Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If they have diminushign return, your threashold of "can't do enough damage now" will just be lower and you will have to dock up again. You do realize this right?

Now list the organisations with enough dreads to take on the Imperiums capital fleet. Even we couldn't dump enough dreads on a supercap/carrier blob and do any damage, we had to bring in our own even bigger super/titan blob.

A gardian giving ~340 armor HP/s is not that scary until resist come into the equation imo. Would there be any massive problem created by inflating every ship's raw HP and adjusting the resist profiles to get the same or better alpha protection without leaving logi's number grow proportionally insanely large? Base resist and resist giving modules all getting reduced so you can't get stupid stuff like 90%+ resist which amplify the effect of logistic ships.

First, who says that I am lazy? The current mechanic says that the only way I can win is if I have a bigger fleet with as much or more Logi. What if my coalition/alliance/corporation/buddies isn't 250 strong and always playing all at the same time? Am I lazy because I haven't quit my RL job so that I can play at the peak times for my alliance? Am I unprepared just because I can't find 100 other players to play with me because they're also busy doing their own thing? Laziness has nothing to do with it!

Secondly, I haven't said anything about a subcap vs capital fight, I'm talking about similarly fitted fleets, and if one has more logi, that fleet will win. With your example, marines vs tanks, no, I would not expect the marines to win. I would however expect a few of the marines to die gloriously to distract the tanks so some other marines could drop grenades inside the tank and make it go boom.

A better example, marine vs marine, I would expect that the 50 man group could go ahead and kill some of the 100 man group and have a meaningful impact in the grand scale of the fight, rather than saying, lets head back to the bunker and not even try to fight the other guys.

Thirdly, me playing eve the way I WANT TO is the correct way to play eve... If I want a blue donut I'll, get one, if not, I won't. Besides the fact that this discussion isnt about the blue donut, if the mechanics force people to play that way, I'd say that is whats wrong... not me being unable/unwilling to get a bigger fleet.

Fourth, this kind of idea might actually make fleet planning and execution even more necessary, rather than simply bringing as much DPS and Logi as you can and rolling over the other guy.




Again, its not about lazy, its about being forced to get a bigger group to have even a chance to "play," and if I can't do that, well I just can't play. That is not the way this should work, and this is an idea to make it so that smaller groups can have meaningful impact in the world of fleet warfare.


Finally, I have adapted. I've adapted for the last 10 years, and been happy to do so. Maybe they make a Logi change... maybe they don't. I'd suggest you take a bit of your own Adapt or Die medicine and be willing to look at things from a different perspective.

Problem there becomes fleet organization. Most fleets keep their logi in their own squads so they can warp independent of the fleet. Dps is also not restricted to squad broadcasts. Line of sight would be the ideal fix to both problems.... but ccp and stuff



Edit: or make them both squad broadcasts

For one, I am calling you lazy. You are coming to CCP to fix your problems rather than fixing them yourself. Coalitions exist because of power in numbers. The solution to your problems is not "bring more logi" but "bring more alpha" or a proper fleet composition to handle it. Start be actually targeting their logistics who are far less tanky than their dps ships I promise you then go after their dps ships once their logistics have been brought to a low enough level. Not a solution you like? Fine, bring in a bomb wing and void bomb their logi and dps ships to turn off hardeners. Now your lesser dps group will have an easier time breaking their logistics. Still not good enough for you? Bring damps in combination to the void bombs. You will break their cap chains, you will bring their logistics in closer to their main fleet and be able to pop them off one after another. Still not good enough??? Here's something straight out of the goon playboook: strap ecm bursts onto a few ceptors and warp them on top of the dps/logi groups, burst, then warp off and repeat. Bottom line is there are tactics to handle every situation in EVE. If you can't think of a way look at what others are doing. Get more friends to help you put up a fight, recruit more players to fill the gaps in your alliances peak time, get more alliances in your mini-coalition who cover your weak points and you there's. That is how EVE funtions, it is an MMO, no one group is expected to be good at everything. Even Goons would fall flat on their face in many engagements if they didn't have other alliances to stand beside them. Stop trying to be a special snowflake and looking towards CCP to fix what you perceive to be unfair because it forces you to adapt your playstyle to what actually WORKS.



Welcome to EVE Online, an MMO where players get power through numbers and must work together to survive.

