These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Need help with a 2k Passive Rattler for C4's Please

Author
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#41 - 2015-06-17 15:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Decripid Sano wrote:
Brain Eater wrote:
I would listen to OROB. You really shouldnt be trying to run solo c4 sites if you think 1 ishtar and a falcon are going to save you. I would suggest joining an active wormhole corporation for backup, faster site clearing, and generally more fun.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47297733/ That is what will happen to you. Granted not all the time but those loses are never fun and can set you back quite a bit after all your hard work. Not to mention the ugly loss mail.


Which class are soloable, C3's maybe? It's very very difficult to find and meet people you can trust to do something like WH's in eve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3o0dtLIHbk that's some pretty semi-afk farming with two characters (one is just activating mods and assigning drones once a site). Domis are about 80mil after platinum insurance.

For c4s, I only run barracks tbh cause I don't like all the frigstuff in other anoms and running a MTU. For c4 Barracks, you need links and refit one energy transfer for another DLA and go full hardeners.
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#42 - 2015-06-17 16:45:25 UTC
Decripid Sano wrote:

It's very very difficult to find and meet people you can trust to do something like WH's in eve.


I have to completely disagree with this statement. There are plenty of good, trustworthy, and helpful groups in wspace. Many representatives have already posted in this thread, more can be found elsewhere in this section . If you find no groups trustworthy, or willing to take you in, then perhaps you are the issue, not them. But trying to make a solo go at wh life is almost certainly going to end up in failure and frustration.

If you tell us what you are looking for specifically, in terms of play style, I or others can certainly get you headed in the right direction with folks that suit your wants/desires. Most of us want more active, engaged, and competent players in wspace, not less. If you don't want to post up here, feel free to convo me in-game...

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

GordonO
BURN EDEN
#43 - 2015-06-17 19:53:19 UTC
HoruSeth wrote:
your problem might not be the tank. Your problem might be the damage to break sleepers remote rep.
1.66k passive recharge from your first fit is enough for the anoms, but if you do not have drone Skilly and Missile Skills to V it can be hard to break the RR-Tank from the the sleepers to finish the site!



I used to run c4's solo in a tengu with 5 launchers, and if you pay attention even with the low dps of 5 launchers on a HML tengu you can do the sites. You can't of course do that anymore in a tengu since they fixed the neuting/heavy nos'ing and nerfed the range of HML's.
The tengu did have a smaller sig radius that the snake will have, with only 45ish k buffer and a 2k active omni tank and the shields never went below 70% most of the time.
You could always try it on the test server first

... What next ??

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-06-17 22:29:14 UTC
I don't have time right now to go through and point out every stupid comment in this thread so I'll just give you 2 tips:

1 buy a marauder
2 sell the rattlesnake

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Fapping Happens
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-06-17 22:51:11 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
I don't have time right now to go through and point out every stupid comment in this thread so I'll just give you 2 tips:

1 buy a marauder
2 sell the rattlesnake



3 Build a damn Tranny Thanny and forget about tank, dps or anything else for that matter.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-06-18 00:33:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Decripid Sano
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
I intend to reduce the mass of the remaining statics to critical mass so that no fleet large enough would be able to take on my 2 rattlers without me not being able to escape.



A crit C5 can be up to 300m kg of mass left. That's like 200 bombers or something stupid. You might kill a few of them, but not all. Just something to consider. Perhaps if you bubbled the crit hole and put a scout on it you might have enough warning/time to get out of the site, but realistically it's still possible for the enemy to bring in insurmountable force through a crit hole. I mean, you're only one man, recognize that.


Not doing C5's, just C4's and maybe C3's.


Ok wiseass, well C4's and C3's also have crit values in the hundreds if millions of kilograms and that allow dozens of frigs and dessies, which is my point. Don't be pedantic.

Like Nash said, everybody's gonna wanna dunk you. Hope you've got good scouts.


