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[AEGIS] The Hecate

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Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#121 - 2015-06-23 15:35:31 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Terra Chrall wrote:
Do you use T1 tank and weapons or T2

I frequently use T1 modules, especially after the tiercide balance. In fact a lot of people do. Maybe even will use T1 guns after they go through those. Some fits already have T1 LMLs as a requirement.

Sup?

I think you missed the point of my comparison. It was in the context T2 Tank and Weapons being better than T1 and thus T2/T3 ships being better than T1. The person I quoted was inferring that T3D make T1 obsolete, and I was agreeing they do, much like once you can use T2 tank or weapons it makes T1 special case only.

Yes, there are cases for using T1 modules for fitting reasons. But when comparing it to what would you use IF you could use it, there is little to no reason to user T1 modules over T2 from a performance standpoint. Especially with the tiericide T2 is the better performer.

So it would be like saying the reason to use T1 frigates over a T3 destroyer in PvP is so I can get into a Novice FW complex. It is a valid reason to use a T1 ship but it doesn't make it the better performing ship for PvP in general.
Fornost Fornostsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2015-06-23 15:36:28 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:

I love the T3 destroyers just as much as anyone else. I do not want to see them nerfed again. I love the Confessor the way it is.

However, if you think about this rationally, it is impossible to look at the current frigate lineup, and conclude that any of the Assault Ships are in a good place. As soon as the Hecate is out, there will no longer be any reason to purchase an Assault Ship, aside from silly reasons like aesthetics, which from a gameplay perspective is really irrelevant here.
.


I think T3 destro have been developed following the "wouldn't be cool if..." logic.
They violate the EVE rule small returns for huge investments (both ISK and SP-wise) and they completely overlap the role that previously was covered by AFs.

They can even enter small plexes in FW!
Styphon the Black
Forced Euthanasia
#123 - 2015-06-23 17:10:29 UTC
This thing needs a signature reduction for the MWD. All the other T3 use AB and thus have a smallish signature. The Hecate being stuck with using a MWD which is a huge disadvantage in comparison is going to get continually blasted off the field even though it has a fairly good tank.

I still believe that the Confessor is the strongest T3. It can still fit a Dual Rep, 10MN AB, fit and has very few negatives other than no web.
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#124 - 2015-06-23 17:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Styphon the Black wrote:
This thing needs a signature reduction for the MWD. All the other T3 use AB and thus have a smallish signature. The Hecate being stuck with using a MWD which is a huge disadvantage in comparison is going to get continually blasted off the field even though it has a fairly good tank.

I still believe that the Confessor is the strongest T3. It can still fit a Dual Rep, 10MN AB, fit and has very few negatives other than no web.

I agree about the Hecate it seems like it is going to take a lot of full damage when it is moving i.e using MWD. This is its greatest weakness in my eyes and I wonder if it is too big?

I imagine a typical fight going something like, spot target XX km away, lock/approach target, MWD + prop mode close gap try to get within 3-4km of target, appply webs and scram on way in, enter close orbit, change mode depending on need, blast away. For many fights this will be fine but if you bring only 1 web you could get range pulled on you and have to switch to Null or turn MWD on if not scrammed. For 1 on 1 this will be fun. As long as the time spent with MWD is in short bursts, it is not too bad. But this limits the ship to short bursts of speed over larger amounts of damage.

As for the Confessor being the strongest, I am not sure. Kill boards show Svipuls with twice the number of kills per week. It could be the better ship is not being used or that the Svipul is better for those doing more killing. But I suspect the ship doing the most is the current best ship.
Alexis Nightwish
#125 - 2015-06-23 18:19:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to Microwarpdrive speed boost and reduction in Microwarpdrive capacitor use while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is active
TIL that 'Hecate' is Greek for '******* Broken Kiter'

I would say "inb4 nerf" but CCP is all about Gallente Master Race, so no (meaningful) nerf will come.

BTW good job taking that neat feature of the Jackdaw (the 66% inertia in Speed stance) and giving it to the Hecate.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#126 - 2015-06-23 19:25:07 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to Microwarpdrive speed boost and reduction in Microwarpdrive capacitor use while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is active
TIL that 'Hecate' is Greek for '******* Broken Kiter'

I would say "inb4 nerf" but CCP is all about Gallente Master Race, so no (meaningful) nerf will come.

BTW good job taking that neat feature of the Jackdaw (the 66% inertia in Speed stance) and giving it to the Hecate.


...with even less mass than the Jack Shocked

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#127 - 2015-06-23 20:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
CCP Fozzie wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Now that the boat is on SiSi, do you mind seeding the book so we can make some things to try out?

