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A thought about Boosters:
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Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#401 - 2015-08-06 19:04:25 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Put a fleet of 30 max skilled hulks on a single roid and see if it lasts 10 minutes.

I have no idea, ive never mined. But telling those 30 hulks to move to the next roid would be a lot easier with ISBOXER, would it not?


30 accounts? Lol I don't think anyone has ever held 30 accounts in the history of eve dude. And no, it wouldnt really change anything, you'd still be pressing f1 thirty times every ten minutes as opposed to once.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#402 - 2015-08-06 19:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
What ?!?

So now we have established you dont know what ISBOX is. And probably know less about the mechanics of mining than i do which is saying something. Wonderful :/

And ive been in a corp with someone who had 20+ accounts. He used most of them to ISBOX incursion vanguards in legions and guardians. He also had a lot of cynos all over the place and helped a lot on alliance deployments sometimes running all 5 cynos if we were deploying to curse for example. One time lit a cyno 10km off station for my JF alt which luckily just entered warp to a different station as a pirate tornado landed. Such is the risk with extensive manual multiboxing.

Pretty sure he wasnt close to the game leader in alts, though obviously far more than average.

Its obvious to me that you live in a very sheltered eve bubble. With that in mind i can forgive your ignorance.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#403 - 2015-08-06 19:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
What ?!?

So now we have established you dont know what ISBOX is. And probably know less about the mechanics of mining than i do which is saying something. Wonderful :/

And ive been in a corp with someone who had 20+ accounts. He used most of them to ISBOX incursion vanguards in legions and guardians. He also had a lot of cynos all over the place and helped a lot on alliance deployments sometimes running all 5 cynos if we were deploying to curse for example. One time lit a cyno 10km off station for my JF alt which luckily just entered warp to a different station as a pirate tornado landed. Such is the risk with extensive manual multiboxing.

Pretty sure he wasnt close to the game leader in alts, though obviously far more than average.

Its obvious to me that you live in a very sheltered eve bubble. With that in mind i can forgive your ignorance.


I have done mining before and I've seen ISBOXERS before and we both know damn well isbox is not going to make its benefits noticeable in ******* mining.

You yourself said your buddy was doing INCURSION running which makes a hell of a lot more sense than mining with isbox.

And honestly you can drop the condescending attitude, everything you've said in this thread makes no sense at all. If you're going to run your mouth about the ignorance of others you should know how to make a sensible argument.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#404 - 2015-08-06 19:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Such irony.

Yes, ISBOXer is not useful for mining despite being addressed specifically in the instructions

Oh, and what a coincidence. ISBOXer running 30 miners, HOW CAN THIS BE NO ONE HAS 30 ACCOUNTS lol

Also, cant make titans out of incursion loot.

I really dont think you have any idea whats happening in eve past your nose.

I guess you will be ignoring all this and changing subjects next post? I cant wait.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#405 - 2015-08-06 20:46:14 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Such irony.

Yes, ISBOXer is not useful for mining despite being addressed specifically in the instructions

Oh, and what a coincidence. ISBOXer running 30 miners, HOW CAN THIS BE NO ONE HAS 30 ACCOUNTS lol

Also, cant make titans out of incursion loot.

I really dont think you have any idea whats happening in eve past your nose.

I guess you will be ignoring all this and changing subjects next post? I cant wait.


You CAN make titans out of incursion loot actually. You should do some research on where a lot of minerals actually come from.

And no, having instructions on how to multibox mining doesn't mean that is its best use. Don't act like an ignorant tard. You don't need isboxer to control a mining fleet.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#406 - 2015-08-06 20:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
So to paraphrase you before;

'CCP doesnt endorse alts'
'No one has 30 accounts'
'No one uses ISBOXER for mining'

And now;

'Just because CCP endorses alts does that make it right?'
'Ok, your mate has 20 and obviously theres clear evidence of other people with 30+ accounts'
'Mining isnt the absolute best use of ISBOX' - (though that is just your uninformed opinion and we still have work to do there since until an hour ago you had no idea about ISBOXED mining fleets at all lol)

So at least we can say you are making progress.

What would you like me to explain to you next?
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#407 - 2015-08-07 00:17:26 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
30 accounts? Lol I don't think anyone has ever held 30 accounts in the history of eve dude.
There's an ice system in Genesis where a guy was multi-boxing 30+ accounts including defense ships. I dropped by after the isboxer change and he was still running his fleet.


Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#408 - 2015-08-07 00:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So to paraphrase you before;

'CCP doesnt endorse alts'
'No one has 30 accounts'
'No one uses ISBOXER for mining'

And now;

'Just because CCP endorses alts does that make it right?'
'Ok, your mate has 20 and obviously theres clear evidence of other people with 30+ accounts'
'Mining isnt the absolute best use of ISBOX' - (though that is just your uninformed opinion and we still have work to do there since until an hour ago you had no idea about ISBOXED mining fleets at all lol)

So at least we can say you are making progress.

What would you like me to explain to you next?


Are you going to address the actual point which is that isboxing a mining fleet is completely pointless? Or the actual discussion which is that links alts are p2w? Or are you going to keep acting like a jackass by misquoting repeatedly like a child in a desperate attempt to deflect from the issues that you are clearly flip flopping around on like a politician along with your butt buddy who also has multiple accounts, and are clearly both completely backwards for about 10 pages now?

You are seriously the most childish person I've seen on these forums bar none. Stop being an idiot and get to the issue.

Or how about I do the same thing you're doing:
"You can't make a titan out of incursion loot!" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL omg maybe I should explain stuff more to you cuz you're so dumb obviously KILOLOLOLOLOLOL

******* grow up honestly.

There is 0 need to do isboxing in a mining fleet. 0. You are simply doing it out of laziness even with 30 accounts. Combat is where isboxing is blatant abuse of the system. IE incursions.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#409 - 2015-08-07 00:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Controlling 30 accounts with 1 click per command as opposed to controlling 30 accounts with 30 clicks per command.

Yes, ISBOXing in a mining fleet is totally useless lol Roll

Ive told you that all other things being equal 2 accounts will always be better than one no matter how many people are controlling them. If you could pay to give a single account an undue advantage so that 1 p2w account was better than an non p2w account, that would be p2w.

As it is, your fixation is on alts in general and the person behind the screen rather than the pixels in space, while it should be on the mechanics of boosts like every other sane and informed person.

You seem to be getting very hostile. You have already made much progress and learned a lot from this thread. I would rather you remain calm and carry on learning rather than go down this hostile path you have found yourself on.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#410 - 2015-08-07 10:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Yes it saves you 29 pushes of f1 every 10 minutes WOWWWWWWWW I can see why isbox would be completely necessary for that as opposed to running 30 combat pilots. Yes, no sarcasm here at all, you clearly are right on that front. .................. It's not at all clearly NEEDED in a multiboxing combat role and not needed at all in MINING Roll You must be the guy that came into calmil and asked what was a good calmil corp for mining?

So if you know 2 accounts will always be better than 1 all things being equal than you agree having 2 accounts gives you a combat advantage over 1. That is pay to win, period. You are paying money to improve your combat effectiveness.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#411 - 2015-08-07 11:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
What are you talking about lol. Until yesterday you didnt know ISBOX mining existed and now you are an expert? ISBOX mining has been a thing for many years, and yes, its a LOT easier than manually controlling 30 clients.

Now, when the only way to identify p2w by your definition is by counting the number of accounts and the number of players using them, separate from all game mechanics, you are in danger of calling any game you pay for p2w. You are stretching the definition of p2w to near meaninglessness.

Alts are accepted in EVE so by your definition a larger fleet may or may not be more p2w than a smaller fleet until you count the number of players vs the number of accounts. You may find that the smaller fleet has more alts in it so by your definition that fleet is paying 2 win over the larger fleet. Its just not a rational, or useful standard in a game like EVE.

Now, having 2 accounts definitely gives you an advantage, but p2w, as i have said 1001 times, specifically refers to a situation where you have 1 account and you pay for an advantage directly to that 1 account which someone who did not pay, does not have.

EVE is simply pay 2 play. There are no optional microtransactions on top which give a single player an advantage over another single player. There is only roles, which can be filled by alts or other players and distinguishing between alts and players is a waste of time since they are all in space and all die in exactly the same way.

Some roles are more commonly filled by an alt but you choose which alts are p2w based on your opinion of how much they effect pvp, along with the rest of your reasoning stated above, this leaves you with an unwieldy, inelegant and fuzzy definition of p2w that at first glance is obviously constructed by a crybaby who should really be playing WoW or HTFU.

Alternatively, i will pose another term. Multibox2win. EVE can certainly be that, and thats one of the things that make it an interesting game to play.
Zirashi
Cyclical Destruction
#412 - 2015-08-07 13:49:33 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Alternatively, i will pose another term. Multibox2win. EVE can certainly be that, and thats one of the things that make it an interesting game to play.


Eh, debatable. For example, if I'm traveling blind (as in, not sending a sacrificial lamb through first), I find the experience much more thrilling. Russian Roulette in space. Every jump is preceded by the thought "Will this be the one that kills me?"

If I was to use an alt to scout every gate before taking it with my main, this would be gone. In my case, multiboxing would make the gameplay less interesting for me.
Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#413 - 2015-08-07 13:58:28 UTC
Just wait a second. Boosters are practically drugs, right? How can somebody boost you off-grid? It's like taking an Ibuprofen pill and relieving the headache of everybody around a 10km radius of you.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#414 - 2015-08-07 14:04:56 UTC
Boosts are like boosts, drugs are like drugs, different meta modules are like different meta modules. Why does everyone feel the need to conflate everything?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#415 - 2015-08-07 14:56:52 UTC
Because they believe EVE should be fair. EVE is like life, and life isn't fair. Deal with it.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#416 - 2015-08-07 16:05:43 UTC
This is a conversation about p2w not about how fair the game is
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#417 - 2015-08-07 20:36:19 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
This is a conversation about p2w not about how fair the game is


No, this started off about how unfair having a boosting alt is, that people think it is an exploit, should be brought on gird, and blah blah blah. Then it diverged into having an extra account is P2W.

Bottomline is that EVE is not fair, there is no true solo in an MMO, and certain players need to develop some smarts in the art of PVP.
Zsha
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#418 - 2015-08-07 21:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zsha
Soooooo to sum this thread up...

EvE online would be more enjoyable to most of the player base (especially 1 account holding players) if the ability to boost a fleet or an alt with off grid links were removed.

Alts in my opinion are okay since if a player is noob enough to need 2 accounts and warp an a ECM or logi pilot onto grid to best a 1 account holding player, respect for that player as a gamer goes out of the window and would not get any more fights out of my toon/s (on my 1 account)

Take the plunge CCP. It's the best thing for the game. IMO you are coming across like you would rather milk extra subscriptions than create a more enjoyable game, which is a shame, because this game has such massive potential. The game is fun now, but what it could be..... it blows my mind.

I hardly think there would be a large amount of people unsubbing JUST for removing the ability to boost off grid.

The change has more benefits than not....
Zsha
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#419 - 2015-08-07 22:59:36 UTC
Marlin Spikes wrote:
Too much credit is given to boosting alts. Although they add an edge to the fight, either side can use them. My opinion is that good pilots generally have boosting alts and bad pilots don't. If you want to level the playing field, get another account and train up a boosting alt. Problem fixed.


Shouldn't need 2 accounts to be 100% capable or competitive in 1 ship.
It's a farce.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#420 - 2015-08-08 14:38:28 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:
This is a conversation about p2w not about how fair the game is


No, this started off about how unfair having a boosting alt is, that people think it is an exploit, should be brought on gird, and blah blah blah. Then it diverged into having an extra account is P2W.

Bottomline is that EVE is not fair, there is no true solo in an MMO, and certain players need to develop some smarts in the art of PVP.


This has nothing to do with solo play or how fair the game is, again. Read the thread.