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[Duality] Sovereignty Playtest Competition

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CAPS TIME
Doomheim
#341 - 2015-06-26 18:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: CAPS TIME
You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2015-06-26 19:38:57 UTC
CAPS TIME wrote:
You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP?

He's not warning them I am. I'm also one of the best capital fcs in the game. The fracture point currently in an entosis engagement is the entosis ship itself. Sub capital fights have shown that overwhelmingly you can counter your opponent by simply alpha striking him of the field. So the natural inclination is going to be too use the beefiest ship you can to get the job done. And you won't deploy a single carrier, they'll be in groups. Jump fatigue won't matter since carriers can take gates, and it'll all be nice and close in a singular constellation.

My alliance can put 100 carriers down without much effort in groups of twenty and still have a gigantic ball of supers ready to drop should an entity try to counter the pod of carriers.

What's a smaller entity, or even a weak coalition going to do against that? And what is our disincentive? A few extra minutes for a near sure win?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#343 - 2015-06-26 20:15:29 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
CAPS TIME wrote:
You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP?

He's not warning them I am. I'm also one of the best capital fcs in the game. The fracture point currently in an entosis engagement is the entosis ship itself. Sub capital fights have shown that overwhelmingly you can counter your opponent by simply alpha striking him of the field. So the natural inclination is going to be too use the beefiest ship you can to get the job done. And you won't deploy a single carrier, they'll be in groups. Jump fatigue won't matter since carriers can take gates, and it'll all be nice and close in a singular constellation.

My alliance can put 100 carriers down without much effort in groups of twenty and still have a gigantic ball of supers ready to drop should an entity try to counter the pod of carriers.

What's a smaller entity, or even a weak coalition going to do against that? And what is our disincentive? A few extra minutes for a near sure win?


To be fair nerfing the entosis link for caps won't curtail that tactic... all you need to do is put and entosis link ship in the middle of your carrier pod and the result will likely be the same...

Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#344 - 2015-06-26 22:20:03 UTC
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
CAPS TIME wrote:
You are over reacting, how does he testing links on capitals(his words) more than a week ago "scream warning to ccp" and lead you to think it's OP?

He's not warning them I am. I'm also one of the best capital fcs in the game. The fracture point currently in an entosis engagement is the entosis ship itself. Sub capital fights have shown that overwhelmingly you can counter your opponent by simply alpha striking him of the field. So the natural inclination is going to be too use the beefiest ship you can to get the job done. And you won't deploy a single carrier, they'll be in groups. Jump fatigue won't matter since carriers can take gates, and it'll all be nice and close in a singular constellation.

My alliance can put 100 carriers down without much effort in groups of twenty and still have a gigantic ball of supers ready to drop should an entity try to counter the pod of carriers.

What's a smaller entity, or even a weak coalition going to do against that? And what is our disincentive? A few extra minutes for a near sure win?


To be fair nerfing the entosis link for caps won't curtail that tactic... all you need to do is put and entosis link ship in the middle of your carrier pod and the result will likely be the same...

Not really, you can still roll in with munnins, tornado's, machs, hell even a few grip of arty ruptures and just womp the entosis ship from range and then warp out.

It will take a capital force to stop an entosising capital force, and the entosising capital force will be the weapon of choice because its the ONLY thing that can withstand concentrated sub cap alpha.

An insured triage carrier is a minimalist loss comparatively to other things that will stand up to ewar.

This whole 'entosis ships wont start working until the grid is secure' is pure fantasy, we've proven that with the right ships you can easily do it with hostiles on grid.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#345 - 2015-06-26 23:35:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Quaan
And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?

You do have to work for the station, though.
Warmeister
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#346 - 2015-06-27 05:29:42 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?

You do have to work for the station, though.


i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station.

after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#347 - 2015-06-27 07:08:06 UTC
^ That's a really good idea; it's odd that, after all the design effort that's gone into dispersing the fighting, the final battle allows for, for example, your good selves, to drop a Superball onto the location and ninja it Cry

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#348 - 2015-06-27 10:57:26 UTC
Any news on when Duality will be back up?
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#349 - 2015-06-27 12:32:49 UTC
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
Any news on when Duality will be back up?


Now. Unfortunately I only saw it now, that the automated startup scripts failed.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
michael chasseur
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2015-06-27 12:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: michael chasseur
info isn't showing on systems now; made a petition

edit: yes my bad also fixed now quick work boys, ez mid gfgf
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#351 - 2015-06-27 13:04:45 UTC
michael chasseur wrote:
info isn't showing on systems now; made a petition


I hope by "petition" you mean "bug report" (F12 - Report Bug). Blink

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#352 - 2015-06-27 13:24:22 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
Any news on when Duality will be back up?


Now. Unfortunately I only saw it now, that the automated startup scripts failed.


You mean you aren't running something like Zabbix or Nagios to give you alerts when something fails?