The skillbook should be on the market after SISI's update tomorrow.


any idea when this will be?

just went on singularity now and the ship is on the market but no one can test it as the skillbook is not an item in the marketplace and its definitely past usual working hours.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2015-06-23 20:58:44 UTC
Despite looking like an extremely fun ship, I would almost like this to lose a turret hardpoint bringing it down to 8 effective turrets to keep it from being OP

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Elenna Twin
LP Store Social Club
#129 - 2015-06-23 21:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenna Twin
Any thoughts about a potential 5/4/5 Hecate with 4 turrets hardpoints (honestly, the DPS is high enough even with four already, or you can always add a 5/5 dronebay/bandwidth if you want it to be higher) and lower both CPU & PG accordingly of course, but increase its base speed (and give it a weaker bonus from Prop Mode) to keep the ability to apply this DPS correctly within scram range (especially for blaster fits) ?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#130 - 2015-06-23 23:57:00 UTC
Styphon the Black wrote:
This thing needs a signature reduction for the MWD. All the other T3 use AB and thus have a smallish signature. The Hecate being stuck with using a MWD which is a huge disadvantage in comparison is going to get continually blasted off the field even though it has a fairly good tank.

I still believe that the Confessor is the strongest T3. It can still fit a Dual Rep, 10MN AB, fit and has very few negatives other than no web.


You obviously have never played nor encountered a Svipul.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#131 - 2015-06-24 00:03:15 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to Microwarpdrive speed boost and reduction in Microwarpdrive capacitor use while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is active
TIL that 'Hecate' is Greek for '******* Broken Kiter'

I would say "inb4 nerf" but CCP is all about Gallente Master Race, so no (meaningful) nerf will come.

BTW good job taking that neat feature of the Jackdaw (the 66% inertia in Speed stance) and giving it to the Hecate.


They mostly likely took a vote on which of the 4 races would be the MASTER RACE during a certain time period. Minmatar were the previous masters and now it looks like Gallente are the current masters now.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#132 - 2015-06-24 00:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: HiddenPorpoise
Daniela Doran wrote:
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
BTW good job taking that neat feature of the Jackdaw (the 66% inertia in Speed stance) and giving it to the Hecate.
They mostly likely took a vote on which of the 4 races would be the MASTER RACE during a certain time period. Minmatar were the previous masters and now it looks like Gallente are the current masters now.
Placing my bet now, Amarr are next. Laser cap bonuses turn into fire rate/cap combined bonus or something.
Alien Squirrel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2015-06-24 00:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alien Squirrel
Elenna Twin wrote:
Any thoughts about a potential 5/4/5 Hecate with 4 turrets hardpoints (honestly, the DPS is high enough even with four already, or you can always add a 5/5 dronebay/bandwidth if you want it to be higher) and lower both CPU & PG accordingly of course, but increase its base speed (and give it a weaker bonus from Prop Mode) to keep the ability to apply this DPS correctly within scram range (especially for blaster fits) ?

Leaving it with 8 effective turrets, 20% nerf is pretty significant simply because "the DPS is high enough." Seems like you're ignoring that blasters don't do DPS outside a few kilometers.

The speed of this thing and the prop mode are all kinds of ****** up. It's base speed is absolute ****(i.e. tied for slowest), making it basically impossible to dictate range if you're scrammed, making all that blaster DPS worthless. Even the Jackdaw gets better scram range control since its speed bonus is velocity.

Also the 66% bonus to MWD speed bonus doesn't actually translate to a 66% increase in speed. This bonus is reduced by a ratio of thrust to mass, and also less potent because it applies before 100% is added to the MWD bonus to be multiplied. (1.66 * (100% + 500%) is better than 100% + 1.66 * 500%) Without any plates it comes out to about 57% speed increase. Going just barely faster than the Confessor and Jackdaw with MWD on.

Alexis Nightwish wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Propulsion Mode:
66.6% bonus to Microwarpdrive speed boost and reduction in Microwarpdrive capacitor use while Propulsion Mode is active
66.6% bonus to ship inertia modifier while Propulsion Mode is active
Sharpshooter Mode:
66.6% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range while Sharpshooter Mode is active
TIL that 'Hecate' is Greek for '******* Broken Kiter'

I would say "inb4 nerf" but CCP is all about Gallente Master Race, so no (meaningful) nerf will come.

BTW good job taking that neat feature of the Jackdaw (the 66% inertia in Speed stance) and giving it to the Hecate.

