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Warfare & Tactics

 
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A thought about Boosters:

Author
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#361 - 2015-08-05 19:21:57 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
You know what? If you jump into a system, see 2 other people there, one is in a enyo in a small plex, the other is sitting on station undock in a Damnation, and you still decide to go into the small plex to engage the Enyo; then you deserve what you get.

Yeah that's very reassuring... You don't think that all this converges to is people avoiding each other?
Outside of POCO bashes, I forgot the last time I bothered with finding fights. Where I live the only people that undock is people who have a linking alt, or a buddy that has a linking alt.

My corp included.

We do get the odd small gang encounter once in a while, but moment to moment, there is literally nothing to fight other than nano-slicers with snakes and links, or ishkurs with 90% resistances across the board. Some comets here and there, and T3ds.

How does this not make you question the design decisions? If EVE relies so heavily on alts as a norm is it not worrisome?


Sounds like you should move to another area, or maybe you just can't be bothered with actually roaming around for things to shoot. Your "issues" are based on your apathy to not adapt.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#362 - 2015-08-05 19:24:52 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Switch Savage wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.


When your dog is able to play eve online I guess I'll worry about that?

Rofl. You need to grow up. You and a handful of other people roll with ten accounts, the rest of us play the game as it was intended. With one account and two alts who can't be online concurrently. And you are trying SO HARD to rationalize this behavior because you know damn well what you are doing.


Just to confirm from this that you see all secondary accounts in general as unacceptable?


Depends how it is being used. In general you should be playing the game with one account. And it's not something "I think", it's the way the game is actually set up. You have circumvented the system for your own benefit pretty clearly.


Oh I see. This whole discussion is based on how you think the game should be played, and not how it has been designed to be played.

Just another player who wants his playstyle to become the accepted norm.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#363 - 2015-08-05 19:31:26 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:

Now remember your friend here just confirmed my point about you not being able to find someone who wants to fly links. If nobody is using it as it's intended and everyone is using it as a paid second account, what does that tell you?

Alts are INTENDED now. It's no longer a consequence of game design with passive training and passive benefits, now it's DESIGNED to require alts. So if you don't own more than one account, you're doing it wrong.

Somebody is very dishonest about the game to support his "case", and it's not me.

Just out of curiosity how many mmo games do you think are designed to require multiple accounts?


How do you get ALTs are "intended"? Having an ALT is a choice. You can either have an alt, or you can make friends ingame who can help you cyno ships, move ships, provide links, etc.

MMOs (to include EVE) do not require alts, but all the MMOs I have played (STKOR, WoW, & EVE) have them.


I get alts are intended because that's what Crosi SAID. Did you even read the text? LOL
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#364 - 2015-08-05 19:33:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Estella Osoka wrote:


Oh I see. This whole discussion is based on how you think the game should be played, and not how it has been designed to be played.

Just another player who wants his playstyle to become the accepted norm.


LOL

It is DESIGNED to be played with three characters maximum because THAT'S HOW MANY AN ACCOUNT LETS YOU USE

Why do you think there is no fourth fifth or sixth character slot option? No multibox option built in? LOL

I can't even take you seriously any more man for real. At least Crosi has some idea what he is talking about
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#365 - 2015-08-05 19:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
I think they best conclusion you can draw is that eve is designed to be played with 3 characters per account. I mean, drawing arbitrary limits based on your opinion rather than on reality where multiple acconts are common seems a bit spergic to me.

I mean, theres no debate, alts are accepted and nessasary for so many roles in the game.

So here we are after all these posts, the only gripe you can articulate properly applies to alts in general, and alts are perfectly fine in eve.

Sucks to be you.
Arla Sarain
#366 - 2015-08-05 19:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Estella Osoka wrote:

Sounds like you should move to another area, or maybe you just can't be bothered with actually roaming around for things to shoot. Your "issues" are based on your apathy to not adapt.

This whole adapt thing is getting old.

I didn't get into this game thinking the epitome of gameplay would be managing alts and I highly doubt anybody else did/does. It would be wasteful to focus on all this pretty NPE just to have people finally realise what they are playing and flipping the table over.

Not to divert subject of the discussion - just another of countless PoVs on the alt links matter.

Discussing this further will obviously yield no further arguments beyond the parallels drawn to dogs piloting link ships.

Links should get weapon timers to force them of stations and gates, that much is certain.

But it's still tear inducing that a whole class is delegated to "let me log my link alt". Same goes for probing alts. At least hauling has a proven dedicated 3rd party gameplay/community (red-frog,pushx,etc).
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#367 - 2015-08-05 19:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
I think they best conclusion you can draw is that eve is designed to be played with 3 characters per account. I mean, drawing arbitrary limits based on your opinion rather than on reality where multiple acconts are common seems a bit spergic to me.

I mean, theres no debate, alts are accepted and nessasary for so many roles in the game.

So here we are after all these posts, the only gripe you can articulate properly applies to alts in general, and alts are perfectly fine in eve.

Sucks to be you.


Saying you are right doesn't change the facts, unfortunately. And the facts are: each account is given three character slots, and can only log in one character at a time. This is how the game was DESIGNED to be played whether you like it or not.

Notice how you can train a second character with plex? Because the game was DESIGNED for you to be able to train your alt concurrently with your main (as of whichever patch added the feature)

Know what the game ISN'T designed for? Multi boxing.

Sorry, you don't get to be right because you declared yourself right on the Internet forums.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#368 - 2015-08-05 20:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
So by your reasoning, a game designed for multiboxing could only be a single subscription for as many characters as your computer can physically run at once?

Your reasoning is absurd here. One word, businessmodel.

CCP designed the game, CCP allows alts. That should be all that needs to be said, however, i know you are just arguing to save face on this topic and demonstrate that even simpletons can exhibit extraordinary dialectical stamina. So i will elaborate.

The game is designed with multiple accounts in mind as per the drop down account selection each time you load a client, or if you use the launcher, in the launcher. it even remembers the ones you have used previously, as though it expects you to use them again.

If CCP wanted to prevent you using multiple accounts they could. It is not possible, for example, to run multiple trial accounts or even a trail account and a paid for account at the same time. Yet somehow running multiple paid for accounts is possible.

This all suggests deliberate design choices to me.

I could go on but ill save some for my retort to whatever sperg you are about to conjure up
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2015-08-06 02:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Switch Savage wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.


When your dog is able to play eve online I guess I'll worry about that?

Rofl. You need to grow up. You and a handful of other people roll with ten accounts, the rest of us play the game as it was intended. With one account and two alts who can't be online concurrently. And you are trying SO HARD to rationalize this behavior because you know damn well what you are doing.


Just to confirm from this that you see all secondary accounts in general as unacceptable?


Ideally, you'd be able to have as many alts as you like but only log in one client at a time.

So you'd be perfectly able to train different toons towards different objectives or players, but you wouldn't be able to login your own private fleet on command after you bait someone into a fight.

That ship has long sailed and would be financial suicide for CCP at this point. It would be a better game though.

Alts =/= multiboxing. Please do not conflate the two.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#370 - 2015-08-06 02:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:


That ship has long sailed and would be financial suicide for CCP at this point. It would be a better game though.



if it was a better game before the ship sailed, how do you explain the ship sailing?

Ships sail for a reason.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2015-08-06 02:30:48 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
You know what? If you jump into a system, see 2 other people there, one is in a enyo in a small plex, the other is sitting on station undock in a Damnation, and you still decide to go into the small plex to engage the Enyo; then you deserve what you get.

Yeah that's very reassuring... You don't think that all this converges to is people avoiding each other?
Outside of POCO bashes, I forgot the last time I bothered with finding fights. Where I live the only people that undock is people who have a linking alt, or a buddy that has a linking alt.

My corp included.

We do get the odd small gang encounter once in a while, but moment to moment, there is literally nothing to fight other than nano-slicers with snakes and links, or ishkurs with 90% resistances across the board. Some comets here and there, and T3ds.

How does this not make you question the design decisions? If EVE relies so heavily on alts as a norm is it not worrisome?


Sounds like you should move to another area, or maybe you just can't be bothered with actually roaming around for things to shoot. Your "issues" are based on your apathy to not adapt.


The only way to adapt to links is to get your own or blueball the link users. Increase in risk aversion, decrease in content.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#372 - 2015-08-06 02:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
You know what? If you jump into a system, see 2 other people there, one is in a enyo in a small plex, the other is sitting on station undock in a Damnation, and you still decide to go into the small plex to engage the Enyo; then you deserve what you get.

Yeah that's very reassuring... You don't think that all this converges to is people avoiding each other?
Outside of POCO bashes, I forgot the last time I bothered with finding fights. Where I live the only people that undock is people who have a linking alt, or a buddy that has a linking alt.

My corp included.

We do get the odd small gang encounter once in a while, but moment to moment, there is literally nothing to fight other than nano-slicers with snakes and links, or ishkurs with 90% resistances across the board. Some comets here and there, and T3ds.

How does this not make you question the design decisions? If EVE relies so heavily on alts as a norm is it not worrisome?


Sounds like you should move to another area, or maybe you just can't be bothered with actually roaming around for things to shoot. Your "issues" are based on your apathy to not adapt.


The only way to adapt to links is to get your own or blueball the link users. Increase in risk aversion, decrease in content.


Any balance complaint that starts with "as a solo account vs 2 accounts" is invalid by definition.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#373 - 2015-08-06 05:44:06 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Ideally, you'd be able to have as many alts as you like but only log in one client at a time.
Isn't that how it works now? I don't try to run more than one at a time, but my understanding is that you need a second machine (or at least a VM) to run more than one client.

