Player Features and Ideas Discussion

1.) Starting skills a huge barrier? My answer to this is a couple of questions. According to whom? The Nullsec alliances? FW Groups?.....for starters I can only say this....WTF is a day or week old newbie doing in nullsec anyway if its not an alt? They are practically useless no matter what you do and used in my experience as cannon fodder mostly anyway. FW....make so the complexes allow only t1 hulls (inclue the faction types, not the pirate faction types but singular faction hulls) There that takes care of that problem and who cares if glorified pirates, nullsec alts....or EvE be damned some of the FW groups complain about it....wasnt FW supposed to be something a newer player could get into anyway? Kinda hard these days when complexes cant be runned by them because all the other fish in the pond is so way OP compared to them.
Now as to skills, or even SP.....change the relative creation process by starting out with Career Templates..meaning you want to be a Bounty Hunter, start with some gunnery, social, and some appropiate faction related tanking skills plus maybe lv1 prop jamming. Miner: give them appropiate drone skills, start their shielding skills, a venture, and appropiate mining skills to fly that venture.....no gunnery skills at all. Run of the mill combat guy....well give them appropiate gunnery skills and if possible (ie Caldari) rocket/missile skills, make them factional so they start with their factions wpn systems, otherwise start them with what we start with now.
And then let them do the tutorials, and then give more skill related rewards instead of gear/ships maybe using the career agents, and up their isk awards a bit so they can afford something for once instead of begging for handouts.

2.) Removing attributes, ok ive seen and heard enough of the arguments on both sides.
Do not give us attributes based on our choices in creation, instead give us skills. Now give us a set total of Attribute Points, lets say 75 so if we want we can put 15 in each attrib. Or in some cases maybe 25 or 30 perception, 25 willpower leaving an average of 8 in two of the others and 9 in one....get rid of remaps.....now the attributes will be permanent, and the Attribute Implants have a real use, and you have no need of messing with them or destroying whatever markets might be based on their exsistence.....Not too mention, characters will be specialized from the get go, unique, adding flavor and making both the implants in question and the attributes useful and meaningful.

Nobody has to use the implants right now, ever....its a choice and a reward. Removing them would be like what WOW has done....they implented their own PLEX system, only in WOW you can buy one with cash....but then you cant use it, you have to sell it on market at set Blizzard in game pricing, you cant plex in WOW unless you use in game money to buy one off the market..i hear one of my brothers complain about the game all the time....at least until he quit because of their plex system, trying to convert him to play here where your INGAME efforts are rewarded.
I hope CCP doesnt make my INGAME efforts unrewardable or take any more choice from me than you already have.

Still reading through the thread. Found a cluster about skillpoint acquisition.
Personally, with the exception of Cloaking Device, I think there should be a small, but tangible, chance of skilling up in a primary skill every time an active module cycles.
Possibly also, every time a research or factory job completes. Every time you recycle materials. Every time something you do actively, warp, jump, approach, orbit, whatever.
But not Cloaking Device. That skill would be skilled to 5 in the first night, by a whole slew of AFK cloaked ships, sitting at midpoints, safely cloaked.
Not that the current system is wrong. I just think you should skill up faster if you're logged in, and using the skill, than if you're off-line.

You would have to define actively logged on. Many things in eve can be set and walk away....for really long periods of time.


Lets have me want to run out some navigation skills. So I find some nice deep safe spot. Drop can. Set for orbit on can at 10 and then......go to work. There I am being active. Fit would ofc be cap stable permarun for prop mod. Somehow I don't think this is what you mean by being active. I'd be doing it and would call it what it is.....afk skill farming. You only hit cloaks for afk. I don't think you realize how broad this afk issue would be.

Or my usual favorite example of me running two accounts and doing various bash ops after war dec'ing myself. This alone can run up a plethora of skills. For both the "attacker" and the "defender". This i can setup quite a few things before I go to work even. Drone skills for example. Drones don't run out of ammo. Literally fire and forget....they fire until target dies. make the target a hardened large, its not dying anytime soon.

This may have been valid when clones had costs when popped. But that went away. I might have been leery to do this at 122 mil + sp, maybe. My clones started to get real pricey.


Now....If ganked I would not care. Mods would probably be "free" mods from loot drops. The cheapest ship I can find. I am just out the +3's I would run. No major loss there really. At least balanced against the potential payout of if I don't get popped I get so much more out of it the isk is worth the risk really.

yeah if you know what you're doing. For a NEWER PLAYER they don't know or understand how to play the game. They are clueless on the game mechanics, overview ect. The SP boost will greatly improve new player experience.

I too am confused how more SP will make new players understand game mechanics and overviews better...if we have to have changes around this (I don't want them but hey ho...)then it should be tied to the ability to use predefined skill maps to help those players through the first few hours and explain to them that they can add up to a full year of skills etc so they never sit idle.

They should be generalized paths though that the player has to understand and change manually if they wish to specialize.

How does starting them at an arbitrarily low sp level help them understand the nuances of the game? This argument is and always will be stupid. Giving newbies a million sp instead of 50k breaks nothing in this game except perhaps the fuckwits in the bazaar busily trying to sell their garbage "starter," alts. I assume you're one of them.

