather make 1 gouge-your-eyes-out boring 20 jump trip in a freighter, instead of 18 such trips, in HIGH SEC. Can't imagine why. So, they risk it, lose months of accumulated wealth, rage quit, and you get to cash in and buy another plex. It's the player base eating itself in slow motion, and CCP's revenue with it.


When I do my freighter run to Jita I don't really find it boring. Webbing the freighter quick, with a scout up ahead another jump, is three windows open and it's not really boring. Since it's not AFK, not autopilot, and the freighter almost insta-warps, it doesn't even take that long.

When I have >1B in cargo I tend to take the freighter to Madwhateverit'scalled, then use a BR to bring the most valuable stuff through Niarja to the next safe station in multiple trips. I've kept an armor logi off-grid aligned to warp to gate with reps, but never needed it. To be honest with many windows open I don't know if I'd be quick enough to beat a gank crew anyway. But I've set it up before to try it. I keep the freighter contents below 1B when it goes through. Sometimes I put a command ship at a safe in Niarja to boost armor / agility / etc. on the BR if I'm particularly worried. Since I play five accounts on large screens I change things to make it interesting each time, really. (This is why the constant refrain that I "don't use the tools already available" is complete claptrap. I certainly do. I'd like new tools to play with.)

I would find it more fun to just bring a 15B freighter through if there were other available mechanics to choose from to make it even more interesting. I'd like it be interesting enough that my whole corp made a date to get into it together, even with large gank squads operating. Any suggestion on new mechanics, if it remotely smells a tiny bit like a nerf, are apparently forbidden by the anointed gank pilots EVE was made for. It's simply not allowed to even be discussed. Not necessary to even brainstorm the ramifications. Just "NO" and moving on.

It seems there aren't enough tears in Niarja so they have to gank threads here in the forums too. Little wonder our corp uses the existence of one gank as a litmus test of what kind of player we recruit. It says pretty much all we need to know about what kind of pilot is applying. /eyeroll.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#128 - 2015-07-08 15:58:54 UTC
Ferrosan wrote:


When I have >1B in cargo I tend to take the freighter to Madwhateverit'scalled, then use a BR to bring the most valuable stuff through Niarja to the next safe station in multiple trips.


Shocked.

Just goes to show that not everyone has the same notion of what is and isn't fun.

I remember the first ever suicide-gank of a freighter. It was, maybe, 10 years ago? There was no profit in it, because, again, freighters didn't drop anything at that time. It was a "revenge killing", and it was big news, not a common occurrence.

I think that suicide ganking, as a rare occurrence driven by politics or revenge, should be possible, but rare. Pirating (habitual, criminal activity) for profit should not be part of the high-sec landscape. Otherwise, it's not high-sec. Low-sec is where that kind of thing should go on. I think its too damaging to player retention to allow it in high-sec, at a time when player retention is getting to be a critical issue.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#129 - 2015-07-08 16:33:54 UTC
davet517 wrote:


Man. I remember when I said the same thing about nanos. There are lots of counters to nanos. You just aren't using them. Those were the days.


Key difference here is that there wasn't any counters to nano other than more nano, they literally out ran missiles.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2015-07-08 16:36:01 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

The reason it's lucrative to pirate in high-sec is not because of the game mechanic but because of all the fail whale people choose to fly. There isn't much profit in ganking a bulkhead freighter with 1 bill of cargo ya know... Problem is, some people instead choose to fly 18 bill in cargo with extenders.

You never see those fail whale in low sec.


Yep. They'd rather make 1 gouge-your-eyes-out boring 20 jump trip in a freighter, instead of 18 such trips, in HIGH SEC. Can't imagine why. So, they risk it, lose months of accumulated wealth, rage quit, and you get to cash in and buy another plex. It's the player base eating itself in slow motion, and CCP's revenue with it.




You could always red frog your **** and not take the risk yourself...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#131 - 2015-07-08 16:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
davet517 wrote:
Ferrosan wrote:


When I have >1B in cargo I tend to take the freighter to Madwhateverit'scalled, then use a BR to bring the most valuable stuff through Niarja to the next safe station in multiple trips.


Shocked.

Just goes to show that not everyone has the same notion of what is and isn't fun.