I wasn't trying to be smart miss, just putting it out there that I'm not trying to do C5's atm. And I get what you're saying, I'm gonna get killed....no problem for me as long as I get some isk out it and to alleviate the boredom I'm currently suffering from being stuck in safe-sec. If I get ganked too much then I'll just return to safe-sec and grind lev 4 missions. Right now I'm trying to get as much helpful advice as I can so that I can live and stay in a WH permanently because believe me, I do not like been stuck in safe-sec.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-06-18 01:00:05 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Good thread, and great to see discussion and more activity in wh. But to the OP, do not spend more than you are ok to lose because while I speak only for my own alliance, any 1 of our corps can easily take what you intend to have on grid, as could well over a couple dozen other competent wh corps/alliances. Wspace is no joke, and when people hear of a Rattlesnake or 2 running sites, they will make a real effort to take them down without it ever being a fight. The attackers will be ready to be counter-jumped and you just won't have that backup available. What you propose to rat with, is exactly what we love finding, and taking down. 2-3 properly fit ships can take down what you will be bringing, and I guarantee there will be double to triple that actually on-grid or waiting to assist. I just don't want you to be discouraged when it happens, and it will.

Having said all that, some good advice has been given already. But if you really want to be successful, find a good wspace group and learn the ropes. At least it will give you a fighting chance...


Finding a good WH corp is very difficult for me since my free time changes constantly and there's that important trust factor that takes time to cumulate (and I'm very impatient). Eve been around for over a decade, so many people had plenty of time to get to know one another and build relationships. I just started playing for a year just grinding lev 4 missions by myself, so I have no connections. And honestly I prefer doing things solo as things tend to go more smoothly that way for me. If I did decide to join a WH, I would prefer it to be a small-mid size one (less red tape and reduce chances of getting awoxed).

But your statement and the ones I heard previously in this thread has got me started wondering..., Has Eve Online become a game that joining a Corp has become mandatory?
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-06-18 01:12:12 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
Brain Eater wrote:
I would listen to OROB. You really shouldnt be trying to run solo c4 sites if you think 1 ishtar and a falcon are going to save you. I would suggest joining an active wormhole corporation for backup, faster site clearing, and generally more fun.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47297733/ That is what will happen to you. Granted not all the time but those loses are never fun and can set you back quite a bit after all your hard work. Not to mention the ugly loss mail.


Which class are soloable, C3's maybe? It's very very difficult to find and meet people you can trust to do something like WH's in eve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3o0dtLIHbk that's some pretty semi-afk farming with two characters (one is just activating mods and assigning drones once a site). Domis are about 80mil after platinum insurance.

For c4s, I only run barracks tbh cause I don't like all the frigstuff in other anoms and running a MTU. For c4 Barracks, you need links and refit one energy transfer for another DLA and go full hardeners.


Yes this was my original intentions and I can totally live with losing 240 mill (the cost of 3 Domis) when someone attempts to gank me, also I heard RR domis are quite formidable in their own right. But the micro managing is a very tedious task when using 3 RR domis, unless I'm not doing it right. I wish there where videos on Youtube that showed you how to maximize the use of RR Domis in WH's since the Rattlers have a bloodlust tag on them.

Maybe I should hold off on using the Rattlers until I mastered using 2 RR Domis in C3s. Lloyd do you happen to know of any videos or links that'll give you tips on how to use 2 or 3 RR domis to maximum effect.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-06-18 01:19:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Decripid Sano
Jack Miton wrote:
I don't have time right now to go through and point out every stupid comment in this thread so I'll just give you 2 tips:

1 buy a marauder
2 sell the rattlesnake


???? Can you please go into more details as to why ONE Marauder is better than TWO Rattlesnakes?

Also from what I hear, when using a Marauder in C4 WH's, as soon as you hit Bastion....guess what happens? D-scan is filled up with 20 + sigs and closing distance to your location very very quickly. But to bad you can't just warp off even though you're already aligned cause you're STILL stuck in Bastion....
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#50 - 2015-06-18 01:52:53 UTC
pffft.

if you are too scared to use a single marauder to do C4's but are happy to use 2 RR Rattlers, and quote the same exact reason, you are delusional. If it's too dangerous for one 1.6B ISk ship, why do you need 2?