@ Ben: Thanks for the positive feedback

@ Nasar: Sheesh, sorry I accidentally pee'd in your Wheaties yesterday! I'm pretty sure I never mentioned anything being unfair, nor do I think I'm a special snowflake, nor am I whining to CCP that the game is broken. Instead, I'm pretty sure that I'm simply putting an idea out about a potential change to the way logistics modules work that might add some new and/or fun gameplay to a system that has been in place since I started playing the game 10 years ago.

So, to that end, does anyone have any reasonable feedback about ways this idea would totally fail, be broken, work well, be awesome or any other constructive feedback (rather that simply complaining that I'm lazy!!)

Fake Edit: I am currently sitting in my office at work typing on these forums using my work computer - Lazy or Awesome as a descriptor of my behavior is up for debate!

@OP Sorry for snapping on you the other day. You have to realize any of us who regularly visit these forums literally see this post every other week, if not more often. Humorously enough with dang near exactly the same idea every time. The unique part of your idea is the remote resist amps. While I agree this would give more options to logi it simply exacerbates what people already complain about with logistics/reps scaling "too well" with resists. And unfortunately as Frostys' pointed out, in order for these new remote amps to make up for the loss in buffer they would need to be applied at yellow box otherwise they will succumb to the alpha of the enemy fleet.

Here's are a few of the problems with this in a nutshell so I can actually be considered giving you feedback, not just bile:
1) Removal of remote direct reps for remote amplifiers will over time reduce the number of viable doctrine ships as the focus will begin to shift to hulls with local rep/buffer bonuses.
2) Trading buffer for a local rep results in increased susceptibility to alpha
3) Remote amps must be applied at yellow box to presumably bring tanks to their current EHP or higher to defend against alpha
-This is not simply making logistics harder, this is nearly impossible in most all cases due to lock times and fast target swapping.
4) Remote amps would need to cover all resistance types similar to an enam as expecting logistics to pick between 4 different remote resist modules is asking far too much on such limited hulls.
-Could always allow for scripting to focus the resistances if you'd really like, but doesn't solve #3
5) One of two things: cap chain importance increased significantly for sustaining non-cap stable dps ships -or- dps ships must forgo more damage and tank to gain cap stability
6) Power of neuts/void bomb increased exponentially as now capping out a single ship means that ship will now die without immediate cap transfers
-More variety in logistics may sound like a good thing, but what you're actually doing is increasing the minimum required logistics required to bring with your fleet. I.E. increasing minimum fleet size hurting smaller groups further.

Something I missed my first and second read through that I feel worth pointing out tho I'm sure you know....
7) Remote hardener numbers you threw out are far more powerful than past iterations I've seen. Obviously your numbers are just ones you threw out but a ship can reach 98-99% resists easily with a handful of logi using your numbers even after DR.
-The idea of a 95%+ omni tank ceptor with a small shield booster...



I could list more off, but I don't think it's necessary. You knew your idea would have flaws, you asked for suggestions yourself as have all the others before you. While your suggestion does add more variety for logistics pilots it very much limits fleet comps. You may not realize this right off but this would actually just hurt small gangs/alliances more in the long run. Large alliances will simply bring more logistics even to a 1:1 scale if they must.
Your suggestion, just as the may others before you, view this as an opportunity for the smaller alliances to fight back, when in reality they are the least suited to handle such a drastic change. Small alliances can function as well as they can due to simplicity. This places more importance, not less, on the number of logistics pilots fielded all while reducing the number of viable dps ships and fittings by making each individual's survivability centered around their local rep in conjunction with their logistic's lock times.

For the future tho, please please use the search function and pull up past posts on the subject. Read what they have suggested as well as what people have said in response. Reply to those unless you feel your idea so monumentally different (or that post completely off topic) that it merits making a new post.

Try reading.

I said all things being equal and in brackets it never is. And that is where balance comes in.

Why not bring more logi or some nuets? or try something other than "My fleet A can't beat fleet B, therefore eve is broken nurf logi".

Why? Why should Fleet A be able to damage fleet B? Regardless of anything else? How does logi break EVE? It doesn't. Plain and simple.

Incoming DPS doesn't get stacking penalties, or other arbitrary restrictions placed on it. Why should reps. Your trying to fix something that just isn't broken.