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Rook/Falcon Advice Needed.

Author
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-06-17 15:17:59 UTC
Ok, so i'm about 20 hours from the Rook/Falcon, and stuck on how to fit it.
I wont be using it in solo PvP (i'm not that good) it will be mostly small gang stuff.
I'd like to fit a full rainbow of 5 jams, which leaves 2 mids free, one after a prop mod.
Now I don't know whether to fit for damage to kill anything that gets close (i'll be 90km+ away from the fight), tank to withstand anything that gets close, or fit to try and kite anything that is trying to burn to me.
Would heavies or rapid lights be a better idea?
In an ideal world i'd like to be able to run at least 3 of the jammers + the prop mod and be cap stable, just incase I get neuted before the jams land. Not a big deal if this isn't possible though.
Are my expectations to high?
Any/All advice would be great.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-06-17 15:41:24 UTC
Falcon: covops cloak,ecm.....lots of ecm. No tank, ecm related stuff instead.

Rook: apparently makes for a savage active tanked ham brawler, haven't tried this yet though, still need to train shield skills up
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-06-17 15:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kestral Anneto
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Falcon: covops cloak,ecm.....lots of ecm. No tank, ecm related stuff instead.

Rook: apparently makes for a savage active tanked ham brawler, haven't tried this yet though, still need to train shield skills up


so if flying Rook, dont even bother with ECM? falcon it is then, will have to train medium hybrids up. UghUgh
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2015-06-17 16:45:41 UTC
Your #1 job with the Falcon is to keep that range and stay alive.

I've flown an ancillary booster Falcon before that was pretty sweet.
A target painter helps everyone else in your fleet.
Cap booster isn't horrible, if you MWD around a lot.

Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-06-17 16:56:50 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Your #1 job with the Falcon is to keep that range and stay alive.

I've flown an ancillary booster Falcon before that was pretty sweet.
A target painter helps everyone else in your fleet.
Cap booster isn't horrible, if you MWD around a lot.



So maybe a nano in the low would be a good idea? increase speed so can dictate range?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#6 - 2015-06-17 17:40:54 UTC
nano, inertia stab, overdrive injector, all have a purpose, but to be honest, I don't think I fit them. I just use range and watch my overview. Stay aligned, warp out come back, like that.

I'm about 40 jumps away from my fitted Falcons, logging in to check the fitting is kind of a pain right now.
I know I have a plated, armor Falcon sitting, It would have 1 distortion amp, 1 800 plate, 1 EANM.
I think the ancillary Falcon has 2 ECM Distortion amps and DC II fitted.




Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#7 - 2015-06-17 18:00:20 UTC
Rather than fitting a rainbow of jams you may prefer to load a full rack of racials of a single type and to carry a full set of each, a heavy shield tank and a mobile depot. Refitting on the fly is not necessarily easy but it can pay dividends.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#8 - 2015-06-17 18:16:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Falcon should have one tanking module, either a 1600mm plate or an XL-ASB, and call that part done. Neither is about atual tanking, but from experience they make the difference of *ailgn out before you pop* (in case of plate), and the little Wolf that couldn't break your tank while you kept jamming their logistics (XL-ASB, tanks more than you'd expect).

[Falcon, ASB]

'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
Damage Control II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Dread Guristas Medium Graviton Smartbomb
Dread Guristas Small Graviton Smartbomb
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor II

Has around 35k-40k ehp after one reload, and touches the jamstrength cap. I tried getting a falcon up with dispersion projectors to get more jam optimal, turned out that particular part was not the issue.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-17 19:32:18 UTC
So this is what i've come up with, I'm debating whether to drop the rainbow jam and go with a full rack of 5 multi's, or keep it how it, i'm leaning more towards to full rack of multi's, what are you guys thoughts?

[Falcon, TestBed1]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 200
10MN Afterburner II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I

Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#10 - 2015-06-17 20:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gh0stBust3rs
Kestral Anneto wrote:
So this is what i've come up with, I'm debating whether to drop the rainbow jam and go with a full rack of 5 multi's, or keep it how it, i'm leaning more towards to full rack of multi's, what are you guys thoughts?

[Falcon, TestBed1]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 200
10MN Afterburner II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I



Us meta 4 jams. They are better then T2. And never fit multis on a falcon.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-06-17 21:23:29 UTC
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
Us meta 4 jams. They are better then T2. And never fit multis on a falcon.


really? meta 4 are better that T2? how does that work? someone be sleeping at CCP.
So you would recomend a rainbow fit then?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#12 - 2015-06-17 21:45:59 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
Us meta 4 jams. They are better then T2. And never fit multis on a falcon.


really? meta 4 are better that T2? how does that work? someone be sleeping at CCP.
So you would recomend a rainbow fit then?

Yup, not just jams either, some neuts and other stuff also.
Milla Jjovovich
Never Comeback Airline
#13 - 2015-06-18 08:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Milla Jjovovich
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Falcon: covops cloak,ecm.....lots of ecm. No tank, ecm related stuff instead.

