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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

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NPE feedback Q and A

First post First post First post
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#561 - 2015-09-13 11:26:34 UTC
haven't read all the comments in this thread as a short warning

but i want the attribute system to stay. But i think we will need a bit of tutorial for that system. What i really would love to see vanished is the training imps.

The idea would be u get max 32 attribute points per skill minimum 17, free to distribute attributes would be 14 points as yet + 12 points extra for the removed implants.

Reimbursement of the plants would be the market average at the time ccp decides to announce that change.
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#562 - 2015-09-17 01:07:36 UTC
Never got in on this really but put my idea on the Reddit thread awhile back.

I think tutorial agents should award instant skill books for core skills needed for that branch. I think the tutorials are broken up by industry, military, trade, etc and you could award core skills for each one of those areas (if they aren't this way then perhaps bring them back from the 2007/2008 days). This way someone could choose a path and get going on it right away.

Basically, you award books (or some other non-tradeable item) for core skills after completing tutorial missions. That way you don't need to wait or save up isk for the next thing to use. That is probably the biggest issue for new players is to ease into the training system. Other games are do mission, get reward. Also, this could help new players who come from other games that are very PVE / Quest focused.

After completing all the tutorials, perhaps award a basic set of implants with advanced training times like with the starter packs only not as good (unless they get a starter pack of course).

Under this system, a new player could rip through the tutorials and when done, could go join their friends or corp with a set of core skills (warp scrambling, afterburners, racial ships, mining, destroyers?, etc). Then they would have a set of implants to speed up the process for a little bit and thus ease them into the game much more easily.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

#563 - 2015-09-17 02:10:31 UTC
I think...

The skill tree should stay as it is (possibly a few tweak if necessary, but not removals).

Players start with more SP.

Attributes should go, they don't add anything of any real value.
#564 - 2015-09-18 01:11:37 UTC
I actually think the level requirements going down a peg in various skill trees would be the easiest solution to implement and probably the most effective in giving something to new players without taking a hatchet to any existing content or inventing a reason to dole out a lot of sp.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#565 - 2015-09-18 02:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Part of the new player experience should somehow push all new players through a low sec bottleneck where they get thier ship smartbombed out from under them and get insta podded back to their home station. I think this would be a great idea so that folks at a young character age can see that having this happen to them is a part of the game and help them accept eve as a whole. Maybe some starter mission where the ship requirements are intentionally a rookie ship w/ cheap fittings. Make it happen before they get into expensive implants. Make it known up front that going out and getting podded is part of the new player experience and you have to check that box to move on to other things.

I'm serious about this. Make getting podded home a required right of passage for all new players. It feel it will play dividends down the road. If a newbro has to accept on day one that losing ships and getting podded are a part of the game it will start a mindset early on that will help avoid certain unfavorable ways of thinking down the road.

Just spitballing here, but 2 rookie missions come to mind.

'Shortcut to Mo0' where you get smartbombed and podded upon coming out of warp from the mission gate. When you wake up in station in a new pod the assigning agent could give a brief history of early eve and explain what Mo0 was to the game. Give some words of wisdom about how to be careful doing certain things like taking shortcuts through low sex.

'Lofty Goals' where you learn basic fleet mechanics with a 'friendly' npc, warp to the mission sight and get pwnt. Again, retrun to base and the assigning agent gives a brief history of what 'The Lofty' was and how it changed the game. Give a quick synopsis as to the nature of eve and that sometimes bad things happen to good pilots.

I think some early CCP controlled lessons along this line would go a long way toward player retention. Make this set of missions a 'must do' series that just like 'concord consequences' can not be avoided.
Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#566 - 2015-09-19 01:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aven Valkyr
I would like to add some thoughts and ideas to this. I've been around for a while and I have trained many a new player. This is going to be lengthy so I will try to make it easy to follow.

Despite the griping about the current newbie system, the system does do one good thing. It guides the new player towards the EVE community. Forces them to ask questions. Yes this game has a steep learning curve, but you do not want to fill a newbies head with so much info that they are able to solo the game. Do not take this away from the community. Be careful in what you do because of this. Bringing newbro's into a corp and guiding them in whatever it is they want to do is paramount to the community of this game.