I won't go into too many details, but I'll link a few Rattler kills for you, just to illustrate what happens to Rattlers.

This is kinda of on par with your setup. Note it's a Magnetar, and one logi was enough.

Frigate hole entrance, C3 Cat. Not enough of a deterrence.

Another frig hole entrance, and another Rattler dunked.

Not safe from frigates in a Paladin either. Note: only takes 5, you better have those entries critted to an inch of their lives!

So, yeah...why so afraid of using Marauders vs Rattlers? Both are gank magnets people will go out of their way to kill. We certainly do. The paladin there, we went 25 jumps through k-space via a frig hole exit and came in via a critted hole, and YOLOed it with 5 ships.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-06-18 06:33:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Decripid Sano wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
I don't have time right now to go through and point out every stupid comment in this thread so I'll just give you 2 tips:

1 buy a marauder
2 sell the rattlesnake


???? Can you please go into more details as to why ONE Marauder is better than TWO Rattlesnakes?

Also from what I hear, when using a Marauder in C4 WH's, as soon as you hit Bastion....guess what happens? D-scan is filled up with 20 + sigs and closing distance to your location very very quickly. But to bad you can't just warp off even though you're already aligned cause you're STILL stuck in Bastion....


A: 1 marauder IS better than 2 rattlesnakes (ok, VERY slightly less DPS from 1 Paladin compared to 2 Rattlesnakes)
B: Buy 2 if you want
C: People will gank your rattlers just as easily as a marauder (seriously, they will.)
D: Don't be a sissy

Marauders are superior in every single way to a rattlesnake for running C4 and C5 site.
- Way more DPS
- Easier damage projection and applications (all drones are miserable for WH pve)
- Much better tank
- Much better cap
- Lots of utility mids and highs

The only reason to ever fly a rattlesnake for non carrier assisted WH PVE is that you cannot fly a marauder and are too lazy to train it.

Bottom line is that the only way to be completely safe running sites in a WH is to not run site in a WH. If you can't accept that, HS incursions are still around.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#52 - 2015-06-18 08:58:11 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
pffft.

if you are too scared to use a single marauder to do C4's but are happy to use 2 RR Rattlers, and quote the same exact reason, you are delusional. If it's too dangerous for one 1.6B ISk ship, why do you need 2?

I won't go into too many details, but I'll link a few Rattler kills for you, just to illustrate what happens to Rattlers.

This is kinda of on par with your setup. Note it's a Magnetar, and one logi was enough.

Frigate hole entrance, C3 Cat. Not enough of a deterrence.

Another frig hole entrance, and another Rattler dunked.

Not safe from frigates in a Paladin either. Note: only takes 5, you better have those entries critted to an inch of their lives!

So, yeah...why so afraid of using Marauders vs Rattlers? Both are gank magnets people will go out of their way to kill. We certainly do. The paladin there, we went 25 jumps through k-space via a frig hole exit and came in via a critted hole, and YOLOed it with 5 ships.


That does it, it's back to the Domis we go. You can kill my 2 domis all you want, I'm still doing WH's. My implants won't be worth more than 20 mill so it's all good. Marauders and Rattlers are out, not worth it xD, especially since even Marauders can die to just a handful of AF & T3D's.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-06-18 11:36:40 UTC
if youre using 2 ships, domis are roughly the same as rattlesnakes anyway. rattlers suck.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#54 - 2015-06-18 12:10:19 UTC
Decripid Sano wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
Brain Eater wrote:
I would listen to OROB. You really shouldnt be trying to run solo c4 sites if you think 1 ishtar and a falcon are going to save you. I would suggest joining an active wormhole corporation for backup, faster site clearing, and generally more fun.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47297733/ That is what will happen to you. Granted not all the time but those loses are never fun and can set you back quite a bit after all your hard work. Not to mention the ugly loss mail.


