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Warfare & Tactics

 
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A thought about Boosters:
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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-07-12 18:14:40 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
People who complain about off grid boosts don't realize that if CCP removes them they will be in a much worse off position.


Example:

I'm sitting in a medium plex.

You come to pew pew because 1v1 in an MMO is smart and how it's ment to be played.

I tackle and decloak a falcon because my boost toon is now more useful as an ECM pilot.


That will be the new reality.

Don't think you'll be safe in novice or small plexes either.
99% of frigate fights last long enough for the cloaking lock delay to be well and truly over making a cloaking Griffin very viable. (I have tested this and the tears flowed way more than when I use boosts)


So yeah - keep asking for boosts on grid people. Then you can start complaining about the next thing until all that is left are the things that suit your solo play style in an MMO. Or you could buy Elite Dangerous and get that now. Cool



You really don't understand why this mentality is bad for a game do you?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#62 - 2015-07-13 16:34:30 UTC
Degnar Oskold wrote:
Not suspect timer but weapons timer



So you want a 1 minute timer for a command ship sitting on a station? That's borderline - what's the point. It's worthless for 1v1 heros. It's not like 1 guy can can pop a reasonable tanked command ship in a minute.

Here's how it should work.

1. Weapons timer while anyone you are boosting is engaged in combat. If you're bro is on a gate in lowsex and takes gate guns, then you on the station should take station guns. If the law intervenes on the guy you're boosting then they should be on your patoot also. (the way to beat this would be to get off the station)

2. You get a limited engagement timer with anyone the guy you are boosting get a limited engagement timer with.

3. You get a suspect timer if the rules warrant it.

Example 1 - you and your combat bro are in the same corp. youre combat bro engages someone. he doesn't get a suspect timer and neither do you.

Example 2 - you're a risk averse neutral sissified boosting alt boosting your combat bro. you're aiding a 3rd party - you get a suspect timer.


That's totally how it should work and there really isn't any room for discussion. You can't half assist anyone for half consequences. You either put a dog in the fight or you don't. When they change it - it will be changed correctly. None of these halfassed compromises. There is no need to compromise with someone when they are wrong. You just tell them NO.

The mechanic as is reeks of risk aversion. That is a fact that can not be argued. There is no good reason for someone aiding a fight to not have the same consquences as the pilot doing the dps portion of the combat. When it gets fixed - it will be fixed correctly.

The end is nigh risk averse little boosters. You had a pretty good run, be happy with that.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#63 - 2015-07-13 16:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
If a solo guy keeps getting into a fight where the other party is boosted, its kinda his situational awareness that is at fault.

One more time, balancing EVE for a niche activity while impacting thousands of other players doesnt seem like a great idea to me.

As for taking station guns, i dont think that is needed. Asking NPC's to solve your problems is also not a good idea.

Weapons timer and suspect marker should be enough to get those that dont leave station dread blapped often enough.

If the solution means less ships in space its a bad solution. if it means more ships in space (even bigger ones), then the idea is worth exploring.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#64 - 2015-07-13 18:25:54 UTC
Am I the only one thinking that timers for links will affect everyone in the squad leader role regardless of whether or not they're a warfare-links-fitted puppet or an actual FC?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#65 - 2015-07-13 18:42:39 UTC
Plato Forko wrote:
Am I the only one thinking that timers for links will affect everyone in the squad leader role regardless of whether or not they're a warfare-links-fitted puppet or an actual FC?


A simple solution would be to tie the weapons timer and suspect to activating the module. Crude, but makes identifying links in local a little easier.
takedoom
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-07-13 19:49:19 UTC
Who is going to use a combat booster then? No one. The idea of on grid boosters, weapon timers, suspect timers, ect will just kill another important aspect of the game.

http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#67 - 2015-07-13 21:14:05 UTC
takedoom wrote:
Who is going to use a combat booster then? No one. The idea of on grid boosters, weapon timers, suspect timers, ect will just kill another important aspect of the game.


