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People complaining about boosters

First post
Author
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#21 - 2015-06-23 21:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

As per usual, the main problem is the players choices, not the game as such.


Sadly that player choice is: Dont engage, bring your booster alt or join a fleet.

There should be a real option to do solo PvP. I dont have time to find a fleet to roam with every day, that means i do PvE instead since that is something i can do whenever i feel like it without having to bring an army online (suicide PvP is only fun the first 1-2 times, good fights are fun every time)


There is a real option to do solo pvp. Just undock and go fight. Its not supposed to be easy, or fair. You are supposed to kill or die then say gf regardless.

Fact is that eve is an mmo. Its amazing how many people are constantly searching for this solo nirvana in a game that isnt build for it.

If you just want to log on and do some meaningless 1v1s, go to a trade hub and check to see whos doing legit duels.

Or join a proper pvp corp in your timezone and you wont have to spend ages looking for a fleet.
Varrinox
Red Sky Morning
Local Is Primary
#22 - 2015-06-23 21:21:06 UTC
There is no need to directly quote me when I am the post above you.

I agree the game should not be "balanced" around solo. Interactions with players in a friendly and hostile manner are at its core. In my experience willing FCs are the single biggest content generator in EvE by a margin of about........ 1923418927349127863410246178256107235 to 1.

But equally the game should not be "balanced" around purely fleet work or small medium gangs.
We all know the "glorious" huge fleet fights that often make headlines in the gaming community are actually huge lag fests that in terms of minute to minute game play are incredibly boring. Also the majority of content that currently exists is within the solo/small-medium gang meta, not large fleet. Not to mention the obnoxiously long form up times for bigger fleets.

Balanced in gaming terms usually means - Every avatar, in our case ships, and players are at equal footing.
This is a sandbox MMORPG. There is no "balanced" in the normal sense in my opinion.
Every pilot can at some point fulfill every roll, no need for tedious "my ships is bad etc". Racial homogenization is one of the biggest potential failures of any ship designs possible.

Before this becomes a discussion about EvE in general and not just boosters I will try to get us back on the rails here Crosi.

Offgrid boosters, the only kind that are an issue, have a far bigger impact on the solo and small gang meta than at fleet level.
Most fleets can find some players to provide boosters so all participants on all sides of all fights can be on that playing field.
The pilots who enjoy lone wolfing, or just a group of a few friends non of whom have alts and all want to be on grid in direct combat ships are at a massive disadvantage to those who use a separate account somewhere else in system to give them an advantage that is largely hidden until the engagement has begun.

I will add my main gripe with them is that as someone who tries to encourage new players in to PvP and often has no access to links fighting people with them is tedious and demoralizing. the lengths we have to go to as a group to stop them able to essentially 2v10 us. Demoralizing because, whilst a few losses here and there is fine, people like to win at least some of the time. It is almost the new guys who die over and over again in such a short in equal manner that it teachers them nothing about PvP really other than "this guy>me".

Anyway, I find that in general these kind of discussions are somewhat pointless as CCP pays little to no attention to general forums posts and as such all this is for nothing. I suggest you all go about your previous business and forget about this post. I shall continue not logging in and generally being a bit bitter about EvE in general.

I bid you good day.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#23 - 2015-06-23 21:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Every avatar is not at an equal footing, by design.

So yes, boosters are great for fleets (the vast majority of content), but not so good for solo (niche content for those that want a challenge).

Small gangs that are not well prepared being at a disadvantage to small gangs that are, doesnt seem to be a problem to me.

So in your scenario, you do not have access to boosters, and you fly with new chars to fight people who do have boosters. Seems like a problem with target selection to me.

Personally, i think if you are losing 10v2, you are scapegoating the booster or making a misjudgement of what your gang is capable of. And you ignore the fact that those 2 guys probably have more experience than your fleet of newbs dozens of times over and blame the boosts instead.
Lucy Callagan
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#24 - 2015-06-23 21:37:20 UTC
Why do discutions on this forums only (or at least mainly) go around low sec ?

I mean, maybe offgrid boosters are broken in low sec, I dont know, i dont pvp here.

But in null sec and whs, OGB are just fine and don't need any nerf.

For a solo pilot:
You go roam in other people's "home". They have all here, stations, jump bridges, poses etc... All what you don't have.
Having an ogb alt allows you to:
ArrowAvoid gate camps.
ArrowReequilibrate fights.
Arrowsometime ninja tackle ratter and start fight that way.

As a small gang group.
Again, they just allow your gang to be a bit more powerful and reequilibrate fights.

And OGB are already hard enought to manage. Every time i go up for a fleet everyone is having an argue about who is going to bring its link alt this time ? Why ? Because it's utterly annoying to manage (especially if you're monoscreen). When you find an engagement, you got to start the fight with your main ship, warp off make a safe or go on a gate where there is no npc, check combats, or check if there is not a nasty alpha nado la ding o your gate, bear you mates request "where the **** are the links man", "dude squad 2 is not getting link", "move me to squad leader positions". Usually, once all that is set, either you've lost your ship cause you were to focused on where to position your links. Either you had to bail cause you couldn't tank/hold/counter ewar either the fight is already finished. So no nerf needed here.