Since my career has pretty much exlusively involved combat, that's the angle I'm going to play here. I've done the career arc for the mining tutorial agent but didn't bother actually mining. I just bought the materials. So a lot of what I'm going to say here is going to be combat related, however much of it will globally affect new players' first impressions of the game.

So here is a breakdown of this topic:

1) Things that newbro's are very often confused about
2) Weaknesses in the initial start up with the game
3) Problems with the career agents
4) Things that are not explained very well or not explained at all
5) Initial skills and balancing
6) Fixes to the aforementioned issues

1) Things that newbro's are very often confused about
The meat of this one will be composed of questions I'm commonly asked
Q) What is a module?
Q) The agent gave me a new gun, why can't I use it?
Q) Why do I always have to travel to a gate after warping when other people usually land right on it
Q) What is an agent?
Q) How do I find missions?
Q) How do I survive a fight?
Q) Why is there so little selection in the market?
Q) How do I find a corp?
Q) What should I train for?

2) Weaknesses in the initial start up with the game
a) The player is placed in a random system with no guidance on where to go or how to start
b) Training comes in the form of popup dialogue boxes which are complicated and difficult to read.
c) Agents aren't explained very well and there is no direction on how to get to the starter agents
b) Players are given a plethora of skill books, many of which have no relation whatsoever on the race they have chosen
e) Players who start the game wanting to mine for example are given many skillbooks related to combat.
f) Things don't flash, blink, highlight, or anything visually indicating the player what the tutorial is trying to show them. There is no "click this, and now click this. Now right click this and click this" to get to what is being taught.
g) The market window settings are set to "show only available" and on the "system" setting. This is a horrible idea. "show only available" is more of an advanced feature that newbies should not have to worry about. The market doubles as the in-game item catalogue. It should be available for new players to view in its entirety and pick what they want to train for.
h) Newbies don't know the difference between empire and low sec and can traverse dangerously into hostile territory without understanding what they are doing.
i) The starter ship is a joke. one civilian gun and one civilian repair module
j) The overview is set to show every celestial object and it's dog. Give newbies a simple overview. Stations, gates, other players and NPC's. That's it
k) Factions, standings and NPC agents (L1 to L4) aren't explained at all. The agent locator isn't explained.

3) Problems with the career agents
a) Too many ships are given out and not enough modules. Of course, a skillbook is required by a newbro to run a module. This is an OK function.
b) Fitting a ship for the first time is very confusing. Agent missions don't explain how to do this whatsoever. The game expects you to know, or to seek out answers for newbies to ask
c) Missions are given based on knowing how the core mechanics of the game already work. Players are expected to know how the market works, how the fitting window works, how to fit a ship according to its traits, what ammo types to use, what an optimal range is, etc.
d) Missions don't do enough explaining of the core game mechanics
e) Missions aren't very well described. There's storyline background such as in the combat mission arc that the player is expected to read, on top of the mission objectives that must be met. The mission where the player is expected to fly out in the ship provided for the sole purpose of being destroyed should be axed.
f) The anomaly scanning mission arc could use a total revamp, utilizing a system of highlighted window objects and blinking arrows

4) Things that are not explained very well or not explained at all
a) Using autopilot to set a desto but manually using warp to 0
b) Fitting ships to their traits (for example this ship gives bonuses to lasers and not hybrids)
c) Using the overview and making custom overview tabs. Saving and sharing overview settings
d) Potential career path and what to train for
e) Breaking down what different ships are good for. For example, T2 Assault Frigs. Heavy assault cruisers. Logistics. Mining vessels. Industrial ships in general. Battleships, Battlecruisers. Etc.
f) Hotkeys (F to engage drones, A to align to an object, D to warp to and jump or dock, F1 through F4, weapon grouping)
g) How attributes work and why implants are important
h) Skill training time multipliers, indicating what skills are easy and what skills are hard to train
Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#567 - 2015-09-19 01:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aven Valkyr
5) Initial skills and balancing
a) The initial skillset should be more like what it was back in the day. A slightly more complicated character creation is needed. Most people come into the world of EVE basically knowing what they are going to want to do, whether it's mining, combat or trading.
b) People with the double time training consumable need to be made aware as to how to use it. However don't allow access to this module until people understand what they are going to be training. More on this later..
c) Otherwise, the low physical number of SP granted to a newbie is OK. They don't need much to get started. However, the tutorial system should give a newbro a solid understanding as to what they will be training towards. The character creation process will help in that.