Which class are soloable, C3's maybe? It's very very difficult to find and meet people you can trust to do something like WH's in eve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3o0dtLIHbk that's some pretty semi-afk farming with two characters (one is just activating mods and assigning drones once a site). Domis are about 80mil after platinum insurance.

For c4s, I only run barracks tbh cause I don't like all the frigstuff in other anoms and running a MTU. For c4 Barracks, you need links and refit one energy transfer for another DLA and go full hardeners.


Yes this was my original intentions and I can totally live with losing 240 mill (the cost of 3 Domis) when someone attempts to gank me, also I heard RR domis are quite formidable in their own right. But the micro managing is a very tedious task when using 3 RR domis, unless I'm not doing it right. I wish there where videos on Youtube that showed you how to maximize the use of RR Domis in WH's since the Rattlers have a bloodlust tag on them.

Maybe I should hold off on using the Rattlers until I mastered using 2 RR Domis in C3s. Lloyd do you happen to know of any videos or links that'll give you tips on how to use 2 or 3 RR domis to maximum effect.


Right there, I can't really get more performance out of those domis for c3s. You only need around 65k drone range, and you can only really fit 4 DDAs. As for handling:

For c3 anoms, I warp to 0m, drop sentries and the assist-domi (the one using OTC instead of painters) sets drones to guard the other. That way, frigs in the first wave die instantly and very likely trigger the second wave right away (fortification/solar cell). By the time your domis locked each other, you set the assist-domi's set to assist the painting one, activate all RR-mods and minimize the client. (If you don't have good RR skills, use one repairer constantly and pulse the other)
Then you just go through all sleepers, and make sure you kill the trigger while leaving one cruiser alive to shoot while you lock new ships from the next wave.

Basics are really just:
- One domi is *actively piloted* and has two painters.
- All other domis have omnidirectional tracking links and remote sebos fitted, so the actively piloted domi has some decent lockspeed.
- You need two large shield transfers incoming to sustain up to c3 datas/relics, and you need 3 for c4-anoms with 4 hardneers fit.

Then in outposts, the last wave got two BS and 4 frigs. You can just kill the BS and leave the frigs, they'll despawn quickly anyway. If you're running Frontier fortification, make sure you carry as many MTUs as you got FFs to run cause the MTU takes ages to tractor all the small crap, same for oruze.

For c3 oruze and c4 barracks, you can warp to the site at 100km and bounce to the structure by warping to the rock behind it at range. Then for barracks, the initial spawn is 20k off you, the upholder wave is 65 below you (they will eat your buffer, so you better hurry on those) and the preserver wave is at 105k roughly, so just within range.

You can armorfit them aswell, however you'll need more pilots to get to similar performance.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-06-18 12:57:16 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
Brain Eater wrote:
I would listen to OROB. You really shouldnt be trying to run solo c4 sites if you think 1 ishtar and a falcon are going to save you. I would suggest joining an active wormhole corporation for backup, faster site clearing, and generally more fun.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47297733/ That is what will happen to you. Granted not all the time but those loses are never fun and can set you back quite a bit after all your hard work. Not to mention the ugly loss mail.


Which class are soloable, C3's maybe? It's very very difficult to find and meet people you can trust to do something like WH's in eve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3o0dtLIHbk that's some pretty semi-afk farming with two characters (one is just activating mods and assigning drones once a site). Domis are about 80mil after platinum insurance.

For c4s, I only run barracks tbh cause I don't like all the frigstuff in other anoms and running a MTU. For c4 Barracks, you need links and refit one energy transfer for another DLA and go full hardeners.


Yes this was my original intentions and I can totally live with losing 240 mill (the cost of 3 Domis) when someone attempts to gank me, also I heard RR domis are quite formidable in their own right. But the micro managing is a very tedious task when using 3 RR domis, unless I'm not doing it right. I wish there where videos on Youtube that showed you how to maximize the use of RR Domis in WH's since the Rattlers have a bloodlust tag on them.