Given his rather passionate defence of the 'gameplay' behind L5 implants, I'd say it's also possible he recently purchased half a billion in skill implants.

Given the choice, I'd say nuke'em... but I realize that people who just blew a PLEX on attributes are one of the problems CCP Rise talks about in the OP.

Only use for plex that i have is to give it away to others. as to ISK....its not a problem to make 20 billion gross in a single day, like i said I am indy so its easy to help others plex their accounts.
As to anything else that can be said or thought of from you....try leaving your noob npc corp for a change and actually play the game, I at least fly around with my implants installed, and part of a player corp.

Hi, CCP and everybody

First, I am Russian native. And I must appologize for my bad English. I posted some sentences in Russian topics, but had no ISD or DEV answers. Ok. I translated it here. I really hope to get some feedback. Because I see really problems in the new training system. ok, let's start.

Hi, CCP. For a while I was testing a changes in EVE, and a lot of them, to the point that even no time to play. Oh well, the tests even more interesting.
Today I got to the system of training new pilots. Firstly, I want to say that it is really cool, a lot of things are very helpful. The fact that the pilot appears immediately in space and taught to kill all the NPC is really cool. But there was a catch:
1. Being a nooby pilot, I get the job to remove the module from the ship. The ship is equipped with a high power modules only. No problem.
2. Next task is to fit a module in low slot. The loot from slain at the last stage of training NPCs found a subject - Cargo extender.
3. But then I was asked to fit a module in the middle slot. And there is a problem. I have no such modules in the loot. Perhaps it is the module to buy. BUT, There was no training how to use the market . There was an episode of the "SELL", but it was not learning how to buy it.
4. For example, I as Rookie, has not pitched hysterical my monitor is found on the market NeoCom. I even found the desired object in the equipment for the ships' propulsion section, "(I gave a hint job description, which is in contrast to most Rookie, I read carefully, really carefully without missing a single word).
5. Let's say I have stumble with no tips, how to buy this item in the market (remember, I Rookie, opened the game for the first time ever, I know really nothing). Bought.
6. But I could not it at my station, because it simply is not there. I have to fly for it to another station on another system. HOW CAN I FLY THERE??? I am ROOKIE, I just learned how to dock/undock and I had not trained how to plot a course and travel between star, it was not offered to me. I think at this moment, like rookie, eyes climb to the forehead, mouse flies to the wall, and the keyboard is broken on the knee and I think to myself, "freaking EVE DEVIL difficult to play with stupid CONTROLS !!!". Sorry
Why do I say this: I remember in the old EVE Aura took me by the handle, primarily teaching docking undocking, plot a course, to make the leap into other systems. And then later she taught to fight and to trade.
Maybe it is more logical to still teach the pilot to move first, then trade, and after that to learn fitting? Because it may be necessary for fitting to fly and do a lot of thinks. What do you think?
On the one hand I see the developers’ logic of the new system allows the player to choose what to study. But, hell, it is the interface I see for the first time (I’am noob).
Of course, being already familiar with the Neocom, I just clicked "all options" and found there, how to move between the stars. The problem, is what if I did not know that you can click this button, I would not hit. This inscription as the title, it does not pulsate, not highlighted, does not respond to pointing the mouse.
I think it makes sense to somehow highlight the inscription, otherwise noob abuts concrete wall interface, poked and cut down. Very well know for myself for a couple of years ago, that's what I did. But then the trouble was not in the interface but in Russian translation. The names of the menus and instructions were not always the same in the real menus, that I was just infuriated. After 2 weeks, my anger has passed, I switched to English interface and without problems all mastered. So it goes ....
Next lesson "forces are creating." Okay, given that the need to look for the "ore processing" with a badge. I dropped out this lesson in space where I find the button? Naturally, as nooby, I climb into the Neocomian, his entire break, I start to get nervous swearing and remove the game.
Well, if I thought to ask someone in the locale. But I am English speaking, if right now there is no Russian players in local and I am zero in English, then what? No one help me – they can’t.
Well, I am advanced a noob, I intuitively got that the objects and ore processing and in space can not be, and I fly to the station. I Flew, open instructions, looking for the specified icon ... but where is he? In the Tutorials icon loaded with small factory and recycled, which is what I'm looking for, running his eyes over the interface station ... and I do not see the desired icon. Enjoying screen http://i69.fastpic.ru/big/2015/0707/78/6a269c0c3d33c56548a465a09f9db278.jpg
But I'm a noob advanced, intuitively comes to me: it is necessary to direct the mouse cursor over each icon to find the right. Wow! I did it.
But I think somehow it should be otherwise, icons and text instructions must comply with the icons and actions in the game. What do you think?
Once again, I understand that the new system of training and the cost of works I like it's idea. But here I sat down to play, like I'm a noob, and got stuck twice. I have twice need someone to ask for help. I understand that EVE communicative game, and I need to get acquainted with other players, but I do not want to be a noob-beggar. Why would I want to leave that impression myself in front of strangers? I do not want it. Ok, I am noob, but I am 30 years old, and I do not want to make a nooby noob empression, psychologically.