-> Application to CCP as network engineer incoming :)
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#353 - 2015-06-27 17:54:14 UTC
upgrades not working again at least in our cap system
utec asmo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#354 - 2015-06-27 19:22:48 UTC
Thanks for fixing freeport nodes.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#355 - 2015-06-27 21:29:23 UTC
Warmeister wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?

You do have to work for the station, though.


i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station.

after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself.

^^

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#356 - 2015-06-27 22:00:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Warmeister wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?

You do have to work for the station, though.


i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station.

after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself.

^^



You mad bro?

maybe you could of spent all day grinding thru 80 station nodes with 40-60mins entosis timers on them all day because concord stations are still bugged and have indexes applied to them still.

Its not that bad of a system you just have to protect one area for 12 mins ... were as in TQ sov you have to protect TCU's for 6h.
You failed to protect the tcu and decided to put all your forces in bubbles on the in-gate in a non cyno jammed system.
Ryno Caval
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#357 - 2015-06-28 05:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryno Caval
I don't know how I feel about changing the mechanic of the TCU and IHUB since there are counters to the drops and what not I mean again this is a test server and the real challenge with be defending what you put down. You basically just have to counter in force as well as ensure you have a cyno inhibitor, mobile or otherwise. Also if you do it right you can drop TCU's and IHUB's simultaneously across the constellation (requires some coordination) to prevent ninjas as well as locate the force that will be dropping in and basically putting your blob on their blob there to ensure capture for yourself. Yes, FozzieSov was supposed to reduce blob warfare but not totally remove it. You just have more moving parts which creates a level of complexity and depth to overall strategy. You can't just wait for reinforce timers and cyno in both forces. It creates roles for hunter's and for tacticians rather than just saying this is reinforced so we are waiting for the timer and putting max dudes to take it. The overall coordination makes this far more interesting and causes people who are in tactical leadership positions to think of multi-layered attack and defense strategies rather than the traditional epeen measuring contest that Dominion SOV created.
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#358 - 2015-06-28 08:11:21 UTC
Sadly, Duality didn't restart again today. CCP Habakuk can you fix it?
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#359 - 2015-06-28 14:05:19 UTC
Ryno Caval wrote:
I don't know how I feel about changing the mechanic of the TCU and IHUB since there are counters to the drops and what not I mean again this is a test server and the real challenge with be defending what you put down. You basically just have to counter in force as well as ensure you have a cyno inhibitor, mobile or otherwise. Also if you do it right you can drop TCU's and IHUB's simultaneously across the constellation (requires some coordination) to prevent ninjas as well as locate the force that will be dropping in and basically putting your blob on their blob there to ensure capture for yourself. Yes, FozzieSov was supposed to reduce blob warfare but not totally remove it. You just have more moving parts which creates a level of complexity and depth to overall strategy. You can't just wait for reinforce timers and cyno in both forces. It creates roles for hunter's and for tacticians rather than just saying this is reinforced so we are waiting for the timer and putting max dudes to take it. The overall coordination makes this far more interesting and causes people who are in tactical leadership positions to think of multi-layered attack and defense strategies rather than the traditional epeen measuring contest that Dominion SOV created.



Holy wall of text:

I'll address one thing: Fozzie sov is supposed to remove EHP based sov warfare NOT reduce blob warfare. Blob warfare was semi reduced when you have the nodes popping up around the constellation for station capture. It is crazy to think some nerd won't jam 1000 people in a system to do XX at any time.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#360 - 2015-06-28 14:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Tappits wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Warmeister wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
And while we're at it, taking sov is still ultimately tied to a single location event when you defend/contest a freshly dropped IHub/TCU. I'm not saying that waiting for that contest is a good strategy for a defender, you do after all lose your current structure and all its benefits, but it is most definitely viable for an opportunist third party attacker that just so happens to be in the area. Why go through all the grinding if you can simply drop the hammer for 20 min at the end?

You do have to work for the station, though.


i agree, it hink it'd be better if tcu/ihub followed same mechanics as station.

after new tcu/ihub is launched - it should start spawning nodes in the constellation, just like the freeported station. if more than one entity is contesting sov - they should fight for those nodes, rather than trying to put a large blob on the structure itself.

^^



You mad bro?

maybe you could of spent all day grinding thru 80 station nodes with 40-60mins entosis timers on them all day because concord stations are still bugged and have indexes applied to them still.

Its not that bad of a system you just have to protect one area for 12 mins ... were as in TQ sov you have to protect TCU's for 6h.
You failed to protect the tcu and decided to put all your forces in bubbles on the in-gate in a non cyno jammed system.
Don't be obtuse - you can't cyno jam someone else's system.... (the TCU grid had multiple cyno inhibs, as you were aware).

No, not mad - I think we did all we could in yesterday's fight (pushed the Archon you had, back through the gate when you first tried, killed the Marauders you pushed through, until you finally managed to burn interceptors through the bubble and away from the inhibs to get the initial cyno up...). It just gets immensely frustrating when it appears someone can sit back, with no eyes in system, and know when it's time to drop the Supers and clean up, and yet for a station, you have to work for it.

Given that this is the feedback thread - feedback provided.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293