Even if I'm wrong there, CCP can't restrict alts by means of the login. All they can do is make the content too complex to properly control multiple alts at the same time.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#374 - 2015-08-06 11:33:28 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Ideally, you'd be able to have as many alts as you like but only log in one client at a time.
Isn't that how it works now? I don't try to run more than one at a time, but my understanding is that you need a second machine (or at least a VM) to run more than one client.

Even if I'm wrong there, CCP can't restrict alts by means of the login. All they can do is make the content too complex to properly control multiple alts at the same time.


This is the thing. Nobody can stop anyone from buying as many accounts as they want, even in other games. If ccp logs machine id, users can use a cheap second box. If they use ip, users can proxy. And so on.

The difference is that in eve, training is passive. There's a reason most games don't use passive training and this is that reason.
Of course in a game where training an alt takes nothing of your own time (or even wallet if you're rich irl or rich in eve) people will collect alts and want to use them. Which is fine normally, but in eve you actually gain a lot more from multi boxing than you would in other games and in many cases for no extra difficulty (links).

So many people have started multi boxing and among those people it is the "norm" to have several accounts. When the reality is that the system was CLEARLY designed for <4 characters per player, one open at a time. But because it's so easy to alt and provides so much benefit for so little work on the players end, they rationalize that what they are doing is normal. And to anyone with a brain it clearly is not. In fact if ccp were to announce their system is designed for multi boxing I think a huge portion of their players would either unsub or for a few more special snowflakes, they would open their second account. I'm certain ccp has more to lose with multi boxing though.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#375 - 2015-08-06 11:50:19 UTC
Another definition incorrectly used.

Special snowflake implies someone is doing something that is unique in some way. Alts are not rare in eve.

Lets just ignore the clear design choices in the client that are there to support multiple instances running at once.

Im thinking that you are just being wrong on purpose as some sort of forum art experiment.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#376 - 2015-08-06 12:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
So by your reasoning, a game designed for multiboxing could only be a single subscription for as many characters as your computer can physically run at once?

Your reasoning is absurd here. One word, businessmodel.

CCP designed the game, CCP allows alts. That should be all that needs to be said, however, i know you are just arguing to save face on this topic and demonstrate that even simpletons can exhibit extraordinary dialectical stamina. So i will elaborate.

The game is designed with multiple accounts in mind as per the drop down account selection each time you load a client, or if you use the launcher, in the launcher. it even remembers the ones you have used previously, as though it expects you to use them again.

If CCP wanted to prevent you using multiple accounts they could. It is not possible, for example, to run multiple trial accounts or even a trail account and a paid for account at the same time. Yet somehow running multiple paid for accounts is possible.

This all suggests deliberate design choices to me.

I could go on but ill save some for my retort to whatever sperg you are about to conjure up


What proof do you have that the game was designed with multiple accounts in mind? Are all your accounts on the same email with the same login? Pretty sure you are blowing some serious unsustainable smoke at this point. You have ZERO proof of anything you're saying and the system clearly is designed for ONE ACTIVE CHARACTER per user.

And your garbage about trial accounts is completely lies, I've seen it and tried it myself in the past.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#377 - 2015-08-06 12:39:18 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Another definition incorrectly used.

Special snowflake implies someone is doing something that is unique in some way. Alts are not rare in eve.

Lets just ignore the clear design choices in the client that are there to support multiple instances running at once.

Im thinking that you are just being wrong on purpose as some sort of forum art experiment.


The "clear design choices" of only allowing one active character per account. Lol. Looks like you're the one ignoring design choices m8 Roll
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#378 - 2015-08-06 12:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
All my accounts are on the same email yes, and all account names are on a drop down list when i open the client. I dont use the launcher, but im pretty sure they are in a drop down list there too.

As for one active character per account, thats actually a business model decision which should be pretty obvious to anyone who isnt just posting the same terrible arguments on a game forum time and again.


Lets be open though and clear about whats happening here. Im really enjoying your artistic parody of someone who is always wrong on the internet. Its like you have all the details perfectly wrong. all facts ignored, not a single correct statement, not even a rational conclusion in any of your posts.

This is art, bravo!
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#379 - 2015-08-06 13:07:49 UTC
So what you're saying is you're right not because facts actually support anything you're saying, but because you say you're right? Lol.

The email thing is new, you used to need a new email for each account and it was still stupid easy to run several accounts with dummy emails.

Here's the real facts though: the game allows you to run a single character at a time. If you are multi boxing or running several accounts to bypass the restriction, that is not something ccp can control for reasons I have already given. You can ignore this fact until your head explodes but that is how it is.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#380 - 2015-08-06 14:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Been using the same email since 2008.

And actually, the fact is that you can run a single character per account. But there are no design limitations on how many paid accounts you can run.

Certain account usage restrictions do apply. You cannot run more than 1 trial account at once. Or run a trial account while a paid account is running and visa versa.

If the game was intended to be run as a single account, why do i have a drop down account selection box with lots of account names that the game remembers for me so i dont have to type them?