6) Fixes to the aforementioned issues
a) Fix starting location, starting hardware
- (i) Place the new player in the same station as the tutorial agents
- (II) Give the player a legitimate starting ship. If they chose combat give them a ship loaded up with civilian turrets(max high slot fittings). Give them a civilian repair module, and civilian tank modules. This will arm the new player with something they can actually use. It will not detriment a vet player whatsoever, since civilian modules are useless to anyone but newbies, can't be sold, and can't be reprocessed.
b) Teach players about core mechanics right off the bat. This should be done using a mission arc, more explained below. But basically make it so that objects flash with blinking arrows pointed at specific things, guiding players into what they are supposedly being taught.
c) Fix the mission arcs so that the player is guided to fit one single ship with meta 1 mods, including guns, ammo, a tank, and some tertiary mods. Also teach the player how to make use of drones
d) Fix the mission arcs so that players are guided into a training schedule
e) Add missions to the mission arcs that show players what it's like to fly in a fleet. Add combat missions that make the player witness the big boys slugging it out (NPC vs NPC) with objectives to kill a couple small targets. If mining, then the player could be directed to a belt with many large class vessels complete with DPS and LOGI support. Give the player a taste of what being in corp is like, encouraging them to want to join one.
f) Only allow the player to activate the double time trainer once the mission arc of their chosen career is complete and they have at least 5 days of skills in the training Q
g) Add tertiary mission arcs that explain some things further, such as what nullsec is, how to find mission agents, what standings are for
h) Add missions within the arcs that show players some of the core ship types of their chosen career to get them looking at a training schedule



Here is the real meat and potatoes of this post. I'm going to outline the changes that need to be made to the starting career agents and their missions. I'm going to focus on the combat ones, but the mining and industrial ones can be mimicked after this model.

At the start of the game the new player is dropped into a training system. There will be several agents at the station, but only one of them will be available. This agent is the core game mechanics instructor. This instructor will offer these missions as a part of an arc:

1) Introduction to the overview. Agent welcomes the player to the game and explains that completing this arc will make the other agents available. Player is shown how to undock using blinking object highlights and arrows. Once the player is in space they are instructed to warp to a couple of objects within system. The overview window blinks and the related objects blink. The agent mission objective thing at the top left corner is explained using blinking highlighted objects. Player is instructed to dock back up using the overview

2) Introduction to the ship fitting window. The player is instructed to open the ship fitting window and look at the stats and abilities of their ship and fitted modules. This is all done through blinking highlighted objects and flashing arrows. Once the fitting window is open it is explained that this is the players ships. These are high slots modules where guns go, med slots, etc. Then the player is pointed towards looking at the information for their ship and modules. After all of the things have been explained the mission is complete.

3) Introduction to the market. The player is directed to the market using blinking highlighted items and arrows. The player is instructed to buy a civilian module for their ship (seeded by CCP). Player is shown how to use the market details window to refine their selection. Player is advised that all items in the game are shown through the market and are directed to look at something higher end like a cruiser. Player is also advised this is where skill books are purchased.

4) Introduction to ISIS. Player is instructed on the usage of isis, and how to plan for their next ship.

5) CAREER SPECIFIC: Introduction to career ship types. The player is directed to warp to a location with several ships relating to their chosen field. For combat, the player lands on grid with friendly NPC's around. They are instructed to fly within 1000 meters of each ship and told to look at these ships. This gives the player a taste of what they are looking at flying in the future. Perhaps even spawn capital ships. A way to keep people from trolling the starter system for these spawned ships is to give them 1 HP and drop no loot or wreck.

6) Intro to the character sheet. Player is given information on what attributes are, how skills work, training time multipliers, and implants. The player is instructed to inject their career related skillbooks (spawned as they are now, in the items hangar). A training Q is planned out.
Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#568 - 2015-09-19 02:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aven Valkyr
7) Breakdown of the opportunities system. Explain what opportunities are and how to peruse them to find things they can do later in the game. Of course, several opportunities will have been dinging as these core related missions get complete.