Rook: apparently makes for a savage active tanked ham brawler, haven't tried this yet though, still need to train shield skills up


so if flying Rook, dont even bother with ECM? falcon it is then, will have to train medium hybrids up. UghUgh


rook will give you tank and 3 ecm and prop and point, hams in highs, you need a point otherwise your target will just warp off as soon as you activate those jams
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#14 - 2015-06-18 11:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
Us meta 4 jams. They are better then T2. And never fit multis on a falcon.


really? meta 4 are better that T2? how does that work? someone be sleeping at CCP.
So you would recomend a rainbow fit then?



There a many times meta is better than T2. The point of T2 (currently) is that they give you the best attributes with the worst fittings. In general T2 means you get the highest performance at a cheap price with agressive fitting requirements.


ECM are a great example. The T2 and the meta have the same stats for jamming. T2 are cheaper and mass produced with meta being looted from pve and costing a bit more. T2 have high fitting cpu requirements and the meta don't.

In this case the meta are better becuase they do the same job as T2, but allow for better fits due to low cpu requirements. The downside is that you will pay a bit more for them.


Another example would be warp disruptors. The T2 are better than the meta modules, but the cpu cost is high. So when fitting out a ship - sometimes it's better to downgrade your point to meta to free up some cpu for something else.


A T2 shield extender is 'better' on some ships and a meta extender is 'better' on others because you made some fitting choices. The word 'better' is situational in the ship fitting game.


All that being said, the small price difference between meta ECM and t2 ECM makes the meta better. Multispecs used to be all that were used (years back) because over the average of real game random situations they were better. Racials were rarely used. CCP adjusted stats on all ECM so now it pays to have the right racial jams. Multispecs don't get used as much. It's a gut call. Figure out what is best for you. (more intel lends to racials and less intel may lend to using multis???)

I don't always fly ECM boats, but when I do - I use racial jammers. (I'm the most intersting pilot in eve)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#15 - 2015-06-18 11:41:51 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Falcon: covops cloak,ecm.....lots of ecm. No tank, ecm related stuff instead.

Rook: apparently makes for a savage active tanked ham brawler, haven't tried this yet though, still need to train shield skills up


so if flying Rook, dont even bother with ECM? falcon it is then, will have to train medium hybrids up. UghUgh


If you don't want to put ecm on it, a Cerberus will be far better.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#16 - 2015-06-19 18:00:31 UTC
The days of falcons at 100 off km are long gone thankfully, I remember them sitting at 200+ back in the day and keeping people perma-jammed.

Even with perfect skills your gonna need to by ~70km from the fight to be effective, but as others have said your best form of defence is to have a celestial behind you and warp if stuff gets close.

People also normally fly with a full refit of each jammer with them to refit to whatever race is most effective, so if your about to fight a gang with loads of scimis drop a depo, and fit full matar jammers etc.

As far as skills go, if your about to be able to fly it your not ready. Recons need at least recon 4 to be effective and also have skills like frequency modulation, long distance jamming and signal dispersion to 4. You should train all those to 5 asap if ecm is going to be your thing.

As far as fits go try something like this:

[Falcon, jami jami]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I

Warrior II x2


The smarties are for clearing of the drones that will be coming for you.

But in all honesty dont be the guy that flys ecm, its the most gay mechanic in this game by far and we all hate it....
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2015-06-19 22:40:02 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Falcon should have one tanking module, either a 1600mm plate or an XL-ASB, and call that part done. Neither is about atual tanking, but from experience they make the difference of *ailgn out before you pop* (in case of plate), and the little Wolf that couldn't break your tank while you kept jamming their logistics (XL-ASB, tanks more than you'd expect).

[Falcon, ASB]

'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
Damage Control II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Dread Guristas Medium Graviton Smartbomb
Dread Guristas Small Graviton Smartbomb
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor II

Has around 35k-40k ehp after one reload, and touches the jamstrength cap. I tried getting a falcon up with dispersion projectors to get more jam optimal, turned out that particular part was not the issue.
actually, having just hopped back into my falcon for the first time in a good while,
it's got a hefty plate fit so yeah, Floyd pretty much nails it.
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-06-19 23:32:22 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Falcon should have one tanking module, either a 1600mm plate or an XL-ASB, and call that part done. Neither is about atual tanking, but from experience they make the difference of *ailgn out before you pop* (in case of plate), and the little Wolf that couldn't break your tank while you kept jamming their logistics (XL-ASB, tanks more than you'd expect).

[Falcon, ASB]

'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
Damage Control II

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I

Dread Guristas Medium Graviton Smartbomb
Dread Guristas Small Graviton Smartbomb
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor II

Has around 35k-40k ehp after one reload, and touches the jamstrength cap. I tried getting a falcon up with dispersion projectors to get more jam optimal, turned out that particular part was not the issue.


This ^
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#19 - 2015-06-20 17:49:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Falcon: covops cloak,ecm.....lots of ecm. No tank, ecm related stuff instead.

Rook: apparently makes for a savage active tanked ham brawler, haven't tried this yet though, still need to train shield skills up


so if flying Rook, dont even bother with ECM? falcon it is then, will have to train medium hybrids up. UghUgh


If you don't want to put ecm on it, a Cerberus will be far better.


Unless you want to abuse dscan immunity.