Barely faster than the confessor, significantly slower than svipul. The MWD bonus is significantly less powerful than a velocity bonus, the inertia bonus is justified.
Arnold Hita
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#134 - 2015-06-24 02:21:11 UTC
Is that targeting range and scan res in or out of sharpshooter mode?
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#135 - 2015-06-24 02:50:49 UTC
Arnold Hita wrote:
Is that targeting range and scan res in or out of sharpshooter mode?
All numbers are out.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#136 - 2015-06-24 02:57:19 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
I enjoy when new t3d come out. Means im going to get a lot easy kills from ppl without a clue flying around Twisted.

T3D die very quickly when webbed/neuted. And missiles absolutely punish them, provided you have to intelligence to fit for application. I killed quite a few prenerf 10mn confessors with my drake. Then i sat in a RHML phoon and decimated every t3d that was dumb enough to engage.

Yea cruisers can kill em too. I just like flying ships everyone says is bad, and getting lots of fun fights.

As for AF, they need some work to remain competitive. Jag needs a bit of work, either 4th turret + grid or turn it into a t2 breacher and make it a mini claymore. Svipul does EVERYthing a jag can, but better in everyway.


Might not go as you plan Stitch. This ship isn't gonna be use for solo warfare. It's most likely gonna be use as a blobbing nightmare when combined with independent tacklers like the ceptors. Depending on whether you can kill the hero tackling ceptors before the blobbing Hecates arrives cause those things are gonna melt anything short of a Marauder within seconds.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#137 - 2015-06-24 03:13:44 UTC
So HEcate is seeded now. But the skill book isn't. :tears: CCP, y u tease?

Trait tab is royally screwed up. Not broken, per se. Just things in completely wrong order, etc.

Once I can buy the skill book, I'll hop right into it and take it for a spin.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Alien Squirrel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-06-24 03:59:09 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
I enjoy when new t3d come out. Means im going to get a lot easy kills from ppl without a clue flying around Twisted.

T3D die very quickly when webbed/neuted. And missiles absolutely punish them, provided you have to intelligence to fit for application. I killed quite a few prenerf 10mn confessors with my drake. Then i sat in a RHML phoon and decimated every t3d that was dumb enough to engage.

Yea cruisers can kill em too. I just like flying ships everyone says is bad, and getting lots of fun fights.

As for AF, they need some work to remain competitive. Jag needs a bit of work, either 4th turret + grid or turn it into a t2 breacher and make it a mini claymore. Svipul does EVERYthing a jag can, but better in everyway.


Might not go as you plan Stitch. This ship isn't gonna be use for solo warfare. It's most likely gonna be use as a blobbing nightmare when combined with independent tacklers like the ceptors. Depending on whether you can kill the hero tackling ceptors before the blobbing Hecates arrives cause those things are gonna melt anything short of a Marauder within seconds.


These things will at least have to be flown with a partner to provide more webs. Hecate is just too slow to solo brawl, basically anything will be able to scram kite them.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2015-06-24 05:23:05 UTC
Alien Squirrel wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
I enjoy when new t3d come out. Means im going to get a lot easy kills from ppl without a clue flying around Twisted.

T3D die very quickly when webbed/neuted. And missiles absolutely punish them, provided you have to intelligence to fit for application. I killed quite a few prenerf 10mn confessors with my drake. Then i sat in a RHML phoon and decimated every t3d that was dumb enough to engage.

Yea cruisers can kill em too. I just like flying ships everyone says is bad, and getting lots of fun fights.

As for AF, they need some work to remain competitive. Jag needs a bit of work, either 4th turret + grid or turn it into a t2 breacher and make it a mini claymore. Svipul does EVERYthing a jag can, but better in everyway.


Might not go as you plan Stitch. This ship isn't gonna be use for solo warfare. It's most likely gonna be use as a blobbing nightmare when combined with independent tacklers like the ceptors. Depending on whether you can kill the hero tackling ceptors before the blobbing Hecates arrives cause those things are gonna melt anything short of a Marauder within seconds.


These things will at least have to be flown with a partner to provide more webs. Hecate is just too slow to solo brawl, basically anything will be able to scram kite them.



In sharpshooter:

Neutron Blasters with null will shoot to 5.3km optimal + 4.4km falloff before modules/rigs.
125mm Rails with Javelin will shoot to 8.4km optimal + 6.3km falloff before modules/rigs.

They should be able to punch out to scram kite range. A little vulnerable to TD's but that's normal.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#140 - 2015-06-24 13:02:48 UTC
If you are in scram range of them, they are in scram range of you. You have 4 mid slots. Scram web them and go to town. Not everything has to be a kiter.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY