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A thought about Boosters:
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Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#341 - 2015-08-05 15:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:
Switch Savage wrote:
I think the most important thing with link alts is to ensure they are in a situation where they can be killed. Weapon timers would certainly be a good solution to prevent people from boosting on gates/stations and force them into actual space, where they risk being scanned and killed. One of the downsides of muti-boxing a link alt is you are unable to give its D-Scan your full attention throughout a difficult fight.


This won't matter at all, literally. Unless there is a mechanic to stop them from being pre aligned and unable to equip stabilizers the effect is the same as if they were sitting on the station.


NOW you are talking mechanics, FINALLY lol.

Legatus1982 wrote:


Somebody is very dishonest about the game to support his "case", and it's not me.

Just out of curiosity how many mmo games do you think are designed to require multiple accounts?


i dont think you are being dishonest. I just dont think you are very intelligent.

Just out of curiosity, how many mmo games do you think are designed to be anything like eve online?


So by virtue of being "different" now it's ok to require players to purchase multiple accounts.

My favorite part of this thread is your superiority complex and how you don't even try to deny the benefits of paid extra accounts, you just flat out go for the "it's eve online you need more accounts" line.

When you sign up for Google play do you make three accounts so you can multi box your music? Do you have ten iTunes accounts? Do you have multiple wow accounts? Swtor? Aeon?

Is there ANY other place where having multiple accounts is considered the norm?

This is frankly the most ridiculous argument I've ever seen. You're beyond acting like s child at this point. Even among eve online it isn't the norm at all, you've rationalized behavior that IS NOT INTENDED.

What do you think is the reason for having three character slots? And not simply letting you log on to multiple characters on the same account at once? You are so far separated from reality at this point that you can't even be helped.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#342 - 2015-08-05 15:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Why do you keep trying to compare applies to oranges? And then call other people ridiculous?

Here, ill fix this p2w problem for you. I have sold my booster char to my pet dog. From now on he is going to follow me around boosting for me. Sure, it looks the same as it ever did but now it isnt pay 2 win by even your definition.

Problem solved.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#343 - 2015-08-05 15:25:02 UTC
Your dog is going to play eve online for you, hooookay. I can see how that is a reasonable argument for you, really.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#344 - 2015-08-05 15:25:42 UTC
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.
Psymn
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2015-08-05 15:26:47 UTC
WOOF!
Arla Sarain
#346 - 2015-08-05 15:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Estella Osoka wrote:
You know what? If you jump into a system, see 2 other people there, one is in a enyo in a small plex, the other is sitting on station undock in a Damnation, and you still decide to go into the small plex to engage the Enyo; then you deserve what you get.

Yeah that's very reassuring... You don't think that all this converges to is people avoiding each other?
Outside of POCO bashes, I forgot the last time I bothered with finding fights. Where I live the only people that undock is people who have a linking alt, or a buddy that has a linking alt.

My corp included.

We do get the odd small gang encounter once in a while, but moment to moment, there is literally nothing to fight other than nano-slicers with snakes and links, or ishkurs with 90% resistances across the board. Some comets here and there, and T3ds.

How does this not make you question the design decisions? If EVE relies so heavily on alts as a norm is it not worrisome?
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#347 - 2015-08-05 15:37:28 UTC
Curious as well do you consider only RL funds to be pay to win? Or does that extend to alts purchased through entirely in game means.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#348 - 2015-08-05 15:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.


When your dog is able to play eve online I guess I'll worry about that?

Rofl. You need to grow up. You and a handful of other people roll with ten accounts, the rest of us play the game as it was intended. With one account and two alts who can't be online concurrently. And you are trying SO HARD to rationalize this behavior because you know damn well what you are doing.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2015-08-05 15:45:19 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.


When your dog is able to play eve online I guess I'll worry about that?

Rofl. You need to grow up. You and a handful of other people roll with ten accounts, the rest of us play the game as it was intended. With one account and two alts who can't be online concurrently. And you are trying SO HARD to rationalize this behavior because you know damn well what you are doing.


Just to confirm from this that you see all secondary accounts in general as unacceptable?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#350 - 2015-08-05 15:45:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Considering that im fairly confident that the majority of people have alt accounts, and its sanctioned, you might have a little more introspection to do.

Switch Savage wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.