Basic Military Agent

Once the last mission has been completed for the Core Game Mechanics instructor, the Basic Military Instructor (and all the other basic career agents) become available. Still unavailable are the Advanced Military Instructor and the Tertiary Game Mechanics instructor

1) Use acceleration gates. The player is sent to a deadspace zone using an acceleration gate. Deadspace zones are explained and once on the other side the mission is complete and the player is instructed to dock up at station.

2) Get shot at. The player is instructed to fly to a zone and get shot at by an invulnerable NPC. The player is instructed to enable their repair module (whether shields or armor) after 50% of the related tank type is stripped (player is in 50% shields, player is in 50% armour). Once the player repairs 200 points of damage, the mission is complete and they are instructed to warp back home. Remember, this is assuming that the player has chosen the combat career by selecting that option during character creation, and the starter ship is complete with 2 of the civilian gun types and the civilian tank modules.

3) Do some shooting. The player is instructed to fly to a deadspace zone and shoot at a single target. Once the target is destroyed, the mission is over. However, before the player is instructed to target the ship, optimal ranges are explained using flashing items and blinking arrows. The player is show to activate their tactical overlay and hang their curser over their guns, bringing up the optimal range bubbles. This is all explained to the player. The NPC in this mission does not shoot at the player.

4) Destroy a small fleet of NPC's. Now the combat has gotten a little more exciting for the player. The player will take some damage in this mission. NPC's are free to shoot at the player.

5) Focused mission objectives. In some missions not all NPC's need to be destroyed in order to complete the objective. The player is given a civilian afterburner and instructed to mount the module. They are then sent to a deadspace zone where they have to burn to a warehouse and collect the loot to complete the mission.

6) Surviving missions. The player is sent to a deadspace zone. They are taught how to align to an object for fast emergency warpout should things get bad. They are also taught how to pick on individual groups of NPC to avoid full room aggro. The zone is spawned with 3 groups of 2 NPC's. The groups are highlighted with a large blinking circle surrounding the ship groups during the mission.

7) Getting destroyed. This is where the player experiences the first death of their ship. I did say to axe the one from the current trainers because it's complicated and confusing. This way the player only looses the starter ship they were already given. Since no new ships have been given to the player then upon dockup they are gifted a new starter ship. Convenient, isn't it?

Completing mission 7 makes the advanced combat agent available.


Advanced military agent. **** gets real here. This is the mission arc where the player is given a ship and taught how to fit it with meta 1 modules. The player should already have a solid understanding of the market and how to fit modules.

1) Fitting your first ship. The player is gifted a T1 combat ship with a single T1 gun. They are given ammo to load into that gun. The player is instructed to assemble their new ship using flashing items and blinking arrows. They are then told to open the fitting window and mount their turret. They are explained that the gun will not work like the civilian version since it needs to have ammo loaded. The player loads ammo and the mission is complete.

2) Destroy a ship. The player is sent out to a deadspace pocket to destroy a single NPC target. Upon destruction the player is instructed to go back home. Upon mission cashin the player is awarded with more guns and a tank module.

3) Hunt the NPC. The player is sent through 3 deadspace pockets, each time fighting an escalating difficulty of rats, until the last pocket, where the target NPC warps out. The player is instructed to go back to station. Upon cashin the player is given a prop mod and resistance modules for their ship.

4) Engage in fleet tactics. The player is instructed to make sure their ship is fitted with all of the modules gifted. The player's new ship should be pretty fleshed out by now. All of the high slots should be loaded with turrets and ammo. The ship should have a solid tank and a prop mod. The player is then instructed to go to a deadspace pocket where a fleet is awaiting. When the player lands in the pocket there is a battle going on between his ally fleet and the NPC rat fleet. This battle will include everything from battleships to even carriers and/or dreadnoughts. This mission should be quite the spectacle for the new player. He is instructed to kill 3 or 4 frigates, therefore supporting the fleet. Upon destruction of the frigates, all NPC's warp out. This completes the mission. On cashin the player gets like 2 or 3 million ISK.
Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#569 - 2015-09-19 02:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aven Valkyr
5) Various ammo types, optimal ranges. The player is gifted ammo types for his weapons of varying optimal ranges. There would be the short range ammo they already have, medium range ammo and long range ammo. The player is told to load the ammo in his cargo hold and told to undock. The player is instructed to warp to a deadspace pocket open the tactical overlay and to load the dfferent ammo types using blinking hud items and flashing arrows. This gives the player a visual on what different ammo types do and why it's important to keep NPC's within the optimal. There are 3 NPC turrets to kill. The player is instructed to kill each one using the ammo that's best for that optimal range. The players thrusters are disabled here, making their ship unable to move or warp out, so that they MUST use the different ammo types in order to complete the mission. The player is given another 2 or 3 mil on mission completion.