I remember the first ever suicide-gank of a freighter. It was, maybe, 10 years ago? There was no profit in it, because, again, freighters didn't drop anything at that time. It was a "revenge killing", and it was big news, not a common occurrence.

I think that suicide ganking, as a rare occurrence driven by politics or revenge, should be possible, but rare. Pirating (habitual, criminal activity) for profit should not be part of the high-sec landscape. Otherwise, it's not high-sec. Low-sec is where that kind of thing should go on. I think its too damaging to player retention to allow it in high-sec, at a time when player retention is getting to be a critical issue.


10 years ago M0o was prowling the spacelanes and killing stuff while tanking concord. Ganking does not drive away people from the game, we saw massive growth in EVE back when we were ganking a lot more in fully insured battleships.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#132 - 2015-07-08 16:41:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


10 years ago M0o was prowling the spacelanes and killing stuff while tanking concord.


That was quite a bit longer than 10 years ago. Yulai was still the trade hub when they were active.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2015-07-08 18:19:54 UTC
davet517 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


10 years ago M0o was prowling the spacelanes and killing stuff while tanking concord.


That was quite a bit longer than 10 years ago. Yulai was still the trade hub when they were active.


Well any further back you are hitting BETA. So it was about the right time. That is where you had FOE, October Snow etc etc

there is a youtube of some sort somewhere showing an Apoc or geddon tanking concord.

Of course, you were able to fit two MWD's and Cruise launchers to a Kessy, so take it for what it is worth.
Krops Vont
#134 - 2015-07-08 18:33:26 UTC
Just so you know, currently with game mechanics, if is physically and MATHEMATICALLY NOT POSSIBLE to bump a freighter with your fastest battleship Most notable the machariel, with an instalock/webber webbing the freighter.


Arya Regnar wrote:
The game is already heavily rigged against gankers, you are just not using the tools given to you.

This thread is just carebear whine in lines of "make highsec 100% safe"


Quoting to save the truth.

Now we have to worry about CSM members trying to make the game safer. smh

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Wormhole Finding & Selling

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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#135 - 2015-07-08 19:46:52 UTC
Want to counter bumps? Bring your own mach.

You only need to hit the freighter into align once.

Thing is you are too bad to be able to do it so you cry on forums instead.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#136 - 2015-07-08 19:57:04 UTC
Getting some friends and blowing the mach out of the sky works, too.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#137 - 2015-07-08 20:13:25 UTC
Ferrosan wrote:
It seems there aren't enough tears in Niarja so they have to gank threads here in the forums too. Little wonder our corp uses the existence of one gank as a litmus test of what kind of player we recruit. It says pretty much all we need to know about what kind of pilot is applying. /eyeroll.
There is a litmus test here, but it's not what you think it is.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#138 - 2015-07-08 21:24:45 UTC
davet517 wrote:
It's more lucrative to pirate in high-sec than it is in low-sec


And that's highsec's fault. Or, more specifically, fools like you who want to bling out ships and refuse to defend yourselves.

We go where the prey is. It's the prey's fault that they're there, the prey's fault that they aren't defending themselves, and the prey's fault that it's lucrative to kill them.

Literally everything you are complaining about is the result of YOUR choices. Now you're crying that your choices are allowed to have any consequences.


Quote:
It should not be more lucrative to pirate in high-sec (as a career). The end.


Like I said above, if you want to know why it is, take a look in a mirror.

It's your fault.

The end.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#139 - 2015-07-08 21:56:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Like I said above, if you want to know why it is, take a look in a mirror.

It's your fault.

The end.


While I take a look in the mirror, you should take a look at my corp history. I haven't played in high-sec in a long, long time. Unlike some folks here, I'm not saying what I'm saying out of self-interest. I just think it'd be better for the game as a whole.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#140 - 2015-07-08 22:02:06 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Like I said above, if you want to know why it is, take a look in a mirror.

It's your fault.

The end.


While I take a look in the mirror, you should take a look at my corp history. I haven't played in high-sec in a long, long time. Unlike some folks here, I'm not saying what I'm saying out of self-interest. I just think it'd be better for the game as a whole.


Why would it be good to remove an entire playstyle and career?