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NPE feedback Q and A

First post First post First post
Author
Quindaster
Infernal Laboratory
Infernal Octopus
#281 - 2015-07-05 20:23:47 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Quindaster wrote:

I remember the time when we had many different middle size alliance and they always had roamings and fights between small alliances, and there was always what to shoot every day...now you can jump 20-30 jumps and see noone in systems and none of any small alliance with which you can have small fight...and for this people leave again, and leave again old players, and if they leave - leave hundreds with them, because only because of them many people play in eve.


Soo, you're saying it's CCP that kills small-medium alliances and not the major alliances that could throw gobs of isk, ships, and pilots wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted, however they wanted?

You do realize that with the current sand box mechanics groups like Test and Goons could basically take control of Jita, right?
Hell, they've toyed with it before... They also shut down most HS mining in Gallente space..

You say they're destroying the game for vets, I say they're actually giving newbros and new corps/alliances a chance to actually exist.


Well, I don't talk about Goons and Tests, because they can't kill small-medium alliance and doesn't matter what they do.
We survived Tests invasion and even kill them, but most dangerous was always when some key members in small-medium alliances leave Eve and simply nearest alliances gone from Eve and because of it we had nothing to kill, noone roam like before, simply no traffic and no events for small-med groups.

And here absolutely doesn't matter what Goons can do and whom they ble to kill in HS or zero space - it doesn't change number of pilots in game or because of they's action people will not leave Eve, but vecause of CCP stupid action - people leave, and if 1-2 key players leave - leave hundreds of other players too. And this is killing Eve, not Goons. If alliance gone - noone will join they, they's friends will not join them and play Eve, it's simple.
Iain Cariaba
#282 - 2015-07-05 20:38:54 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
The fitting window is ingame. Info windows for modules are ingame. EVE still has an ingame browser, where's the problem with consulting the internet? I do not get the problem, but then again, I still have a bit of curiosity and exploratory drive left in me. The new gamers of the last decade don't seem to have this anymore. As said: handholding.


Yes it is hand holding, yes we have to handhold new guys who just start a game. This particular person couldn't figure out in 20 minutes what a midslot item was.

I'd love to know how he couldn't figure it out, forward that exact issue to CCP and have them enhance the NPR to hopefully address the issue of a person being lost in the first 20 minutes of a game.

Is this new player an idiot... no. He is just a new player. I would hope the resources for a new player are slammed right in front of them, formed in a simple explanation. When you just start a game..... forget curiosity or drive. You just want to know how to get from a to b, how to put a gun on, how stuff moves.

If I were CCP, I'd probably find the guy and ask them .... how could you not know what a midslot is?

We get newbro questions asked on an hourly basis, every day. Lets just put it out there for CCP to actually see and acknowledge.

Here was one, a guy couldn't figure out what a midslot item was after 20 minutes.

Curiosity, drive, motive, noob be damned. I want the guy to stay so he can learn, play, and so I can selfishly shoot him later and not have him rage quit saying eve is stupid on 30 different forums.

Is this new player an idiot... probably.

We do not need to handhold new guys. If you want your hand held and someone to lead you through the game, there are many other games that will do that for you.

To paraphrase something I read here not too long ago, can't seem to find it right this moment, I'd rather have 20,000 players dedicated to the game than 200,000 idiots who can't even figure out what a mid slot is.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#283 - 2015-07-05 20:44:54 UTC
Quindaster wrote:
CCP stupid like always.

And this idiots in CCP cannot understand one simple thing - new players stay in game ONLY if they join to old players, because old players like tree - they create events, they create strong base and they show who can be new players if they stay in this game.



I think you underlined one of the huge problems EVE currently has while complaining about something that makes zero sense.

First of all, there was obivously a period of time where there were no "old" players. All EVE players were relatively "new" EVE players, and they created content for themselves. The problem is that nowadays there's literally so much high-level gameplay going on that being a newbro with garbage skills is simply less fun than it used to be. When I started playing EVE for the first time in 2006, it was rare to see a battleship fleet. If I hopped in a ****** T1 frigate and went to Providence, the first person I PvP'd would probably be in the same boat. By 2015 people have had literally more than 10 years to discover and perfect the absolute best risk minimization tactics in a game that encourages exactly that.