6) Stepping up the difficulty. The player is gifted with modules that fill in the rest of their slots, such as capacitor rechargers or power diagnostic modules, something that makes their ship a little better. The player is sent to a deadspace pocket where they must fight an actual threat. Risk of loosing the ship here is medium. The player is warned from the beginning that they must use the skills they have learned up to this point. It may be necessary to have to warp out. The player is also taught to watch out for their capacitor levels in order to hold their tank. Upon completion the player is given a drone to use for the next mission.

7) Drones. The player is instructed to load the drone(s) given to them in the previous mission. The player is sent to a pocket with 3 NPC's. They are instructed on how to use their drones. Completion of this mission grants the player another 2 to 3 mil ISK.

8) PVP. The player is granted a warp disrupter, a web and an ECM. They are instructed that in order to use these modules they must sacrifice something from their mid slots. They are told to do a slight refit of their ship to fit these modules. The player is then sent out to the battlefield where they are up against a cruiser. The cruiser does not shoot at the player but the mission explains how the different modules work and what they do. Upon the completion of the explanation the player is instructed to destroy the cruiser (which is unusually weak) and return home. The player is sent back to station upon destruction of the cruiser and the cashin reward is some isk and a cruiser skillbook.


Upon completing the Advanced Military Agent the Tertiary Game Mechanics agent becomes available.

1) Basic map functions. The player is given a simple instruction on the map and how to filter it out. This is accomplished using blinking hud items and flashing arrows.

2) Autopilot, waypoints and routes. The player is given a destination to a pre-determined system. This system should be like 15 - 20 jumps away through high sec or like 6 - 10 jumps away using shortest route. The player is informed on the differences between shortest route and safest route. They are explained what a low sec system looks like in the autopilot route, and what to expect. They are informed that Concord will not protect them in low sec.

3) Criminals, pirates and the safety system. The player is instructed to warp to a deadspace pocket. An NPC shows up with a criminal flag. The player is shown the difference between the flags and what they mean. They are also shown how to set their safeties and what the safety system means.

4) Advanced overview settings. The player is shown how to tweak the overview to their liking. This is a simple tutorial using flashing hud items and blinking arrows.

5) Agent finder. The player is shown how to use the agent finder using blinking hud items and flashing arrows and is told that they should find an NPC agent to run missions for. They are shown how to set their destination to these agents.

6) Standings. The player is walked through the standings tab and what it means. They are informed that they must have standings with an NPC corp to run its agents. Upon creating their character, they should be given standings towards their selected faction of 0.2 and a corporation standing towards the starter corp they are running for. Each unlock of the next agent should grant the player higher standings so they can run missions for that agent. By the time the player hits the tertiary agent they should have pretty high standings with the starter agent corp, which of course only has tutorial agents and nothing else.

7) Implants. The player is given a set of +1 implants and instructed on how to inject them. The player is already familiar with attributes and what they do. They will be happy to have some sort of edge on the game. Now that they have implants injected and a skill Q already in the works, they are instructed on how to use and to activate their double training time item.

8) Where to go from here? This mission explains to the pilot that they should seek out friends to run with. They are directed towards the corp chat of the NPC corp they are currently in and any other resources. They should be shown how to open chat channels and direct them to the recruitment help chan.


The last mission basically concludes the overall mission arc. Let's review what the player has learned (combat wise):

They have learned:
- How to use the basic overview functions
- How to use the fitting window
- How to use the market
- How to use ISIS
- Shown different ship types, and how to identify them in the overview
- Basics behind the character sheet, how to inject and train skills, what skill multipliers and attributes mean
- How to identify enemies
- How to work their tank
- Given a basic understanding of optimal ranges and how to visually see them
Aven Valkyr
Over Reaction
Ligma Grindset
#570 - 2015-09-19 03:18:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aven Valkyr
- How to destroy other ships
- How to manage a dogfight
- Understand what align-to is and how to survive in a dogfight
- What it means to get destroyed
- Fitting a real T1 ship
- Fit modules which increase the capabilities of their ship
- Understand what ammo is and why it needs to be fitted
- Understand the typical flow of a mission with several accel gates
- Work with a fleet to achieve a common goal
- Understand what tactical positioning is by using different ammo types based on their optimal range modifier
- How to use drones and what they are good for
- What PVP modules are and how they work
- How to use the autopilot to stay out of (or get in to) troubled systems
- How to use the map
- What criminals are and how to recognize pirates, and what you are and aren't allowed to do in empire
- Configure the overview to their liking
- Use the agent finder
- Inject their first set of implants and active their double training time item.

Things they will have achieved by running through this new system:

- A fully fitted ship
- 10 mil ISK
- A new destination (NPC agent)

Mission Tutorial Flowchart
|                                    |
| Tutorial Agent Station |    <-- Player Starts Here

|                                                  |
| Core Game Mechanics Agent |  <- First Agent Available

                   |   <- Completing missions unlocks next group of agents
                   v                                   v                           v
__________________ ______________    ______________
|                                   | |                           |   |                            |
| Basic Combat Agent | | Industrial Agent |   | Scanning Agent |
|_________________| |_____________|   |______________|

                |                                  |                               |
                |                                  |                               |
                 v                                 |                               |
______________________        |                               |
|                                          |        |                               |
| Advanced Combat Agent |        |                               |
|_____________________|        |                               |
                                                    |                              |
                 |                                  |                              |
                 |                                  |                              |
                 v                                 v                              v
|                                                                                             |
|                        Tertiary Game Mechanics Agent                 |

Things the player starts the game with:
Starter ship
Skill books (combat, sorry I don't know enough about mining)
- racial frig
- racial small weapons
- small repair modules
- engineering (core)
- electronics (core)
- gunnery (core skill)
- weapon upgrades
- targetting (core skill)
- cybernetics
- drones (core skill)
- electronic warefare (for use of warp disrupter/web)
- afterburners (high speed maneuvering?)
50K isk

Things the player will end up with:
T1 frig with fleshed out fitting
Approx 10 mil ISK (really nothing by todays standards)
Full set of +1 implants
Activation of double training time item
Knowledge (can't put a price on this)
A direction (also can't put a price on this)

Changes made that will hurt other players, such as nerfing attributes and therefore implants:
#571 - 2015-09-19 06:34:49 UTC
No thanks, just fiddle with skills or something.

-An actual newbie
Randy Wray
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#572 - 2015-09-19 08:24:52 UTC
Instead of relying on attributes you can just have learning implants go straight tp boosting certain skill groups.

So instead of boosting "perception" an implant will boost gunnery and missile skills while another slot implant can boost engineering and ship command for example.

For simplicity sake the skill groups could be divided into bigger groups like "Weapon systems" include missiles and gunnery skills and the implant affects the SP/hour rate of that bigger group. Opens up the window to further simplify skill names and make the skill tree easier to navigate, you open up the skill tree and you're met with weapon skills, defense skills, fitting skills, ship command etc.
Then it should be fairly straight forward to click your way to the skill you need.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

Aina Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#573 - 2015-09-19 15:33:43 UTC
Aven Valkyr wrote:
I would like to add some thoughts and ideas to this. I've been around for a while and I have trained many a new player. This is going to be lengthy so I will try to make it easy to follow.

These are very constructive posts.
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#574 - 2015-09-29 17:45:37 UTC
I posted this in Reddit, and am re-posting it here to be considered


We have been reading for some time that CCP would like to remove learning implants. Much of the feedback is implants limit the number of people willing to undock and fight since implants are destroyed when podded. This has been discussed previously where the author suggests limitations where you cannot change your skill queue for some period of time, or you could only have 1 active booster at a time. The author also suggests different strengths.

