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Eve 1v1 pvp only system.
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Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-07-05 12:27:30 UTC
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:
]and if you make eve a sandbox game having 0 sec rulse ower all of eve it wil kill of eve within a year by the same people claming it is a sandbox game



fun fact one....this has been the basis for eve Is dying threads since I started years ago in apoc expansion.

fun fact two....we are already there with the moon goo. When massive wars start up see moon goo price fluctuate mild to wild. when the moon pos' are a popping even an empire bear's marauder catches some of that meta action on price increases. Smart players not even in the war then get the subtle hint to speculate these moon goo based markets. So even 0.0's games can work out for those not even in them.

fun fact three...except for known use of FW alts there are many areas where the "evil" 0.0 types don't bother much to play in. And with FW...most times they want the farming not the pvp. They are getting pvp on the main, the alt there to help pay for it really.

Find the venues that buck this trend basically . I'd recommend wh's...t3 is a market they control less. Its made many non 0.0 types happy and content players. In terms of game play to include PVP.


baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2015-07-05 12:46:21 UTC
Sounds like the OP want to play STO.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#43 - 2015-07-05 18:40:53 UTC
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
EVE is a sandbox, why should the sandbox be limited to suit an incredibly narrow viewpoint shared by a minority of players? Ask anyone who knows this game, if you find yourself in a fair fight, at least one of you has made a terrible mistake.
and if you make eve a sandbox game having 0 sec rulse ower all of eve it wil kill of eve within a year by the same people claming it is a sandbox game,thers a good reseon thers almost non sanbox games ther will alwaye be those going after new players and by doing so they kill of the income less new players will staye and after a time iven less want to tray it,and then older players start to live to doe to lack of new content sins ther is no mony to invest in it.
Unless you have facts to back up your assertion that new players are being targeted and as a result, Eve has less new players and CCP less income, please stop touting it here. It's an old lie and one that has data firmly against it.

Eve is a Sandbox. It's been this way since day one. What I find incredible, is people like yourself starting to play, then wanting to change it. Like I suggested with the chess analogy, you may not like certain aspects of the game. Such as how pieces move. But to change that, changes the core of the game and that's not what Eve needs or requires.

Eve gives each and everyone the tools to succeed in what ever they wish to do. It also gives each and everyone the tools to try and stop other doing the same. We all have the same walls and rules.

What this and every thread like it wants, is to place mechanical restrictions and rules on others. Instead of using the tools already proved, to do it themselves.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Zenoidan
Players vs. EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-07-06 15:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenoidan
If you want WoW arena's, go play wow. I hate to be that guy, but instanced PvP has no place in Eve and never will. Eve is as many other's have stated here...a sandbox. A sandbox that is not always fair to you. You deal with that, or you move on. Over the years many of us have accepted that and adapted to Eve's harsh rules and reality. So generally you will get zero sympathy from that crowd.

To come here and suggest the cliche "wow did this, we should do it too!" Is an insult to mose.

Lets see how thats worked out for games:

Wildstar copied the WoW model. How is it doing now?

Star wars copied the WoW model. How is it doing now?

Eve does not need an instanced arena. I do agree Off Grid Boosting needs to be fixed, tweaked, or go for good. But If it came down to either picking instanced PvP or Off Grid boosting, ill take OGBing any day of the week.

What Eve really needs to do is lower the barrier of entry to the game by giving new players more SP in core skills. CCP recently stated they are doing just that. Looking into giving new players 1-2m SP in core skills when they first start instead of 500k.

This lowers the time it takes to actually get into the game.

What they really need to do is also balance FW to the following, because in its current state its far from newbro friendly:

Novice plexes: T1/Faction frigs only. NO PIRATE FRIGS ALLOWED.

Small: Pirate frigs, T2 frigs, t1 destroyers. NO t3 DESTROYERS ALLOWED.

Medium. Cruisers, Faction cruisers, T3 destroyers. NO t3 cruisers/pirate cruisers allowed.

Large: Everything else.

I doubt they could make Off Grid boosts turn off in Plexes do to legacy code, but if they could they should. It would be a start to fixing the OGB problem. However with programs like Pirates little helper, links are easy to spot, and you can choose not to fight.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-07-06 15:27:16 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:
The only way to ensure true 1v1 without interference would be to create instanced locations, or locked deadspace rooms, where only 2 pilots are allowed through the gate.

Safe spots.

Leto Aramaus wrote:
To channel my inner "F&I Naysayer"... If you want 1v1s and otherwise fair fights, it's your job to arrange this. Set up fights with people you trust, or don't. Run a giant 0.0 empire, and designate one of your sov systems as the "1v1" system where only honorable 1v1 fights are allowed, and Alliance enforcers make sure the rules are followed.

The highlighted parts would actually be something that would change my perception on Null sec players quite considerably for the better. It would be something where players really create something real, meaningful and not just (another) bearing reservation.


Why the **** would I enforce a rule when I can just curbstomp the tard who agreed to come 1v1 in a system I own by dropping a fleet on him?

Is this some e-bushido?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#46 - 2015-07-07 00:00:40 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
To mare wrote:
when you request a duel there should be an option to prevent the involved parties from receving remote rep or links boosts, that way you could truly have a real 1v1.
ofc people with right to do so and gankers wont be prevented to shoot any of the 2 or it would be exploited


You can truly have a 1v1 on SiSi.

Not the same thing and you know that, but I am surprised that you posted this.

Wondering how you think it would hurt the game if there was an option that made a dual a true 1 v 1 situation if both players were allowed to opt out once the 1 v 1 option was asked for by either?

I also find myself wondering why it is that the PvP crowed is always so quick to turn thumbs down on something that might increase the amount of PvP in the game?

I know a fair number of players that would PvP , or would do so more often if there was some way of restricting or eliminating the scourge of mass off grid boosts etc that have become common place in many PvP encounters so maybe an option like this is a good thing to look into.


Because my PvP is messing with your PvP, and your PvE and your game in general. One of my biggest attractions to this game is that I can mess with you at anytime, and at the same time anyone can mess with me.

That said, I dislike all non-mining boosting. Offgrid or not.

A 'true' 1v1 is a fight with pre-set conditions, rules, parameters. its not sandbox and I personally feel that a 'true' 1v1 is as 'fake' as any preorganised practice fight on SiSi.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#47 - 2015-07-08 01:25:09 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Unless you have facts to back up your assertion that new players are being targeted and as a result, Eve has less new players and CCP less income, please stop touting it here. It's an old lie and one that has data firmly against it.

OK I have to call BS on this as my kids say. The dev blog posted relative to this clearly stated that the evidence collect indicated that ganking (non-consensual PvP) was not a factor in new player retention. There is a significant difference between indicated and stated as fact. Before you jump all over me about this little nit pick, I personally do not consider gankings (non-consensual PvP) as a factor in new player retention, other than some wide spread cases I have witnessed but hey there will always be some of that.

Daichi Yamato wrote:
Because my PvP is messing with your PvP, and your PvE and your game in general. One of my biggest attractions to this game is that I can mess with you at anytime, and at the same time anyone can mess with me.

That said, I dislike all non-mining boosting. Offgrid or not.

A 'true' 1v1 is a fight with pre-set conditions, rules, parameters. its not sandbox and I personally feel that a 'true' 1v1 is as 'fake' as any preorganised practice fight on SiSi.


I agree with all of this but you still have not answered how having a true 1 v 1 option available as part of the current dueling mechanic would harm the game? As the one issuing the dual you would have the right to rescind the dual request when the true 1 v 1 option was requested and at that point you still have all the other options open to you.

If the game continues to lose paying players faster than they can attract them CCP will face a serious decision at some point in the near future. Further restrict PvP and ganking in high sec in an effort to keep the cash flowing, or ultimately shutting down this game we all love. If you were faced with more severe restrictions on PvP / ganking on high sec or no EvE at all I wonder what all of your would choose?

And yes people it is possible. A little over 2 years ago when the corp this character is in was formed we routinely had 35,000 to 40,000 players online in my prime gaming time, now we are lucky to have 15,000 to 20,000. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to see that this ia a very bad trend, one that needs to be reversed. Yes indeed I agree with those that would post it Fozzie Sov and a rejuvenated nul sec are critical components of this so we will have to wait and see what happens.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#48 - 2015-07-08 13:30:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Because it means the ways that I can mess with you are reduced. That means risk, and therefore fun, is reduced.

Its not enough that I can decline these bear-duels. We should be able to deceive other players into an unfair fight as well as interrupt other players trying to have a private fight. Its one of the core principals of EVE.

The game was doing fine when PvP was unrestricted. It was growing until ganking was nerfed to hell, until awoxing was nerfed, until wardecs were nerfed. Its precisely this fun sucking carebearing that is removing interesting playstyles and making the game dull, causing people young and old to leave.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Anthar Thebess
#49 - 2015-07-08 13:54:40 UTC
The only real 1vs1 in EVE is when a tornado or vexor meets few bil t1 indy ship Roll

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
davet517
Raata Invicti
#50 - 2015-07-08 15:33:09 UTC
Eve is warfare, not honorable dueling. The death penalty is fairly harsh, and it makes players risk averse. Most avoid a "fair fight" at all costs, and only take fights that they perceive to be stacked in their favor.

Start yourself a dueling club, if you want "fair" fights. Advertise it, get some members, and go to town. If someone cheats, don't duel with them anymore. You could probably drum up a good deal of interest in it among newbros. Spam in starter systems a bit for members.

Good luck.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2015-07-08 18:44:22 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Technically, there is already a mechanic for 1v1. You can go duel anyone, anywhere. Yes this still allows people to sort of "cheat" by the other guy's friends remote repping him, but then you can counter with your own friends.

The only way to ensure true 1v1 without interference would be to create instanced locations, or locked deadspace rooms, where only 2 pilots are allowed through the gate.

To channel my inner "F&I Naysayer"... If you want 1v1s and otherwise fair fights, it's your job to arrange this. Set up fights with people you trust, or don't. Run a giant 0.0 empire, and designate one of your sov systems as the "1v1" system where only honorable 1v1 fights are allowed, and Alliance enforcers make sure the rules are followed.

EVE is a sandbox. Content is player created, can't rely on CCP to force rules for you. FW plexes were already a suprising stretch, IMO.


Ok why the hell a duel cannot exclude any outside interference? In HS remote repping should trigger concord response, and duel should be only possible if you are outside of a fleet.



If remote repping triggered CONCORD, incursions would be impossible.

And what if you want to duel a fleet? Or a fleetmate?


EVE is a sandbox, why should the sandbox be limited to suit an incredibly narrow viewpoint shared by a minority of players? Ask anyone who knows this game, if you find yourself in a fair fight, at least one of you has made a terrible mistake.


Like I said: to duel u would need be outside fleet. Since in incursions u are in a fleet I see no problem.

And what if you want to duel a fleet? Or a fleetmate? You fly to low-sec, null-sec or declare a war. There are tools for that already. There is no tool for a fair 1vs1 duel.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#52 - 2015-07-08 19:45:23 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Like I said: to duel u would need be outside fleet. Since in incursions u are in a fleet I see no problem.

And what if you want to duel a fleet? Or a fleetmate? You fly to low-sec, null-sec or declare a war. There are tools for that already. There is no tool for a fair 1vs1 duel.


The concept of guaranteed "fair fights" isn't something that ever has, nor ever will exist in EVE
Iain Cariaba
#53 - 2015-07-08 20:04:59 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
There is no tool for a fair 1vs1 duel.

If you're ever in a fair fight, you both ****** up.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#54 - 2015-07-08 20:14:26 UTC
Easier just to make the current duel system truly 1v1.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2015-07-08 21:26:13 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Easier just to make the current duel system truly 1v1.



No, that would be impossible.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-07-08 21:29:19 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Easier just to make the current duel system truly 1v1.



No, that would be impossible.


And if the current duel system were truly 1v1, I could just duel an alt and fly 100% risk free through any system
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2015-07-09 10:26:03 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Easier just to make the current duel system truly 1v1.



No, that would be impossible.


And if the current duel system were truly 1v1, I could just duel an alt and fly 100% risk free through any system


What, what, what? Duel as a fair 1vs1 tool should and could only work like this in hi sec (I don’t see concord anywhere else, do you?)
Why it cannot happen is beyond me. Do you guys see any logical reason why it should not be a part of a game? does it break any other type of PvP? I don't think so. Does it provide pvp for those who don’t want to go null or low? Yes. So? What is the problem.

As a WH pilot I don’t see a problem that I can have some pvp while I do my groceries in hi sec...
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#58 - 2015-07-09 13:47:23 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Because it means the ways that I can mess with you are reduced. That means risk, and therefore fun, is reduced.

Its not enough that I can decline these bear-duels. We should be able to deceive other players into an unfair fight as well as interrupt other players trying to have a private fight. Its one of the core principals of EVE.

Dueling is a worthless mechanic outside of high sec and it would surprise me if anyone has EVER used it outside of high sec. I should not have to remind you but I guess you forgot this little tid bit so here goes. In high sec you cannot crash someone else's PvP without Concord putting an end to your party crashing behaviors and very quickly at that so I still cannot see how having a true 1 v 1 option as part of a dual will change anything in any significant way.

Since you have clearly stated right here in this topic that you do not like offgrid boosts and other PvP related shenanigans I have an even harder time understanding your hate of an OPTIONAL true 1 v 1 as part of the dual mechanic.

I would counter your statement by saying recent changes to war decs and the elimination of the can flipping portion of the game have had more significant and far reaching affects on high sec PvP than the ganking nerfs ever have or ever will and I am still not sure why CCP changed either of them.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#59 - 2015-07-09 17:51:56 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Dueling is a worthless mechanic outside of high sec and it would surprise me if anyone has EVER used it outside of high sec.


And if concord spawned wherever a duel was interfered with id start dueling my alt and then go into low sec with a brick maller for the luls.

Donnachadh wrote:
I should not have to remind you but I guess you forgot this little tid bit so here goes. In high sec you cannot crash someone else's PvP without Concord putting an end to your party crashing behaviors and very quickly at that so I still cannot see how having a true 1 v 1 option as part of a dual will change anything in any significant way.

Since you have clearly stated right here in this topic that you do not like offgrid boosts and other PvP related shenanigans I have an even harder time understanding your hate of an OPTIONAL true 1 v 1 as part of the dual mechanic.



Logi and i dont want boosting kept out of duels, i want it removed entirely. But as long as it does exist, it should take effect in duels and make the booster go suspect.

Same as wardecs.

Playing dirty is part of the game. A concord response for tipping the scales or messing with peoples duel/wardecs is not going to happen. Instead, why dont players learn to fight back?

Cassius Invictus wrote:


As a WH pilot I don’t see a problem that I can have some pvp while I do my groceries in hi sec...


Nothing is stopping you from doing this already.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#60 - 2015-07-10 02:03:11 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Playing dirty is part of the game. A concord response for tipping the scales or messing with peoples duel/wardecs is not going to happen. Instead, why dont players learn to fight back?

You really do not understand how things work in high sec do you.
There are very few ways that you can shoot someone in high sec that will not trigger a Concord response.
If they are -5 or below.
If the corp you are in has a valid war dec against the corp your target is in.
If your target has a criminal flag for any reason.
That's it, in any other situation in high sec if you shoot someone Concord will respond and end your party with extreme prejudice.

In the act of extending and then a player accepting a dual they are agreeing to fight to the end between them and in doing so neither of them will gain a criminal flag for their actions in the dual. If you happen upon this dual in progress and want to "mess" with them then you are still bound by the limits above. If the player you choose to attack does not meet these criteria then you will get that Concord visit. And please take note that I am now and in this topic I always have limited my responses to the dueling mechanic and not PvP in general.

Why won't people just learn to fight back, why does it always come back to this?
Those who want to fight can and do fight back, IF and there is the big IF they think they have a chance to win the fight,otherwise they are like every other PvP player I have ever seen and they turn tail and run away if the can.

For the rest of the players all I can do is shake my head in total disbelief.
Why would they want to get into a fight with you when they know they have NO chance of success?
Since they do not want to fight you in the first place why would they dock up, change ships and then un-dock again when they can simply log off and be done with the likes of you for the moment?