Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Why not? Isn't this the first major thing that sparks social interaction and makes people talk to each other; that makes them notice there are other people in the game who you can talk to, who know more than you and can help (or screw) you and who you can play with or against at some point?

As if this was any different from the later stages. At least they would learn what it takes to stomach EVE right from the start and not fall prey to fatal temptations.

It would also introduce them to the Butterfly Effect trailer feeling. vOv

I remember when it took nearly 30 days to get into a retriever.......

Now it takes only approx 8 days to get into barge fully t1 fitted, and with drones if focused on training.

Getting into a t1 cruiser like a caracal even is not a far fetch in a week or less t1 fitted and possibly maybe even kill Dagan with it.

I'm ok with player knowledge as a gate, so long as the basics are either outright explained or otherwise objectively intuitive.

My problem with the "it only takes so long..." argument is that it often assumes the player has a main to fall back on while training. It takes a special sort of disconnection from reality to propose a 4 month Logi Cruiser skill train for newbros - but it happens.

Uhm training program.........thats what vets are for. that is why newbs should ask questions, talk in local....while doing career agent missions and the SOE EA, in fact i recently saw a lot of talking in Arnon, and people passing on required knowledge.

Problem with some, yes only some newbies is they are blockheaded anal retentive and aspire to not listen to veterans, get frustrated, blown up, and quit.
CCP doesnt need to create a fully hand holding tutorial, how about you try teaching newbies the ins and outs instead.

Very basics like? That you should not trust everyone in EVE unconditionally and check their information? That a ship moves with double clicks instead of WASD and WASD, although available, is utterly inferior to clicking? That you warp to things by clicking on them and pressing a button (which is already explained in tuts and opps)? That you shoot someone by equipping weapons and locking a target before activating the weapons (isn't that the same in every other game that's not a cheap COD-like shooter?)? That you need to buy items on the market in order to equip your ship (is this really something a vet needs to explain to newbies ôO)? Different engagement mechanics and conditions in the different security levels (I find it staggering that people cannot connect the concept of High security space with the concept of restricted engagement scenarios on their own)?

What other basic principles are there that need to be explained to them?

Compared to the number of vets that lost their first BS to an L4 they thought would be a cakewalk?

Your list of concepts is great at showing the difference between things that need to be explained vs. those that can be inferred.

The whole gunnery tracking system is pure madness for a newbro, and I'd wager less than 5% of the entire playerbase actually understands what's going on in there. So that one could use a relatively detailed explanation of the core concepts. But once somebody knows the deal with transversal and signature radius, the pros and cons of MWD vs. Afterburner become way more obvious.

Difference in ammo types however would be something you can do with some UI improvements. If I know what the stats mean (because those got explained), what I really need to see for ammo is the different types lined up against eachother. The comparison window kinda, sorta works for that but is a bit inconspicuous and unfriendly to work with.

It's too bad we can't get a peek at those play tests that CCP did when piloting the Opportunities system. That would be an awesome look over the shoulder of real newbies.

It has to be said that lowering the bar to entry to cater to new people is good, but lowering the ceiling to make the weak seem less small (or to bow the mighty over) has been the death of plenty of games. Every time we see a loss of sophistication in a game to raise the unfit (compared to simply making access easier) we see a loss of motive force of the game.

EVE has 99 problems but information sparsity isn't one.

my latest idea for NPE https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=440212&find=unread its basically making the eve forums more accessible to rookies so they can learn about the game on a intuitive platform, im not sure but i suspect chatting ingame is not necessarily the ultimate way to learn about the game. this would buff recruitment process too

First of let me start by saying that I'm not sure why its taken this long to figure out the new player experience in EVE. Perhaps there are technical, budgetary of visionary limitations that we are not privy to but if CCP were serious about fixing it here is how I would recommend they do it:

First start with a newbie only “Zone”. 1HS, 1LS and 1NS system with a set of wormholes.

1) Player starts in HS with a rookie ship and gets the interface tutorial
2) Player gets a navigation tutorial docks at station
3) Player gets first easy combat mission, kills a drone, learns about combat interface
3a )Player now has the option of doing harder combat missions and learning more. A series of gates would show the player the effects of different things like range, falloff, tank type, AB vs MWD, overheat, tracking, drones, missiles, cap management, logi, Ewar, ammo type.
3b) Having completed the basics the player will then be faced with a series of burner like missions where he/she will have to use the skills learned in 3a, fit the ship accordingly. Hints should be readily available and these should be easy with the right setup.
3c) Challenge missions fits that train certain advanced skills like spiraling, range control etc. Lock players into the correct fit ( I suggest providing a mission specific ship that’s balanced correctly, and work on piloting skill)
4) Teach players about the market, give them bookmarks to the trade hubs since those haven’t changed in years.
5) Career basics, pve, Explo, mining etc.
6) Courier contract to LS mission, cannot activate gate without mission item.
7) On entry to LS immediate scram 2 NPCs w/ slow attack, Explanation on how to deal with scram burn back to gate buy appropriate item on market (guns, stabs or etc). Option for ship to die. 1 of the NPC's to die to gate guys during the process.
8) Mission to teach newbies about D-scan, how to use etc. Challenge mission to D-Scan that are repeatable for practice.
9) In LS show FW plexing mechanics, 30-60 sec timers faction based on starting faction, pvp allowed. Add suggested fits to some set of hints. LP to buy item to complete mission. This will need tweaking/mechanics to prevent abuse by veteran players getting lols.
9a) optional missions to mine, run missions, and hunt players. To prevent abuse allow only limited # of pvp kills in newbie zone.
10) Missions to cover scram/web, have newbie hold down a large NPC ship for long enough to have an ever larger NPC ship kill it. More flying skills should be required to complete the mission, ie must spiral and keep traversal up (allow for easy and hard mode). Item dropped opens NS gate
11)NS gate should have a docked bubble, newbie will likely die to campers/NPCs explain the bubble and death. Give options for how to avoid death in future, (newbie interdiction null, newbie cloak, newbie, alignment rigs)
12) NS station, give guides/missions on anomalies, and exploration, give mission to probe down wormholes
13a) Have a couple different types of WH's, allow newbies to buy fits that make them almost impossible to kill in any of one of the WH types based on WH effects.

14) Of the wormholes goes to tranquility, player gets to keep Isk but items do not transfer.
14a) Vets can re-enter newbie zone for practice (ESP the challenge stuff) but are in a different instance from true newbies.

A lot of the PVP stuff would have to be balanced against abuse, so not sure how well it would work but that's the basic idea. There is opportunity to have some mini Epic arc through the missions but this would at least get the newbs ready for EVE life.