When your dog is able to play eve online I guess I'll worry about that?

Rofl. You need to grow up. You and a handful of other people roll with ten accounts, the rest of us play the game as it was intended. With one account and two alts who can't be online concurrently. And you are trying SO HARD to rationalize this behavior because you know damn well what you are doing.


Just to confirm from this that you see all secondary accounts in general as unacceptable?


That has been his entire argument all along, but he will deny that. And then make the same argument over and over again lol
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#351 - 2015-08-05 15:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Switch Savage wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
If my dog can nullify your main argument then you have a little introspection to do.


When your dog is able to play eve online I guess I'll worry about that?

Rofl. You need to grow up. You and a handful of other people roll with ten accounts, the rest of us play the game as it was intended. With one account and two alts who can't be online concurrently. And you are trying SO HARD to rationalize this behavior because you know damn well what you are doing.


Just to confirm from this that you see all secondary accounts in general as unacceptable?


Depends how it is being used. In general you should be playing the game with one account. And it's not something "I think", it's the way the game is actually set up. You have circumvented the system for your own benefit pretty clearly.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2015-08-05 16:01:58 UTC
Perhaps I just have a different mentality but i enjoy the challenge of engaging someone in a superior situation. I get very little to no satisfaction out of killing a blinged pver who does not know any better.

Understandably there are some link pilots pushing the absolute min max out of their vessel via implants/links and faction modules. This can indeed elevate them to a point where they are unengageable for your average player (10k m/s well flown Garmur for instance). Again this is not something i mind as there is always a way of inflicting damage upon them. Whether that is through stalking their link alt and pouncing at the right time or fitting a suitable ship and going off to hunt them.

Often you are not in a suitable ship for the job when roaming and thus you just ignore them once you have gathered the Intel. Even if links were entirely removed these players would still min-max to a level most would not have the ISK to match. Would this still be pay to win?
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#353 - 2015-08-05 18:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Switch Savage wrote:
Perhaps I just have a different mentality but i enjoy the challenge of engaging someone in a superior situation. I get very little to no satisfaction out of killing a blinged pver who does not know any better.

Understandably there are some link pilots pushing the absolute min max out of their vessel via implants/links and faction modules. This can indeed elevate them to a point where they are unengageable for your average player (10k m/s well flown Garmur for instance). Again this is not something i mind as there is always a way of inflicting damage upon them. Whether that is through stalking their link alt and pouncing at the right time or fitting a suitable ship and going off to hunt them.

Often you are not in a suitable ship for the job when roaming and thus you just ignore them once you have gathered the Intel. Even if links were entirely removed these players would still min-max to a level most would not have the ISK to match. Would this still be pay to win?


No, because you are able to do everything they are doing with one account.

Technically it is if you rmt'd, but that is a problem without a realistic solution. (Or rather, without one ccp will implement)
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#354 - 2015-08-05 18:47:00 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Switch Savage wrote:
Perhaps I just have a different mentality but i enjoy the challenge of engaging someone in a superior situation. I get very little to no satisfaction out of killing a blinged pver who does not know any better.

Understandably there are some link pilots pushing the absolute min max out of their vessel via implants/links and faction modules. This can indeed elevate them to a point where they are unengageable for your average player (10k m/s well flown Garmur for instance). Again this is not something i mind as there is always a way of inflicting damage upon them. Whether that is through stalking their link alt and pouncing at the right time or fitting a suitable ship and going off to hunt them.

Often you are not in a suitable ship for the job when roaming and thus you just ignore them once you have gathered the Intel. Even if links were entirely removed these players would still min-max to a level most would not have the ISK to match. Would this still be pay to win?


No, because you are able to do everything they are doing with one account.

Technically it is if you rmt'd, but that is a problem without a realistic solution.


So fleets are pay 2 win?
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#355 - 2015-08-05 18:48:45 UTC
Serious question: are you on acid?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#356 - 2015-08-05 18:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Legatus1982 wrote:
Serious question: are you on acid?


So now you are trying to push your drugs on me as well as an invalid concept of what eve is supposed to be lol.

Also, the only MT in game are ship skins and clothes. So if people wear fancy clothes that is pay to win?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#357 - 2015-08-05 19:13:11 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Legatus1982 wrote:

Now remember your friend here just confirmed my point about you not being able to find someone who wants to fly links. If nobody is using it as it's intended and everyone is using it as a paid second account, what does that tell you?


For the 1000th time, alts are intended. No one has a JF main, a CYNO main, a scout main, and eyes main either. The location of or who is controlling an alt doesnt dictate whether its in a p2w box or not. That is not what p2w means.

You are again blaming alts which is a fundamental facet of eve online rather than focusing on the mechanics that drive how they are used.

Arla Sarain wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:

There is no difference between a friend or an alt as far as an opponent is concerned. And if the opponnt IS concerned about it, HTFU.

A friend may not be able to compromise his real life in order to come and help you out. A friend may also have different priorities, and may not enjoy being your linking pet.
An alt has no strings attached. It's there when you want it to be, no questions asked, no hassle and no moaning.

The involvement of a linking alt in an encounter is passive, with great effect. The involvement of a prober, alt or friend, cannot be passive in any capacity with no guarantees.

All it comes down to is someone having to take one for the team, sit on the sidelines and babysit the opponents links. That's not very engaging and doubtfully the reason why someone spends his time and money to play this game.

The whole "this is an MMO - socialise and bring a friend" argument would hold merit if it weren't so goddamn agonising to actually play a niche utility role. But it is. Whether the solution is to nerf one side or change the other, that's debatable to the end of days. If playing as a dedicated prober wasn't so empty, I wouldn't peep about links.


Sounds like you need better friends.

Also, ever heard of a probing alt? Also, probing can be passive. Many booster will not uncloak if there is a set of 8 combat probes reasonably near them. Though the changes to warping fleet does seem to present some fundamental problems regarding killing boosters.

if a job is too boring, risky, passive etc, theres an alt for that.

Dont know about anyone else but without alts, eve would be seriously limiting and very boring.


Alts are INTENDED now. It's no longer a consequence of game design with passive training and passive benefits, now it's DESIGNED to require alts. So if you don't own more than one account, you're doing it wrong.

Somebody is very dishonest about the game to support his "case", and it's not me.

Just out of curiosity how many mmo games do you think are designed to require multiple accounts?


How do you get ALTs are "intended"? Having an ALT is a choice. You can either have an alt, or you can make friends ingame who can help you cyno ships, move ships, provide links, etc.

MMOs (to include EVE) do not require alts, but all the MMOs I have played (STKOR, WoW, & EVE) have them.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#358 - 2015-08-05 19:14:10 UTC
Using one account to play the game is now an "invalid concept of what eve is supposed to be" hahaha

Seriously man you're going to be my favorite go to guy for insane quotes
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#359 - 2015-08-05 19:16:01 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
It's fair if I have a friend semi-afk in a link ship fleet up with me to give me boost and it's pay2win if I have my
Aerasia wrote:
[quote=Crosi Wesdo]Pay to win is a specific business model to allow a single player who is willing to pay money to gain an advantage over another single player who doesnt.
Tell me... how does a single player overcome the disadvantage presented by a booster alt? If I'm not allowed to bring a friend, I don't see how alts aren't P2W.


Wow, but you ARE allowed to bring a friend lol...

And you bringing a friend is no different to me bringning an alt, be it on field with extra dps/ewar or off grid with boosts.

With the suggestons made in this thread, you could just bring a friend with probes and deny me the ability to use my boosts. I do realise though, that asking scrubs to make some effort in this game is like kryptonite to them.


Two groups of 100 players line up for a battle. One group has 100 dps ships. The other has 99 dps ships and a paid second account links alt. Who wins?

Now given the fact that links can increase speed which can nullify numbers advantages, it becomes even more obvious in smaller skirmishes.

Now remember your friend here just confirmed my point about you not being able to find someone who wants to fly links. If nobody is using it as it's intended and everyone is using it as a paid second account, what does that tell you?


So the 100 players decided not to bring links? Sounds like they made a bad choice. Out of 100 players, one of them should have been able to fly links; and the fight would be even.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#360 - 2015-08-05 19:17:01 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Using one account to play the game is now an "invalid concept of what eve is supposed to be" hahaha

Seriously man you're going to be my favorite go to guy for insane quotes


Nah, the invalid concept is that alts are pay 2 win and that eve is supposed to be played without alts.