At the same time, CCP is looking for an outlet for all the loyalty points being cashed out for the implants with something of equivalent popularity. I can't think of anything as universally desired, though. Pretty much anything related to combat either already has a hardwiring implant, and any gap could not possibly have the same demand. Some people have suggested replacing the implants with additional combat implants that would boost a whole range of skills simultaneously (like all gunnery skills), but I would think this would then be difficult to balance with gameplay. In addition,it would have significant repercussions in the hardwiring market.

My suggestion is to replace learning implants with learning boosters. Unlike the previous suggestion, there would be no limitations, and all base attributes would be increased to +5, so no remapping. The learning boosters would have a time limit (7 days), but they would stack for duration. There would be 5 types, one for each attribute.

New booster slots would need to be created, increasing them from 3 to 8. For people with existing implants in inventory, they would convert to stacks of boosters. A +1 would convert to a single booster, and a +5 would convert to a stack of 20. In order to reduce clicking, CCP would add to the interface an ability to inject an entire stack at once. So, a stack of 20 might last a a 4.5 months.

For relatively new players, the implants might last longer, say a month.


  • Remove skill remaps, all attributes to max
  • All learning implants converted to +5 injectable boosters
  • Booster effect would last beyond podding
  • Boosters would stack for TIME, where a single booster might last a week
  • Loyalty points would purchase boosters, but the LP cost would have to be adjusted to account for likely market. Since these would be consumables, the LP cost per booster would be relatively low, but that would be a balance issue.
  • Booster last longer for new players
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#575 - 2015-09-29 18:25:27 UTC
Aurthes wrote:
I can't think of anything as universally desired, though.
Well, there's PLEX, but I don't think they're ever going to let you buy that for LP. Blink

In theory, you don't need the replacement to be as universally desired. Mission runners are the only ones generating LP, so technically you just need it to be as universally desired by runners. Not sure what that would be. Mission decline tokens maybe?

But really, it's a false problem. There's more to the LP stores than implants. Implants are popular because they're a good ISK conversion. If you take them out, people will find something else to spend their LP on. LP conversion rates may fall. And people might stop running missions for certain factions (or stop completely) because the ISK conversion is garbage. On the whole, I'd put "shaking up the PvE game" as a much smaller problem than learning implants.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#576 - 2015-09-29 18:35:18 UTC
Incursion runners generate a lot of LP as do faction warfare ppl. It is not just mission runners. But yea implants are popular for LP to isk conversion. For SoE LP often it is not implants for example.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#577 - 2015-09-29 19:33:27 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Incursion runners generate a lot of LP as do faction warfare ppl. It is not just mission runners. But yea implants are popular for LP to isk conversion. For SoE LP often it is not implants for example.

I sort of lump Incursions and missions together in my head because the gameplay is so similar, but fair enough on the FW. Is implants the big ticket item on FW LP stores though? I had always thought it was going to be the Faction upgrades.
Darklord Avenger
StarFleet Federation of Players
#578 - 2015-09-30 21:11:41 UTC
Just seems like yet another attempt to make it all too easy to gank older players stuff.... sure give the baby a loaded gun with a hair trigger and see how many people he can kill..... why bother saying awwww poor little mining barge.... lol
Darklord Avenger
StarFleet Federation of Players
#579 - 2015-09-30 21:24:54 UTC
If this is what CCP is gonna do then maybe they should offer them who wasted all their time training industrial skills to get them back as unallocated skill points. for if it gets any easier to gank valuable ships with a few new players then what is the purpose to getting them in the first place... when I started in eve mining was a good avenue to travel to make isks, now a miner seems like canon fodder so eve can have more new players that like to gank.
Streets of Fire
#580 - 2015-10-14 13:57:58 UTC
Darklord Avenger wrote:
If this is what CCP is gonna do then maybe they should offer them who wasted all their time training industrial skills to get them back as unallocated skill points. for if it gets any easier to gank valuable ships with a few new players then what is the purpose to getting them in the first place... when I started in eve mining was a good avenue to travel to make isks, now a miner seems like canon fodder so eve can have more new players that like to gank.

Most "new player" gankers are really just vets who want to hide what they do from their main account anyways. Gank accounts and high sec gank tactics is another matter entirely, though I agree it needs to be addressed. Still, I think removing barriers for new players is a good idea regardless. We can't let vets abusing the system wreck the game for new people, who we need in order to make the game playable.