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Crime & Punishment

 
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Thunderdome - July 2015 series!
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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#401 - 2015-08-25 11:55:25 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Should do some matches with no implants for poors that don't want to spend a billion ISK on a pirate set.

I would like to participate in one of these at some point. But it looks like mobility is the defining factor, and snakes are expensive.

Thinking about fits that aren't limited to long point range is...strange.

I'm 90% sure I did my match with a set of +4's that was fitted with med blaster implant and other things designed to support a Proteus completely useless for a hull tanked vni with neuts. Implant's will only make the difference in close situations. For everything else scissors/paper/rock

I've done all of my matches using straight-up +3s or +4s (No pirate sets or Genolutions) and nothing ending with a number higher than "3" in the remaining slots. I've also used synth boosters for one fight (but mainly because, like Leto, I apparently have a hard time remembering to take them). One fight relied quite heavily on my implants and boosters to work, but even then the overall cost was pretty low.

To date, I don't think anyone has been podded in Thunderdome. I personally don't even try as a matter of courtesy. Should we consider incorporating that as a rule for future brackets?


Well, nobody had snakes last night. I used a crystal pod that I have had for a few years, yes, its probly around 500m, but risk. My other slots were regular missile bonus plugs.

I have never even attempted to target a pod in thunderdome, and on both of my wins, I have offered the loot back to the loser. This isn't about money, its about content and learning, and I daresay community.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#402 - 2015-08-25 14:00:12 UTC
I jumped into the wrong clone before the match and forgot to check implants. I also left my drugs in Amarr. Unless you end up fighting a near perfect mirror match I'm confident saying other factors will more strongly determine the outcome than implants.

Had I remembered to change my tracking computer to optimal script at the start, some of my early shots might have landed.

Had I overheated my guns earlier (they only had %10 heat damage when I died) I might have won.

While implants would have helped, the difference between +3's and +5's likely wouldn't have mattered too much.

Most of the matches are purely fit wins, so unless the fit requires a particular implant to work, it will rarely be the deciding factor.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#403 - 2015-08-25 20:15:38 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Video of the fight from an observer's standpoint, along with my commentary for what it's worth, will be available here once it finishes processing.

I gotta say, this one was really fun to watch. Right up until the end I wasn't sure who was gonna win.


Great video. :D

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Lodestone Toyee
BLACK FOX COLLECTIVE
#404 - 2015-08-25 20:52:22 UTC
Really nice fights and fits guys, this is some quality content.
I'm getting really nervous now :)

On the note of implants, I've not used any full sets either (in my fight with Lan I was trying to get a snake set but turned out to be too poor to afford them all :D)

I think the current Thunderdome rules allow for good competition without draining people's wallets (unless they want to spend lots of isk).

I could bring all T1 ships to thunderdome and still have a good chance of winning if I did my theorycrafting correctly. Even if I didn't win, I would still get precious pvp experience and some good fights.

Thunderdome is like a good road trip where most of the fun is not arriving at your destination, but seeing the sights and doing cool stuff along the way.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#405 - 2015-08-25 20:56:52 UTC
Lodestone Toyee wrote:
Really nice fights and fits guys, this is some quality content.
I'm getting really nervous now :)

On the note of implants, I've not used any full sets either (in my fight with Lan I was trying to get a snake set but turned out to be too poor to afford them all :D)

I think the current Thunderdome rules allow for good competition without draining people's wallets (unless they want to spend lots of isk).

I could bring all T1 ships to thunderdome and still have a good chance of winning if I did my theorycrafting correctly. Even if I didn't win, I would still get precious pvp experience and some good fights.

Thunderdome is like a good road trip where most of the fun is not arriving at your destination, but seeing the sights and doing cool stuff along the way.


Exactly this.

Moreover, to date, id be remiss if I didnt point out that MOST of the expensive stuff dies in a fire. My Cyclone T2 fit was a good 110M tops, while Tengu's faction variant cleared 200m. Its all about how, what, and why. Did my implants help? Yeah, probably. Could he have smoked me without them? There is a chance.

But there is also a chance he fit a smartbomb for the express purpose of blapping my pod if I died.

Risk vs reward people. The core concept of what EVE is suppose to be.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#406 - 2015-08-25 22:39:56 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Lodestone Toyee wrote:
Really nice fights and fits guys, this is some quality content.
I'm getting really nervous now :)

On the note of implants, I've not used any full sets either (in my fight with Lan I was trying to get a snake set but turned out to be too poor to afford them all :D)

I think the current Thunderdome rules allow for good competition without draining people's wallets (unless they want to spend lots of isk).

I could bring all T1 ships to thunderdome and still have a good chance of winning if I did my theorycrafting correctly. Even if I didn't win, I would still get precious pvp experience and some good fights.

Thunderdome is like a good road trip where most of the fun is not arriving at your destination, but seeing the sights and doing cool stuff along the way.


Exactly this.

Moreover, to date, id be remiss if I didnt point out that MOST of the expensive stuff dies in a fire. My Cyclone T2 fit was a good 110M tops, while Tengu's faction variant cleared 200m. Its all about how, what, and why. Did my implants help? Yeah, probably. Could he have smoked me without them? There is a chance.

But there is also a chance he fit a smartbomb for the express purpose of blapping my pod if I died.

Risk vs reward people. The core concept of what EVE is suppose to be.


I considered the smart bomb with the spare high slot, but to clear drones not to pod anyone. It actually would have been good in this case as I very likely could have cleared your drones either before they managed to get a jam off, or shortly after, ending it early.