Maybe I should hold off on using the Rattlers until I mastered using 2 RR Domis in C3s. Lloyd do you happen to know of any videos or links that'll give you tips on how to use 2 or 3 RR domis to maximum effect.


Right there, I can't really get more performance out of those domis for c3s. You only need around 65k drone range, and you can only really fit 4 DDAs. As for handling:

For c3 anoms, I warp to 0m, drop sentries and the assist-domi (the one using OTC instead of painters) sets drones to guard the other. That way, frigs in the first wave die instantly and very likely trigger the second wave right away (fortification/solar cell). By the time your domis locked each other, you set the assist-domi's set to assist the painting one, activate all RR-mods and minimize the client. (If you don't have good RR skills, use one repairer constantly and pulse the other)
Then you just go through all sleepers, and make sure you kill the trigger while leaving one cruiser alive to shoot while you lock new ships from the next wave.

Basics are really just:
- One domi is *actively piloted* and has two painters.
- All other domis have omnidirectional tracking links and remote sebos fitted, so the actively piloted domi has some decent lockspeed.
- You need two large shield transfers incoming to sustain up to c3 datas/relics, and you need 3 for c4-anoms with 4 hardneers fit.

Then in outposts, the last wave got two BS and 4 frigs. You can just kill the BS and leave the frigs, they'll despawn quickly anyway. If you're running Frontier fortification, make sure you carry as many MTUs as you got FFs to run cause the MTU takes ages to tractor all the small crap, same for oruze.

For c3 oruze and c4 barracks, you can warp to the site at 100km and bounce to the structure by warping to the rock behind it at range. Then for barracks, the initial spawn is 20k off you, the upholder wave is 65 below you (they will eat your buffer, so you better hurry on those) and the preserver wave is at 105k roughly, so just within range.

You can armorfit them aswell, however you'll need more pilots to get to similar performance.


I see, so much to learn. I need to get started with this right away so I can get this down. I can use 2 RR Domis (with a 3rd on the way) both shield & armor tanking, max RR, Drones, and Support skills (around 19 mill SP), but I have no TP skills on these chars, are they really needed? I do have a char that can use an ultra brick tanking Sacrilege (without missile skills) that have very good TP & support skills, would this suffice?
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#56 - 2015-06-19 00:38:06 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre using 2 ships, domis are roughly the same as rattlesnakes anyway. rattlers suck.


I think it is safe to disregard this statement as-is because it simply isn't true, based on personal experience and max skills for both ships. However, for the ISK you are risking, Domi's may be a better choice.

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2015-06-19 04:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Keith Planck
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH

looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-06-19 05:12:23 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH
looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running

the fact that a rattlesnake CAN do it is really not in question here.
what is, is that it SHOULD do it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-06-19 06:02:44 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH

looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running


IT'S YOU, the man who inspired me about the greatness of Rattlers in WHs. I was so inspired when I saw your video that I immediately begin plugging in skills to get this magnificent ship, But the people in this thread has got me pissing my pants at the thought of trying to do C4's in the Rattlers. Tell me man, what's your secret, how do you do it and tell me honestly, should I attempt to do this with 2 Rattlers, a scout/scanner/salvager, a siege link booster, a Ishtar and a Falcon? Or do I need to join a WH corp?

Also can you get me some suggestions on using RR Domis as well? Thanks man, you're like a Rockstar in eve.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#60 - 2015-06-19 06:13:18 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH
looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running

the fact that a rattlesnake CAN do it is really not in question here.
what is, is that it SHOULD do it.


My intentions are to do C3s then C4s, not C5s (that's mostly for Capitals) and I honestly believe that Rattlers (if not in a Corp) are more safer than Marauders cause of Bastion (it's a double-edge sword).

And that sinister fella Trickey Fiend I think his name was showed the kill mail with just 5 ships taking down a Paladin, JUST 5 and those ships were mostly AF's & T3D's. You think Just 5 ships could've taken down 2 RR Rattlers, I seriously doubt it unless the pilots were AFKing.