There are some suggestions here that will prevent much use of boosters at all, for example, on grid boosts. Suspect timers and weapon timers will just force people to safe spots where, with a little effort, people can attack them rather than watch them dock or jump through a gate.
Talis Mon
New Eden Noodling Club
#68 - 2015-07-13 21:27:03 UTC
I think that many have said that boosters can still be utiluzed, but that they are giving another a significant advantage and thus should acquire a higher level of risk. Logistics cruisers didn't retain immunity, and in my opinion some boosts are more advantagous. Basically, a booster of another shouldn't be able to just sit on a station or gate and if attacked (because I actually know that it's a boosting alt) I receive a plethora of bad voodoo.

Not to mention that even when off station they still have the ability to cloak or be very difficult to actually scan down. Point is they are getting a type of win button and should commit some skin in the game.

The scales should be closer to equal, and it shouldn't take paying to win to achieve a bit more parity.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#69 - 2015-07-13 21:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Talis Mon wrote:
I think that many have said that boosters can still be utiluzed, but that they are giving another a significant advantage and thus should acquire a higher level of risk. Logistics cruisers didn't retain immunity, and in my opinion some boosts are more advantagous. Basically, a booster of another shouldn't be able to just sit on a station or gate and if attacked (because I actually know that it's a boosting alt) I receive a plethora of bad voodoo.

Not to mention that even when off station they still have the ability to cloak or be very difficult to actually scan down. Point is they are getting a type of win button and should commit some skin in the game.

The scales should be closer to equal, and it shouldn't take paying to win to achieve a bit more parity.


They have a boosting alt. You have a probing alt. You use your probing alt to prevent their booster from boosting. Or if it doesnt, to kill their booster or persuade it onto a station where it cannot dock while boosting.

But in most cases when a set of probes is closing in on a booster in a safe, thats the end of the boosts. No more boosts, but instead of crying for ccp to fix it, you fixed it yourself. Welcome to EVE.

You dont even need a probing alt now, with the new t3d's having combat a probing abilities.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#70 - 2015-07-13 23:07:38 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
People who complain about off grid boosts don't realize that if CCP removes them they will be in a much worse off position.


Example:

I'm sitting in a medium plex.

You come to pew pew because 1v1 in an MMO is smart and how it's ment to be played.

I tackle and decloak a falcon because my boost toon is now more useful as an ECM pilot.


That will be the new reality.

Don't think you'll be safe in novice or small plexes either.
99% of frigate fights last long enough for the cloaking lock delay to be well and truly over making a cloaking Griffin very viable. (I have tested this and the tears flowed way more than when I use boosts)


So yeah - keep asking for boosts on grid people. Then you can start complaining about the next thing until all that is left are the things that suit your solo play style in an MMO. Or you could buy Elite Dangerous and get that now. Cool



You really don't understand why this mentality is bad for a game do you?




When I started in low sec - I was a delusional scrub just like you.

Then I realized that it is the 'I wanna play a solo game within an MMO - Imma cry to CCP' mentality that is bad for the game and adapted.


https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#71 - 2015-07-14 10:58:13 UTC
takedoom wrote:
Who is going to use a combat booster then? No one. The idea of on grid boosters, weapon timers, suspect timers, ect will just kill another important aspect of the game.



People that are not risk averse muppets will use them.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#72 - 2015-07-14 21:28:52 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
takedoom wrote:
Who is going to use a combat booster then? No one. The idea of on grid boosters, weapon timers, suspect timers, ect will just kill another important aspect of the game.



People that are not risk averse muppets will use them.


No, as has already been said, they will just put up their OGB for a Falcon alt.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#73 - 2015-07-15 01:36:07 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
takedoom wrote:
Who is going to use a combat booster then? No one. The idea of on grid boosters, weapon timers, suspect timers, ect will just kill another important aspect of the game.



People that are not risk averse muppets will use them.


No, as has already been said, they will just put up their OGB for a Falcon alt.


Funny ccp has given us plenty of options to counter that(implants and mods).....there is no counter to booster alts .....except a booster alt.....even in gang combat this holds true. That is what is flawed.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#74 - 2015-07-15 02:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Snakes, Overdrive injector and Nanofiber is counter to skirmish links. More tank, slaves and crystals + blue pill is counter to siege and armour links etc. Perhaps the balance isnt perfect but suggesting that there are no counters is inaccurate. I do agree that having a fleet booster is the best way to ensure your fleet remains competitive, but apart from people complaining about compulsory alts in a game where everyone has alts, dont see any reasonable argument against that.

Suggesting that boosts are not a legitimate counter to boosts is also not accurate. It kinda sounds like the unfortunate 'supers can only be countered by more supers' argument. But there is no equivalence since having more boosters gives no additional advantage.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#75 - 2015-07-15 05:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: pushdogg
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Snakes, Overdrive injector and Nanofiber is counter to skirmish links. More tank, slaves and crystals + blue pill is counter to siege and armour links etc. Perhaps the balance isnt perfect but suggesting that there are no counters is inaccurate. I do agree that having a fleet booster is the best way to ensure your fleet remains competitive, but apart from people complaining about compulsory alts in a game where everyone has alts, dont see any reasonable argument against that.

Suggesting that boosts are not a legitimate counter to boosts is also not accurate. It kinda sounds like the unfortunate 'supers can only be countered by more supers' argument. But there is no equivalence since having more boosters gives no additional advantage.


I suggested that boosts are the only legitimate counter.....to boosts. You point with drugs and mods and implants....counters one warfare link......usually a booster will have 5 or so.

So in short a falcon can be hard countered and it takes 3 sets of implants + drugs to counter a booster alt.....
Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2015-07-15 06:20:43 UTC
Lamenting about links is sooooo 2014 and you could have trained your own combat booster by now. Why didn't ya's? Blink
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#77 - 2015-07-15 08:02:10 UTC
Silverbackyererse wrote:
Lamenting about links is sooooo 2014 and you could have trained your own combat booster by now. Why didn't ya's? Blink



Who`s to say I haven't.....
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#78 - 2015-07-15 08:27:40 UTC
pushdogg wrote:


So in short a falcon can be hard countered and it takes 3 sets of implants + drugs to counter a booster alt.....



If you are countering a Falcon then you are not doing the 'solo' pvp that creates the tears about boosters/this thread.


You just don't like the fact that smaller groups in cheaper ships can fight you if they have boosts available.





https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#79 - 2015-07-15 11:13:42 UTC
pushdogg wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Snakes, Overdrive injector and Nanofiber is counter to skirmish links. More tank, slaves and crystals + blue pill is counter to siege and armour links etc. Perhaps the balance isnt perfect but suggesting that there are no counters is inaccurate. I do agree that having a fleet booster is the best way to ensure your fleet remains competitive, but apart from people complaining about compulsory alts in a game where everyone has alts, dont see any reasonable argument against that.

Suggesting that boosts are not a legitimate counter to boosts is also not accurate. It kinda sounds like the unfortunate 'supers can only be countered by more supers' argument. But there is no equivalence since having more boosters gives no additional advantage.


I suggested that boosts are the only legitimate counter.....to boosts. You point with drugs and mods and implants....counters one warfare link......usually a booster will have 5 or so.

So in short a falcon can be hard countered and it takes 3 sets of implants + drugs to counter a booster alt.....


While i reject that boosters are all powerful, on the basis that many people do fine without them, i am on board with weapons/suspect timers to encourage more use of probing. Probes are a hard counter to boosters in safe spots. You dont even need good skills since the booster doesnt know that and will likely withdraw. These small changes will create more content rather than just removing a class of ship from space.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#80 - 2015-07-15 11:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: pushdogg
IbanezLaney wrote:



You just don't like the fact that smaller groups in cheaper ships can fight you if they have boosts available.







there is nothing in eve i "dont like".

they should have boosts available, i didnt say i had a problem with boosts. i just said that there is no hard counter to them.

hence an issue of balance. now if i could shoot your booster alt, and said alt couldnt instantly dock or jump through a gate, we would have something. even though a weapons timer would give only a gang of a decent size the time to get rid of a command ship, it would offer options for removal.

im sure your arguement will be that booster jumping or docking solves the problem, and it does, but with no weapons timer or limited engagement timer, you are forced to deal with gate guns or station guns even if the booster alts fleet aggressed you. with that comes sec status hits, and a suspect timer for you.....

as i stated before.....flawed.

edit: added extra words.....and didnt need them.