I can understand that static links staying on a low sec station all the day can be a problem. A good solution for that could be that you cannot run links unless you're like 5 or 10km off a station.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-06-23 22:22:47 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:

I can understand that static links staying on a low sec station all the day can be a problem. A good solution for that could be that you cannot run links unless you're like 5 or 10km off a station.


Or add a timer so you cant dock/jump gate instant after using links. This would mean that you have to pay watch your booster and most of the time it would likely be easier to just bring it on grid for a chance to keep it "safe". Command ships are natural bricks, if someone kill your booster while your logi is alive they would easily kill any other ship you bring on grid, most combat ships are tanked like a wet paper bag compared to what CS can do
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2015-06-24 11:42:30 UTC
...or probe / gate camp a booster with cruiser fleet with logic... not many are required

plus, if u leave proper tackle on both sides, jumping would not prevent death

given the amount of isks that ppl put in creating their links toons (training queues=plex=isk -> ship is not the only risks there) their strength seems to me not op

i don't have boosters

i avoid or kill boosters

or use other's boosters

i just play the game

shall we nerf implants? shall we nerf what?

many seem to want an easier game... then i think they are bad: instead of accepting the challenge or letting others have their game, they want easy times... seems not like eve to me
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2015-06-24 11:44:15 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
lol

you can't kill a booster and you think you are not bad?

something is wrong here...



How you suggest killing boosters for solo/small gang players when they can instantly dock or jump gate, or need perfect skill prober with implants to find quickly?



so?
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2015-06-24 11:45:09 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
Are just bad players.

It is like complaining about being blobbed.

Shall we remove fleets?

lol

P


People defending boosters are jsut bad PvPers that need the extra help.

See i can also make post with no meaning or backing...


i must learn from you how to back my assertions :D
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2015-06-24 11:45:55 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
Are just bad players.

It is like complaining about being blobbed.

Shall we remove fleets?

lol

P


Blobs come onto the field ... boosters don't Roll


so?
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2015-06-24 11:48:18 UTC
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
Off grid boosters are the same principle as 'Skynetting', vastly increased combat performance for negligible risk.

I expect it will be nerfed/removed by CCP eventually just as Skynetting was.



training booster = lots of isks
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2015-06-24 11:49:43 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


Do you get bored of being the 49th highest damage on a killmail or do you find it fulfilling?



do you really need 49 people to kill one booster?

lol
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2015-06-24 11:51:25 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:



How you suggest killing boosters for solo/small gang players when they can instantly dock or jump gate, or need perfect skill prober with implants to find quickly?



i am sorry your fleet can't kill a booster. try with something else :P

i can't kill a booster either... unless i join some ppl i know who sometimes kill em.. for great joy :D
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2015-06-24 11:52:30 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
I hate the fact that I always need some crappy alt sitting off grid somewhere with links, which I have to drag around with me just because CCP likes subscriptions from alts. fannoying.


there is nothing forcing you to do it... i am not doing it
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2015-06-24 11:54:53 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

As per usual, the main problem is the players choices, not the game as such.


Sadly that player choice is: Dont engage, bring your booster alt or join a fleet.

There should be a real option to do solo PvP. I dont have time to find a fleet to roam with every day, that means i do PvE instead since that is something i can do whenever i feel like it without having to bring an army online (suicide PvP is only fun the first 1-2 times, good fights are fun every time)


not everybody has a booster. if u engage someone you must gather intel on it or run the risk of getting screwed...

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-06-24 15:41:53 UTC
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
...or probe / gate camp a booster with cruiser fleet with logic... not many are required

plus, if u leave proper tackle on both sides, jumping would not prevent death

given the amount of isks that ppl put in creating their links toons (training queues=plex=isk -> ship is not the only risks there) their strength seems to me not op

i don't have boosters

i avoid or kill boosters

or use other's boosters

i just play the game

shall we nerf implants? shall we nerf what?

many seem to want an easier game... then i think they are bad: instead of accepting the challenge or letting others have their game, they want easy times... seems not like eve to me


Implants are a risk. A shiny pod is often multiple times more expensive than links ship and pods face risk from many directions including bubbles (in null/WH), instalockers, and Santo.

Meanwhile OGB is pay to win "make my ship awesome" button that has minimum claim on pilot's attention span, unlike probing which requires actual input and is extremely difficult to do while also multiboxing a frigate in pitched battle. That anyone would suggest there is a balancing equivalent between a mostly afk booster and a prober that must be actively and skillfully managed to find it is pretty laughable.

I'm not even calling for boosters to be removed. For small raiding parties going into enemy territory where the enemy blob has a brick tanked CS hugging station, the T3 links need to be an option.

But putting links on killmails would be a good start. It would disincentivize their use as a hidden trump card for lowsec killboard greening. Put them on mails and add at least a weapons timer to make them gankable in cases where the user isn't totally AFK.

Because the current meta where I have to sacrifice a ship to find out if someone has boosts and then I just blueball them forever after, is not good for anyone.

This game is as its best when fights are won and lost on the basis of player choice in combat, fitting, and fleet maneuvers. Not when victory is determined by who spent more money on alts. Seriously, I came here to shoot spaceships, not play N+1 with subscriptions.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-06-24 17:52:06 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
...or probe / gate camp a booster with cruiser fleet with logic... not many are required

plus, if u leave proper tackle on both sides, jumping would not prevent death

given the amount of isks that ppl put in creating their links toons (training queues=plex=isk -> ship is not the only risks there) their strength seems to me not op

i don't have boosters

i avoid or kill boosters

or use other's boosters

i just play the game

shall we nerf implants? shall we nerf what?

many seem to want an easier game... then i think they are bad: instead of accepting the challenge or letting others have their game, they want easy times... seems not like eve to me


Implants are a risk. A shiny pod is often multiple times more expensive than links ship and pods face risk from many directions including bubbles (in null/WH), instalockers, and Santo.

Meanwhile OGB is pay to win "make my ship awesome" button that has minimum claim on pilot's attention span, unlike probing which requires actual input and is extremely difficult to do while also multiboxing a frigate in pitched battle. That anyone would suggest there is a balancing equivalent between a mostly afk booster and a prober that must be actively and skillfully managed to find it is pretty laughable.

I'm not even calling for boosters to be removed. For small raiding parties going into enemy territory where the enemy blob has a brick tanked CS hugging station, the T3 links need to be an option.

But putting links on killmails would be a good start. It would disincentivize their use as a hidden trump card for lowsec killboard greening. Put them on mails and add at least a weapons timer to make them gankable in cases where the user isn't totally AFK.

Because the current meta where I have to sacrifice a ship to find out if someone has boosts and then I just blueball them forever after, is not good for anyone.

This game is as its best when fights are won and lost on the basis of player choice in combat, fitting, and fleet maneuvers. Not when victory is determined by who spent more money on alts. Seriously, I came here to shoot spaceships, not play N+1 with subscriptions.


Then don't fight in a system when you see a booster on d-scan. You don't like boosters, then don't fight people who use them. Once they get blue-balled enough, they'll either put their links up, or go do something else.
Arla Sarain
#37 - 2015-06-24 22:51:51 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Varrinox wrote:
Boosters are a ******** out of date mechanic that needs addressing far more urgently than anymore ship hull redesign or balance or more overview tweaks.

They along with numerous other ways of using alts to gain a pay to win advantage over a legit solo pilot are a cancer in this game. They have their places on grid in any engagement but in there present state are no more than a joke.

This comes from a person who has done it as well. I used to run with personal booster and multiple accounts in recons/logi. now days I just solo as that encourages more interaction with humans and this is not a Korean grind MMO it's a western player interaction bases MMO (apparently).

Some risk vs reward that CCP always talk about needs to be applied to boosters.

Also add delayed local to all of k-space whilst your at it.



eve is not solo game so cry more.

The linking ship is an alt, not another player.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#38 - 2015-06-25 02:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
As long as OGB remains the way it is you can expect people to exploit it. It offers a medium through which a single player can turn the tide against superior forces.

Forcing them to be on grid... would change things up. However I'd prefer it if they just got rid of fleet boosting all together. It'd be much simpler to know for a fact we are on an even playing field, instead of having to scout around gathering intelligence on an enemy fleet wondering whether or not they have boosts, how many, etc.

In terms of fleet vs fleet engagements this would not be a problem, but a single player already has enough to worry about without having to worry about that, on top of not being able to field his own boosts, and let's be real here, no player would field an on grid booster to support his solo boat, well, maybe some would, but practically, it would be a horrible idea, for obvious reasons, and thus limiting fleet bonuses to on-grid application would be unfair in that it would be a benefit to large groups, while being a detriment to single players who would otherwise have run their own links.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#39 - 2015-06-25 07:27:27 UTC
Removing boosts would massively effect fleet warfare.

Doctrines would trend towards being cheaper and the ratio of logistics and remote assistance modules in fleet would have to increace dramatically.

It wouldnt make much sense flying anything other than alpha fleets since alpha thresholds would be so low even in relatively small fights.

Basically, it would just be a game of instant knockout favouring the side with greater numbers (not accounting for fleet discipline), just as it is to some extent in the large scale fleet fights.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-06-25 09:08:22 UTC
They are clearly not that bothered about them. If they were they could be fixed in a nanosecond.

Sure, forcing the effects on grid may present technical difficulties, however if they simply added a beacon which anyone can warp to once boosts effects are up ... well ... game changer right there.

Think cyno but without the movement lockout.

So you CAN OGB...but is it wise, when you can no longer hide in the shadows?

But they're not going down this route so it is evidently not a huge deal for CCP.