Also it was closer to 280 I think.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2015-08-26 02:12:04 UTC
I'm less worried about getting podded than forgetting I have implants in and taking them back to Tama with me.

I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#408 - 2015-08-26 03:09:07 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I'm less worried about getting podded than forgetting I have implants in and taking them back to Tama with me.

I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

sniper fits can be countered

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#409 - 2015-08-26 03:10:13 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I'm less worried about getting podded than forgetting I have implants in and taking them back to Tama with me.

I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

sniper fits can be countered


Especially with BC's. MJD and all. Or even the deployables (which we havent seen yet).

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#410 - 2015-08-26 04:03:34 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I'm less worried about getting podded than forgetting I have implants in and taking them back to Tama with me.

I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

sniper fits can be countered


Especially with BC's. MJD and all. Or even the deployables (which we havent seen yet).


So what do I have to do to participate in this?
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#411 - 2015-08-26 07:42:14 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I'm less worried about getting podded than forgetting I have implants in and taking them back to Tama with me.

I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

sniper fits can be countered


Especially with BC's. MJD and all. Or even the deployables (which we havent seen yet).


So what do I have to do to participate in this?

Sign up on the next one. likely in october at this rate Blink

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#412 - 2015-08-26 11:56:59 UTC
I know right.

Get your matches moving people!

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#413 - 2015-08-26 12:44:04 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

The issue with sniper fits is that you have to also be able to deal with someone who gets in under your guns. That means tank and tackle, or being mobile enough to dictate range for the entire fight, which makes fitting a bit interesting. A typical fleet sniper fit would likely die in a fire in Thunderdome.

The benefit to short/medium range fits is always DPS, and if Thunderdome has taught me anything it's that DPS is secondary to tactics.

Leto Thule wrote:
I know right.

Get your matches moving people!

The first battleship match is happening before week's end. If this one keeps to recent trends, the victor will be at about 5% structure with all modules 90% burnt and nearly out of ammo and Noragen will be rolling around on the ground screaming at the monitor after he watches the video. Blink

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#414 - 2015-08-26 13:54:14 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I have been surprised frankly that anyone used short/medium range fits when there's no drawback to sniper fits unless you get caught.

The issue with sniper fits is that you have to also be able to deal with someone who gets in under your guns. That means tank and tackle, or being mobile enough to dictate range for the entire fight, which makes fitting a bit interesting. A typical fleet sniper fit would likely die in a fire in Thunderdome.

The benefit to short/medium range fits is always DPS, and if Thunderdome has taught me anything it's that DPS is secondary to tactics.

Leto Thule wrote:
I know right.

Get your matches moving people!

The first battleship match is happening before week's end. If this one keeps to recent trends, the victor will be at about 5% structure with all modules 90% burnt and nearly out of ammo and Noragen will be rolling around on the ground screaming at the monitor after he watches the video. Blink


It's not really yours I was talking about... But I can't wait to see that one.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#415 - 2015-08-26 13:58:19 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
It's not really yours I was talking about... But I can't wait to see that one.

I see how you are. You only love me for my chrome dome.

Admit it.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#416 - 2015-08-26 19:01:04 UTC
So, I have a question for the Thunderdome committee:

What do we do in the event of a draw? I feel as if such an eventuality is highly unlikely in the combat ship rounds, but in the industrial/barge round it's pretty trivial to put together a fit that can perma-tank far more DPS than any ship in the class can put out.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#417 - 2015-08-26 21:47:07 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
So, I have a question for the Thunderdome committee:

What do we do in the event of a draw? I feel as if such an eventuality is highly unlikely in the combat ship rounds, but in the industrial/barge round it's pretty trivial to put together a fit that can perma-tank far more DPS than any ship in the class can put out.


First person to batphone a squadron of CODE. gankers to vanquish their foe wins?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#418 - 2015-08-26 23:26:22 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
So, I have a question for the Thunderdome committee:

What do we do in the event of a draw? I feel as if such an eventuality is highly unlikely in the combat ship rounds, but in the industrial/barge round it's pretty trivial to put together a fit that can perma-tank far more DPS than any ship in the class can put out.

We lynch Leto for making a **** round Blink.

Then we revert to the ever trusty cruiser round imo. TBH it would be madness not to fit a Skiff (Procurer does it too but unlike the Skiff you can't simply go afk). Those reduced to t1 indies the nereus can also fit an AFK tank it's downside is a complete lack of DPS. Still 400 ehps is more then enough to perma tank

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#419 - 2015-08-27 01:43:50 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
So, I have a question for the Thunderdome committee:

What do we do in the event of a draw? I feel as if such an eventuality is highly unlikely in the combat ship rounds, but in the industrial/barge round it's pretty trivial to put together a fit that can perma-tank far more DPS than any ship in the class can put out.

We lynch Leto for making a **** round Blink.

Then we revert to the ever trusty cruiser round imo. TBH it would be madness not to fit a Skiff (Procurer does it too but unlike the Skiff you can't simply go afk). Those reduced to t1 indies the nereus can also fit an AFK tank it's downside is a complete lack of DPS. Still 400 ehps is more then enough to perma tank


Yeah I'll admit it sounded good at the time... But maybe not in practice.

But the bracket does say barge/industry t1, faction... So nobody should be flying a skiff.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#420 - 2015-08-27 02:49:19 UTC
Madness to fit anything else

The all t2/meta version still does 600 and 300 without the invuls

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin