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The Scope Gallente Federation 6
Alien Squirrel The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 6	#161 - 2015-06-25 15:35:43 UTC \| Edited by: Alien Squirrel the editor reverted to a draft when I hit post and don't feel like retyping everything. Someone can delete this

Rat Scout

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 45

#162 - 2015-06-25 20:13:37 UTC

Excited for this release.

Regarding the transformations, I belive it is too late for the art department to go back and modify the visual effects. I agree that is seems very subtle, perheaps that is one of the stealth strenghts of this T3.

One thing I really really would like to see is a SKIN released soon for the Hecate, preferibly black and permament. I am sitting on 6000 AU CCP becuase 99.9% of the skins did not impress me so far.

I woluld like to specialize for the Hecate, most definatly biased with my reasons why you should do what I ask you to do, so get on it!

Zank Lennelluc

Regiment Of Naga Association

OnlyFleets.

Likes received: 0

#163 - 2015-06-26 00:44:50 UTC

Aleqs Villint wrote:

Been playing around with this fit -- bear in mind I have perfect fitting skills, and it fits with 0.2 pg to spare:

[Hecate, Local]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I

Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Expanded Probe Launcher I

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

You can downgrade the Neutrons to Ions and fit a Nos instead of the probe launcher.
Anecdotally I've had good experiences flying it. The local tank is very powerful and the applied damage is extremely good. It'll be a murder machine for the first little while until people figure out how to kill it, which in this case is pretty much just being farther than 5km away from it.

The biggest problem is that even with the Cap Booster overheated and running with max uptime the cap still dries up absurdly quickly. I feel like even a small cap use reduction on Defense mode to go with the rep speed increase would go a long way to alleviating this. If it's intentionally meant to be that way though... well I dunno. Seems like too glaring a weakness compared to the other T3Ds. I think that it's a very well designed ship regardless.

I guess spitting out 500 dps at 1km is it's own reward.

The cap or lac of cap for the hecate really has the potential to break the ship. After further testing, any fit with dual reps and a cap booster is only able to run for seconds. Decent cap won't make it op'd as it is already vulnerable to a lot of things.

Trinkets friend

Sudden Buggery

Sending Thots And Players

Likes received: 3,048

#164 - 2015-06-26 02:25:31 UTC

...or you could go a single C-type rep OR a single AAR, and not try dual rep supremacy?

I mean...it's got a rep speed bonus for burst tanking. Burst. Tanking. It's not a triple rep myrmidon, so stop trying to fly it that way.

If it's got its weaknesses, aside from not being a Svipul, it's meant to have weaknesses to counteract the bonuses. Insane DPS, low mobility. That's called balance, at least in theory.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~

Doomheim 527
Daniela Doran Doomheim Likes received: 527	#165 - 2015-06-26 03:11:28 UTC I believe my Dragoon, Ashimmu, Pilgrim or Curse could easily eat this ship in seconds. Unfortunately my pvp skills are still lacking since I actually haven't started pvping yet. It's about that time to cut loose, I can't wait for this ship to arrive.

Torgeir Hekard

I MYSELF AND ME

Likes received: 298

#166 - 2015-06-26 07:43:44 UTC

Zank Lennelluc wrote:

Nah. The brawling hecate looks kinda like iaijutsu ship for very short bursts. Sustained dualrep does not seem like a good option. Better go for max dps with AAR and overload everything.

Specia1 K

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 355

#167 - 2015-06-26 08:39:06 UTC

Zank Lennelluc wrote:

Specia1 K wrote:

I said in earlier posts that being able to fit 5x 150mm rails and 3 full magstabs will be OP. Now you can add a tracking computer, sebo and 5mn MWD too Roll

Mark my words, this ship will become defacto sniper doctrine and will result in light rails being nerfed (unless the ship is).

Enjoy it while you can. Everyone else using light rails will suffer because of this.

edit. Rail-Harpies just died...