In order to find fun content, the bulk of new players will swarm to veterans to create content for them. This doesn't mean that CCP should constantly cottle the veterans and bend to their desires, it means that CCP should be looking at why the ideal experience for a new player is to join a corp with 15,000 other new players. Ten years ago it was okay to just "be bad" because so many other people were "just bad". With the average SP being so high nowadays, all of the "bads" do best by grouping up and being led by a veteran, which doesn't teach them to be independent or create their own content.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#284 - 2015-07-05 21:40:12 UTC
You may not want a guy who can't figure out what a midslot is, but I do. I wants that person to get addicted to this game, and try to figure out every nuance of the basics, get to the end of that trial and say "here's 15 bucks, take my money I want to play".

That's the exact person I want and hopefully CCP wants. Those 200,000 idiots who can't fit a midslot pay CCP's salaries, the bills, keep the game lights going and provides the new content for you to farm. I want those 200,000 idiots who can't figure out what plex is and decide to pay for the game. I want CCP to suddenly make $3,000,000 in one month off subscriptions because their new player experience was a success.

You want your elite 20k? Fine. I want the idiot who can't figure out what a midslot is because they'll be more apt to pay for the game and not become someone's 15th cyno alt.

I want new people and new blood. I want LOTS of those idiots... TONS. hundreds... THOUSANDS. I want them spending time learning the game, I want them staying. I want them dying and laughing and having a great time. I want every person you consider an idiot logging into eve, every day, for years because they have come to love it. I want every idiot to become an eve addict.

I don't want them frustrated asking for help on the forum because they couldn't figure out what a midslot is. I want them enjoying their first experiences, coming away with a smile and the desire to come back because their first impression of eve was "this is cool" not "I'm frustrated and this person called me an fool".

I want the new blood, I want them all in newbships flying into lowsec and dying to smart bombs... And them learning about what happened from day 1. But first, I want them to get farther than 30 minutes into the game before being confronted with posts of "there new and useless" or "if you have the will you would have stayed, but you didn't because your stupid, get out we don't want you".

I want every person from a 18 year old wow reject to a 80 year old paraplegic logging into the game, and have the capabilities of playing the game in a comprehensible manner and have a positive experience with the tools that are currently in the game. Some are more upfront, some are less upfront.

But I want the people you call idiots. I want CCP Seagull to walk in front of a conference committee and say: "We have broken 1 million paying subscribers".

At that point, I could care less if they are elite, or an idiot. They logged on, they had fun, they paid to play and logged back in.

If that did not matter, CCP wouldn't be spending such a significant amount of time on the New Player Experience.

Yes. I want the idiots, CCP needs the idiots, and we all want the person to grow beyond being an idiot.

Yaay!!!!

Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#285 - 2015-07-05 21:56:55 UTC
^^ Ignore Iain man, he literally posts in every thread in Features & Suggestions and ***** on everything everyone says, including CCP. He isn't interested in having any sort of constructive conversation, he just wants to talk down to people like he's "smart" or something
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2015-07-05 22:17:38 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
... CCP needs the idiots...


Thank God for that, I was getting nervous...
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2015-07-05 23:11:25 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Yes, a newbro can start with station trading and even scouting, but he will eventually HAVE to train the engineering skills.
There's no way around them. I would also argue that engineering skills are very important for mining as well.
They're quite often the difference between tank and no tank.

Also, they won't have perfect fitting skills to start off with, if they didn't have to worry about engineering skills. They'd be fully t1 fitted until they trained all the required skills, there's skills that reduce cap, cpu, and pg usage of certain modules that are very important to a lot of fits.

As far as these skills go, there's no point in having the skills if you're already going to start them off at lvl 3.
How about starting them off with lvl 3 frig and lvl 3 guns or missiles?
You much also remember what separates rookie from vet is piloting.

My point behind removing these skills is because they are mandatory skills for all pilots, and I don't feel any skill should be mandatory. Sure, you have to train caldari frigs to get into Caldari cruisers, but that's an optional path.

With all these baseline skills such as engineering skills, gunnery, missile launcher operation, navigation, warp drive operation, etc. etc. etc...
These skills only force more confusion and also reduce playability.

There are many more skills as well as piloting skill that separate new from old. We don't need mandatory skills blocking the way as well.

While sitting in rookie hubs, you have like often explained that these core skills need to be trained ASAP.



I really hate agreeing with Rivr, but yeah, he's said it. If you think removing these skills is the answer, then you need to find a different game. If you are unwilling to use these skills to teach new players the importance of training skills thoroughly, but would rather cut their knees out by handing them super freebies, then you also need to consider a new game. Further, you're not even in the same ball park with reality when you say there is no reason to have a skill if you start it at 3. Small hybrids 3 won't allow you to train T2 blasters, nor get the full 25% damage bonus from the skill. Same with the engineering skills. I would not be opposed to them having a faster train time or starting a higher level than they do, but removing them or granting them at 5 would be a bad decision. You can do PLENTY with them not at 5. Your opinion that they are 'mandatory' is also erroneous. You don't have to train them. You don't have to train weapons, drones, anything. You choose to. Your point is not a point. Have fun beating this dead horse.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2015-07-06 00:21:58 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
I really hate agreeing with Rivr
Then don't, because he's wrong.

Don't be fooled by the bittervets. The SP system is a measure of how long you've had an account in good standing with CCP, and that's it.

It doesn't measure:

  1. Your skill in the game.
  2. Your adeptness at trading.
  3. Your combat proficiency.
  4. Your spaceship pixel gloriousness.
  5. Your e-peen.
  6. Your understanding of the underlying business realities of an MMO.
  7. Your status in the EVE community.


All SP means is that for every 2M you have, somebody paid CCP for a month's subscription. That is it.

CCP took the worst parts of "theme partk" MMO skill progression, and married them to a sandbox talent tree.

Normally the gap between "Stab Things!" and "Smash Things!" in an MMO is so you can get used to a skill and how it relates to the other skills in your repertoire.

EVE doesn't have that.

Normally the constant repetition of buying "Stab Things! 1", "Stab Things! 2", etc... is there as a money sink.

EVE doesn't have that.

Normally players still going through the skill grind are either outright protected from hostilities, or cordoned off with players of equal progression.

EVE doesn't have that.

EVE's environment is one where you're pushed out into the cold, dark expanse at a tremendous disadvantage simply because you haven't paid CCP enough month's rent. Why? Because paying CCP is the equivalent of 'earning' that progression? Because the type of player that EVE attracts can't stand the idea of losing that advantage? Cyno alts?

There are ways to tie skills to progression that don't depend on arbitrary wastes of time. Ideally, tie it to ISK. My favorite would just be removing SP entirely, but that's not the only way. If skill books simply injected rank V (or level them out I - V, whatever) that works too. But there's no reason to tell a new character that they aren't allowed to do something because CCP needs to be paid its tithe.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2015-07-06 01:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Go find a new game. Isk for skills? Get out. Instant l5? Get out. This is not the game for you.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#290 - 2015-07-06 01:59:48 UTC
Copied from my thread blocked by zealous ISD:

Quote:
I propose that the skills required for these critical modules are reduced to 1x or even 0.5x multipliers with the bonuses conferred by these skills reduced. Then, an advanced version of the skill can be introduced that only increases the bonus of the skill (and doesn't unlock important modules). To avoid power creep, make sure that the total bonus of the old nerfed skill + the advanced skill = the bonus of the current skill. You could even make the total skill training time the same as currently therefore not giving an advantage to the people who have it trained already in training time.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#291 - 2015-07-06 02:36:23 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:


I really hate agreeing with Rivr, but yeah, he's said it. If you think removing these skills is the answer, then you need to find a different game. If you are unwilling to use these skills to teach new players the importance of training skills thoroughly, but would rather cut their knees out by handing them super freebies, then you also need to consider a new game. Further, you're not even in the same ball park with reality when you say there is no reason to have a skill if you start it at 3. Small hybrids 3 won't allow you to train T2 blasters, nor get the full 25% damage bonus from the skill. Same with the engineering skills. I would not be opposed to them having a faster train time or starting a higher level than they do, but removing them or granting them at 5 would be a bad decision. You can do PLENTY with them not at 5. Your opinion that they are 'mandatory' is also erroneous. You don't have to train them. You don't have to train weapons, drones, anything. You choose to. Your point is not a point. Have fun beating this dead horse.


I didn't say removing those skills was the answer... I said it would reduce the learning curve and increase how soon a newbro can become competitively engaged in the game.