Rail Harpies will be fine. I compared a Hecate fit similar to rail harpy fit.

With my skills,

dps, Rail Harpy 176 caldari AM, 102 spike. Hecate 350 caldari AM, 200 spike.
Range, Rail harp; spike 65 opti, 72 falloff. AM 18 opti 25km falloff. Hecate in sharp shooter mode, 62km opti 69 falloff with spike, with antimatter 17 opti 24km falloff. Out of sharpshooter it is 10km opti and 17 falloff with anitmatter and with spike it is 37, 44.
Tank for Harpy is 6.7k ehp with a sig of radius of 39m and speed of 814m/s. The hecate has a tank of 6.2 ehp, 8.2ehp in defense mode, speed with an ab is 561m/s and sig radius is 79m.

With the armor version you'll have more utility less speed, a lot of fitting mods and if you go with a mwd a much bigger sig and less dps than the shield version. Harpies will be fine.

I have gallante tactical destroyer IV, assult frig IV, sharp shooter IV.

I get that. But at Lvl5 skills this ship will easily do 425+ dps with 150mm rails and Cal Navy A.M. And with 37.5% tracking bonus too. The Harpy doesn't even come close.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Elenna Twin

LP Store Social Club

Likes received: 11

#168 - 2015-06-26 14:32:10 UTC | Edited by: Elenna Twin

Torgeir Hekard wrote:

Nah. The brawling hecate looks kinda like iaijutsu ship for very short bursts. Sustained dualrep does not seem like a good option. Better go for max dps with AAR and overload everything.

From what i've experienced on Singularity, it's pretty much this, at least with blaster fits. Rush to close range in Prop Mode and pray that your insane DPS will kill the target before it gets beyond 5km. I found it relatively easy to get 2 or 3 shots at 0m even when scrammed/webbed due to the previous speed I had from Prop Mode, but then the target starts to get away from you so you have to kill it fast. Also note that Null ammo + Sharpshooter still has 5.25km+4.38km optimal+falloff range with Neutron Blasters, which isn't too bad.
But imo, anything able to apply dps at 7+km or with a good neuting power will destroy any blaster Hecate (if the fight doesn't start at 0m obviously).

Rails fits apply damage better than blasters ofc but it leaves really little room for an active tank so you have to make a choice. Either cut your DPS by fitting 125mm or fly a pure buffer tank (or maybe an "armor rep fit only", aka no hull rigs cause you'll need a PG rig, didn't test this yet).

At first I expected the Hecate to be designed as a Dessie-Comet (without Drones), aka being a king of scram range fights so I was really surprised when I saw its base speed. I then realised that it will be more a kind of "Blitz" ship in terms of gameplay. Come fast, kill fast. While being interesting, it can also be frustrating because you're gonna toss a coin before any fight.

EDIT : I forgot to say that with its insane agility, low mass and its good speed (in Prop Mode) this ship is an awesome anti-kiter, though ! It's really easy to slingshot people.

Thundercats The Initiative. 19
Faltzs Thundercats The Initiative. Likes received: 19	#169 - 2015-06-26 16:18:12 UTC 1 Can we expect a look into hull tanking mods, the cpu fitting requirement on bulkheads is very high for the return on frigates/destoryers.

Lloyd Roses

Artificial Memories

Likes received: 1,356

#170 - 2015-06-26 18:18:27 UTC

Faltzs wrote:

Can we expect a look into hull tanking mods, the cpu fitting requirement on bulkheads is very high for the return on frigates/destoryers.

You most certainly don't want to waste one of the hecate's lows on a bulkhead. A rigslot, okay...

Given how the armorrep bonus plays out (sorta like +10% rep/lvl) coupled with the rest of the ship, the hecate has an unfair advantage even over the others. It's got half a slot more (6/4/4.5) I'd really like to see that rep-speed bonus go away in favor of nothing, hecate is ******** strong like this.

Then you factor in the huge ass cargohold and OP intensifies.