As far as giving them lvl 3 of said skills, it's pointless because you're saving them all of maybe 5 hours per each skill.
You still would have close to a month of training time in order to be able to optimize fits or which ever attributes these skills effect.
The ships are fully capable of limiting these factors themselves, and we don't need these skills to add to the confusion.

As far as comparing these to blaster skills, that's not a valid comparison, as these are a dedication to a line of weaponry, which is optional. You can choose blasters, rails, arty, AC, assault missiles, guided missiles, etc. etc. etc...
However, if you're wanting to use ships for something more than shooting belt rats in HS, you're not doing it right if you don't max out the skills I listed. They are not optional... It doesn't matter what aspect of piloting you involve yourself in, if you're not building an optimized fit that requires these skills at max, then you fit is significantly hindered compared to your competition.

You didn't HAVE to train learning skills when they were around, but you'd be an idiot not to.
As CCP said then, and with med clones, it's an illusion of choice.. A choice between loss, or loss.... You either lose training time, or you lose fitting/efficiency capability.
Dedicating yourself to a ship line, or to a weapon line is one thing.


I also consider the end of your comment to be as troll as you can possibly get.
Of course training anything is optional, because the game is optional.
But, if you're playing the game and playing it with the intent of becoming better; then the skills I listed are non-negotiable.
You will need to train them at some point.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#292 - 2015-07-06 02:42:47 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
Don't be fooled by the bittervets. The SP system is a measure of how long you've had an account in good standing with CCP, and that's it.

It doesn't measure:

  1. Your skill in the game.
  2. Your adeptness at trading.
  3. Your combat proficiency.
  4. Your spaceship pixel gloriousness.
  5. Your e-peen.
  6. Your understanding of the underlying business realities of an MMO.
  7. Your status in the EVE community.


All SP means is that for every 2M you have, somebody paid CCP for a month's subscription. That is it.


Why then are you insisting that new players need to be given free SP, yet at the same time in your tirade above, suggesting that SP is meaningless.

And by the way, you are wrong on both points.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2015-07-06 03:42:46 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:


I didn't say removing those skills was the answer... I said it would reduce the learning curve and increase how soon a newbro can become competitively engaged in the game.

As far as giving them lvl 3 of said skills, it's pointless because you're saving them all of maybe 5 hours per each skill.
You still would have close to a month of training time in order to be able to optimize fits or which ever attributes these skills effect.
The ships are fully capable of limiting these factors themselves, and we don't need these skills to add to the confusion.

As far as comparing these to blaster skills, that's not a valid comparison, as these are a dedication to a line of weaponry, which is optional. You can choose blasters, rails, arty, AC, assault missiles, guided missiles, etc. etc. etc...
However, if you're wanting to use ships for something more than shooting belt rats in HS, you're not doing it right if you don't max out the skills I listed. They are not optional... It doesn't matter what aspect of piloting you involve yourself in, if you're not building an optimized fit that requires these skills at max, then you fit is significantly hindered compared to your competition.

You didn't HAVE to train learning skills when they were around, but you'd be an idiot not to.
As CCP said then, and with med clones, it's an illusion of choice.. A choice between loss, or loss.... You either lose training time, or you lose fitting/efficiency capability.
Dedicating yourself to a ship line, or to a weapon line is one thing.


I also consider the end of your comment to be as troll as you can possibly get.
Of course training anything is optional, because the game is optional.
But, if you're playing the game and playing it with the intent of becoming better; then the skills I listed are non-negotiable.
You will need to train them at some point.



Your considerations are invalid. You keep proving how little you actually understand. It doesn't matter if you save new players 5 minutes or 5 hours. If you grant skills at level 3, especially the beginning ones, you're giving them enough to work with, that they may get in, get their hands dirty, and decide what they want to train. You're giving them 15 of the maximum 25% bonus those skills offer, or 6 of the maximum 10, as the case applies. There is also no reason they can't be modified to train faster, s they don't take as long for Level 5, but in the same sentence, 4 days for capacitor systems operation 5 is not bad. There are ALOT of other things you should train before you train that skill to 5, and that is made more than evident by comparing skill times of say, gunnery 3 and 4 to capacitor sys. Op. 5. Comparing them to blasters is completely relevant. They are both skills that you can choose to train or not to train, and they both work on the percent per level basis.


Your belief that skills need to be removed because you don't see the point is absolutely incorrect. I'm really done wasting my time with you saying the same thing over and over and over. Broken record. And I was not trolling. I was being dead serious. You can choose, or NOT choose to train anything. No skills are mandatory. Undocking is not mandatory. In Eve, you either choose to do things, or you choose not to. You don't get given free stuff for choosing to not choose. If you can't get along with that, then please contract me your stuff and uninstall. If you play this game long enough, all skills are non-negotiable, because you run out of things to train. You are absolutely free to train anything in whatever order you want(allowance made for prerequisites). You can be completely effective in PVP without having a single weapons system trained. You can be completely effective in mining without being able to use a mining laser or mining drones, without being able to mine at all.


There is also a distinct difference between learning skills and these skills. Learning skills provided no benefit to ANY activity in Eve. There was not a single thing you could undock and do that would benefit from training learning skills. Most the skills on your list apply a direct benefit to something. The one or two that do not, looking again at Jury Rigging, by all means remove that. The others, no. They all apply a direct benefit to something(barring that one or two) and you don't HAVE to train them to play Eve. You are also not required to see the point of them for them to have a point that everyone else sees and accepts as truth.


Then you get the sense of accomplishment by being able to log back in on your second day and see 15 skills complete that you're suggesting needs to be taken away by taking those rank 1 skills away. That is an entirely different subject on its own. But also one you'll have to find someone else to discuss it with. I had my doubts about you to begin with, but now I'm quite certain, and will act accordingly to continued observation of yourself.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2015-07-06 04:21:08 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Then you get the sense of accomplishment by being able to log back in on your second day and see 15 skills complete
I realize that this is preaching to the ... anti-choir(?) ... but feeling a sense of accomplishment because you pressed a button yesterday afternoon isn't normal. EVE has attracted a lot of people who do get that sense of "accomplishment", but you'll note from EVE's abysmal retention stats that this isn't the normal state of affairs.

I get the idea of the relief that comes after doing something painful; it's a tradition steeped in Schopenhauer's pessimism. The SP system isn't some sort of trial by combat though. The pain isn't the struggle against some skill challenge, or the weight of some responsibility. The only thing you've managed to 'do' at the end of a skill train is not cancel your sub.

Conglaturation! A winner is you!

But please don't misunderstand - most people don't share your sense of "accomplishment".
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#295 - 2015-07-06 04:49:45 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
My favorite would just be removing SP entirely

I've been hearing this suggestion a lot lately and it's one of the worst ideas ever.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2015-07-06 04:52:10 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Aerasia wrote:
My favorite would just be removing SP entirely

I've been hearing this suggestion a lot lately and it's one of the worst ideas ever.


I hear SW:ToR is needing players pretty badly, or that new one, Elder Scrolls Online.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#297 - 2015-07-06 05:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Kenrailae wrote:

Your belief that skills need to be removed because you don't see the point is absolutely incorrect. I'm really done wasting my time with you saying the same thing over and over and over. Broken record. And I was not trolling. I was being dead serious. You can choose, or NOT choose to train anything. No skills are mandatory. Undocking is not mandatory. In Eve, you either choose to do things, or you choose not to. You don't get given free stuff for choosing to not choose. If you can't get along with that, then please contract me your stuff and uninstall. If you play this game long enough, all skills are non-negotiable, because you run out of things to train. You are absolutely free to train anything in whatever order you want(allowance made for prerequisites). You can be completely effective in PVP without having a single weapons system trained. You can be completely effective in mining without being able to use a mining laser or mining drones, without being able to mine at all.


What in the world are you going on about in this part of your comment?

I get that you and I don't agree, but this is just.... wow....

I would very much love to see a player that has retained an account with no trained skills and never having undocked,

See, it's this part of your last comment that made me think you're trolling.
You may not be intentionally trolling, but to consider that anyone would have an account that is basically used for nothing but chatting is just... wow...

I can understand not undocking, but if you're not at least training skills, then you're not playing the game, you're logging in... That's it.

I would also like to see who exactly you're explaining as completely effective at mining, if they're not even mining...
How does that work? Do they just smash into the roid until their hull is full? Cause if that was possible, that would be awesome, but also still considered mining.

I can understand you disagreeing with me, but don't try to marginalize every skill in the game as if they're nothing more than the skills I listed.
Sure, you don't have to train any of them, you also don't have to fit your Titan in order to Cyno it into the heart of enemy territory.
However,much like that Titan example, you'd be an idiot not to maximize those skills.

You push and push to say that they're not mandatory, but you and I both know that in the game of Eve, maximizing your capabilities is extremely important if you want to be competitive.
To me, it's like saying you don't need more than a 1st grade reading level in order to read The Art of War...
You may not need a higher reading level, but you're gonna have a whole lot of problems, and likely going to be skipping some words.
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
#298 - 2015-07-06 06:04:49 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Q: 'Attributes aren't very interesting, you should remove them'
A: Again, we agree. Team Size Matters discussed removing them on the o7 show (or some other public venue) awhile back and it's still something we are very interested in. We need to figure out a good way to handle all the learning implants in the game though, which is actually a difficult problem. If any of you have awesome ideas for how to handle it don't hesitate to make suggestions.


Dear CCP Rise,

may i. please, wonder about CCP plans of removing implants sets?
Of course, the Syndicate "Edge" set probably deserves this, but what about Snake or Slave sets or "newly" introduced Virtue and Ascendancy implants?
Knowing CCP's priority to get rid of older players I frankly expect: "The implants sets are removed. But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present." from you.

Could you, please, comment on your plans about existing implants sets?

Thanks
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#299 - 2015-07-06 06:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Yes. I want the idiots, CCP needs the idiots, and we all want the person to grow beyond being an idiot.

That's fine if you want them, and for all intend and purposes, CCP can also want them. But this lowest level of intelligence/curious drive should not be the indicator on where to move the game or the NPE to. Higher standards and a higher degree of implied independence from game provided help ought to be implied because this is what the game demands from you at later stages after you got addicted. However, if you want these "idiots" (quoted from Phoenix Jones) in the game, then you are obliged hereby to teach them and help them and support them to become less of an idiot and turn into an EVE player that actually contributes more to the game than paying CCP for useless and meaningless content, such as more money grabs aka SKINS.
Personally, however, I do not really need more BRAVE in the game to farm them. That is utterly unsatisfying. To me, "farming BRAVE" is akin to farming NPCs in the next Forsaken Hub. The only downside? BRAVE does not give me money for doing it. So, every time someone suggests going to BRAVE space to get some "action", I leave the fleet and rather go hunt NPC.

Aerasia, I wonder where I am wrong. I stated on multiple occasions that more SP does not help them at all. They can fly things faster they do not understand (impressively demonstrated by Phoenix Jones, I have to thank him for that) nor can they afford them. If that is improving the NPE in your opinion and I am wrong on it, then I rest my case. I also posted several ways or at least improvements to parts of the NPE that actually improve and better it. Whereas you and other people are so focused on SP, that you lose sight for what's really wrong with the matter. But by all means, continue to ride that train.

Joe Risalo, yes they would need to train them to become better at handling their tools. That is the entire purpose of the skills: You become better at what you do over time. However, I fail to see how this has anything to do with NPE. I conceded so far that can get more SP in some of the more vital core skills to have a wider variety of actions available to them right from the start. That's accomplished with giving them the skills at level 1 or 3 at the bottom of this list and only these. With these skills they could do every possible thing available in the game that's feasible to do for a newbie. Whether they are actually able to do something with the increased SP count, is highly questionable as evidently shown by Phoenix' reddit poster. Every other skill, that are mentioned in this list as well as by you all the time, are necessary skills to improve the performance of your tools over time. They have absolutely no connection to what the NPE is about.
As you stated wonderfully in your last post: One cannot read The Art of War with 1st grade reading comprehension. However, giving people 7th grade reading comprehension right from the start does not make them capable of reading or understanding The Art of War either. They might be able to read the letters, but they do not understand the meaning of them as they just see words and do not have the experience or knowledge to understand the deeper meaning and connection between them in this work. It is mandatory for a student to learn these meta skills by slowly and steadily improving the reading comprehension and many other personal skills. Same goes for the skills that you want to see rolled into a char right away.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2015-07-06 06:47:33 UTC
On the whole 20 minutes to work out midslots thing...if it took some 20 minutes to google 'EvE midslot fitting' or something similar this may not be the game for them...google is the most powerful module in EvE!