Seriously, want to change T3Ds for the better, start by cutting down their cargohold to 100-130m³.

Gideon Goldenbelly

The Tuskers

The Tuskers Co.

Likes received: 2

#171 - 2015-06-27 01:00:00 UTC

Mr. Fozzie you created a monster!

[Hecate, Gideon Goldenbelly's Hecate]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Reactor Control Unit II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II

125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II
125mm Railgun II
Auto Targeting System I

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Alien Squirrel

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 6

#172 - 2015-06-27 04:58:35 UTC | Edited by: Alien Squirrel

Lloyd Roses wrote:

+10% rep/lvl
It's got half a slot more (6/4/4.5)

What are you even on about?

Lloyd Roses wrote:

I'd really like to see that rep-speed bonus go away in favor of nothing, hecate is ******** strong like this.

The others get a sig reduction, Hecate has a huge sig compared to the others. I also think you're forgetting that it's impossible to run dual reps stable with a 33.3% cycle reduction. They got rid of the 33.3% to rep amount because that actually was extremely broken.

Lloyd Roses wrote:

Then you factor in the huge ass cargohold and OP intensifies.
Seriously, want to change T3Ds for the better, start by cutting down their cargohold to 100-130m³.

You mean the cargo that'd the exact same size as the catalyst? You want to reduce the cargo to less than most frigates.

The Hecate already has great cap, it's recharge rate is the same as the Confessor and Svipul. You guys are running out of cap because you're trying to constantly run two reppers in defense mode. It's not going to happen. Two T2 reps in defense mode take 26.7 cap/sec to run just by themselves. You're supposed to pulse these things, manage your cap, but you have the ability to have one hell of a burst tank if you need it. Or run a single shiny rep, way more efficient on cap, you save powegrid, generate less heat, and get an extra slot.

Since Pyfa hasn't been updated for decreased cycle time, you can calculate your 'sustained' tank(i.e. cap stable tank if you pulse them correctly) by doing this, using Pyfa's listed values.

E.g. this fit has two reppers with 8.89 cap use, for a total of 17.78, 28.2 regen, 21.8 total use. 17.78 + 28.2 - 21.8 / 17.78 = 1.36

In this case this fit can let its reppers use up to 36% more cap than if its reppers didn't have a cycle reduction. If the number you calculated is greater than 1.5, you are able to run your repper(s) constantly.
Multiply the number you calculated by Pyfa's listed tank, unless you were greater than 1.5, in which case use 1.5, to get your 'sustained' tank. e.g. using the previous fit, 218.6 * 1.36 = 297.3 EHP / sec

Specia1 K

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 355

#173 - 2015-06-27 06:04:48 UTC | Edited by: Specia1 K

Gideon Goldenbelly wrote:

I know. This ship is a rail-monster. It seriously dwarfs anything below T2/T3 rail cruisers.
It is in a class all by itself. Ugh

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Specia1 K

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 355

#174 - 2015-06-27 06:09:22 UTC | Edited by: Specia1 K

[Hecate, Rail-test]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Vigor Compact Micro Auxiliary Power Core

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Optical Tracking Computer I
Sensor Booster II

150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

428 dps w/ Cal Navy Antimatter
248 dps w/ Spike
@lvl5 skill

edit: updated fit with Pyfa below

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Alien Squirrel

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 6

#175 - 2015-06-27 07:05:33 UTC

Specia1 K wrote:

I know. This ship is a rail-monster. It seriously dwarfs anything below T2/T3 rail cruisers.
It is in a class all by itself. Ugh

Harpy, corm, jackdaw, talwar, caracal all out range and some out DPS at sniping ranges. You could say speed, but while you burn 30 km towards them as they burn away, they chew threw your nonexistent tank and you're dead.

Specia1 K

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 355

#176 - 2015-06-27 07:30:21 UTC | Edited by: Specia1 K

Alien Squirrel wrote:

Specia1 K wrote:

I know. This ship is a rail-monster. It seriously dwarfs anything below T2/T3 rail cruisers.
It is in a class all by itself. Ugh

edit:

It's close. I will have to redo my LML fits with the new modules however.
The ROF, tracking and dps are impressive.
I'm doing theoretical max fits, not best-case combat fits btw.

[Hecate, Hecate Sniper-test]

Co-Processor II
Tracking Enhancer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
5MN Microwarpdrive II

150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator II

stats:
89.5km/106.1km optimal/falloff with heat on Tracking Computers, sharp-shooter mode
220/260dps with Spike
1.87/1.59s ROF
0.0346 tracking speed
1585/2272m/s velocity
SigRad (MWD) 420

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome


Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Sending Thots And Players Likes received: 3,048	#177 - 2015-06-27 09:49:19 UTC Yeah, 220 DPS rail boats are really going to blot out the sun....unless you lack 20 of them. But when people have 20 sniper Cormorants, you could say the same thin anyway. Yawn. ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~

Lloyd Roses

Artificial Memories

Likes received: 1,356

#178 - 2015-06-27 12:57:19 UTC

Alien Squirrel wrote:

Lloyd Roses wrote:

I'd really like to see that rep-speed bonus go away in favor of nothing, hecate is ******** strong like this.

33% cycle time reduction is like a 50% rep amount increase at the cost of more cap, but with the benefit of reduced chance of bleedthrough. So you got 1.5 mods worth in that one slot, then to add the resist bonus even, as opposed to other T3Ds that have already proven being dumb active tanks with just the resist bonus. Since it allows you to fit mwd, CB, scram, web together with 2 magstabs, SAR+DCU and 10 effective turrets, I simply call stupid.

It's literally *We're unhappy that a svipul can mainly outsustain any other ship, here's one that can both outsustain them and outgank them! Now have fun, see you next patch for hecate nerf!*

Brokk Witgenstein

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 919

#179 - 2015-06-27 13:13:49 UTC

Oh. My. God.

Look at that beast. That's a DESTROYER allright, meant to do one thing and one thing only. Well... maybe two, considering the scan probe launcher ^_^

I won't lie. I hate Gallente. I despise racism but I despise Gallenteans more. I hate their "democratic values", I hate their cowardly drones, I hate the spit ugly potatoes their designers mistake for "starship engineering" and I even hate their in-game UI colour. -BUT- I think I like this ship. I feel so confused right now, as if maybe-perhaps-possibly liking one of their hulls makes me a sellout and a cheat.

Not sure how the Minmatar wound up with the better Corax (name it Talwar) or how this time the Gallente designed a Cormorant on Steroids in about the same time it took the Caldari to come up with a TV antenna. CCP not like Caldari it seems :-p

Still... it does seem to have all the bonuses in all the right places. It's even slick and pleasing to the eye -- further proof the design schematics were nicked from somebody else.

SO, why does Mr. Brokk feel the need to forumwhine? Because (a) I'm behind on my training schedule goddamnit, (b) these D3s are really killing Small Complexes in FW. They are absolutely everything destroyers ought to be, except they completely outclass the "regular" T1 destroyers and assault frigs one would fly in said complexes. Is it just me or does anyone else feel there's only 4 viable options for a small complex? It's either Confessor, Svipul, Hecate or Worm (yup, Worm LOL) paradise.

Outside of FW however, I'd say Good Job!

+1 Will definitely train for it... once I wash off the guilt and come to terms with how dirty that makes me feel. Cry


Gideon Goldenbelly The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. Likes received: 2	#180 - 2015-06-27 17:37:32 UTC 9 pages and you guys didnt realize that this is a viable oversized MWD ship, really?

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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Regiment Of Naga Association

OnlyFleets.

Sudden Buggery

Sending Thots And Players

Doomheim

I MYSELF AND ME

State Protectorate

Caldari State

LP Store Social Club

Thundercats

The Initiative.

Artificial Memories

The Tuskers

The Tuskers Co.

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic