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extend personal kill rights to allow podding. (like GCC does soon)

Author
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-06 19:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: el alasar
as proclaimed in this thread (post #124), the security status penalty for podding people having GCC will be removed soon:
2011.12.06 11:14 CCP Soundwave wrote:
I'm going to make this happen.
Death to pods!

this thread is about the next logical step, to
extend your personal kill rights to allow podding without security status hit.

without this change - they way it currently is - if someone illegally ship-killed you or even podded you, you will still not be allowed to pod him without sec status hit!

reasoning.

  • kill rights can be viewed of as a form of private GCC flag to you.
  • implants are a notable factor in pvp and thus should be also be on the table if you enter the pvp arena. implants have a direct impact on your ability to get revenge by killing the criminal's ship.
  • revenge should not stop at the ship.
  • now that kill mails show implants it should be encouraged to produce more pod goo.

thanks for your time. if you like it, please bump the thread.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2 - 2011-12-06 19:09:37 UTC
Quote:
revenge should not stop at the ship.


All else aside, this is certainly sig worthy.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-12-06 19:53:15 UTC

hm.

Yeah, that's flawed.
Being able to avoid killrights because i'm -5 and raising my sec to -4.9 makes no sense.

That said, i believe that's a minor issue.

The majority of carebears ...
... (haulers that get ganked at gates) ...
... (miners that get ganked at belts) ...
... won't make use of their killrights anyway, simply because they are carebears.


If killrights were extended to the whole corporation instead,
carebears could hire people to join their corp so they can take care of the ganker.


That would work. :)
Jita Alt666
#4 - 2011-12-06 20:22:44 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:


If killrights were extended to the whole corporation instead,
carebears could hire people to join their corp so they can take care of the ganker.

That would work. :)


I like that idea. Would give greater leverage to being in a good empire corp. Would cause griefers to be more selective in who they choose to gank. Would provide a flagging system that was non consensual.
Barakkus
#5 - 2011-12-06 20:31:04 UTC
When I first started I was under the impression kill rights meant you could pod them, I disappointed to find out otherwise.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Harisdrop
Blazing Capsules
Already Replaced.
#6 - 2011-12-06 20:36:30 UTC
To make this even more exciting it should be based on corp-fleet. If I dont want questionable players in my corp but would allow for a price to help me hunt down those that wronged me. That would be a noble cause to promote such wanted desired effect.

I think not only should i be hunting the described wrong doers but also any of their corp for a said given time. YOu know harboring criminals is bad for business.
Autonomous Monster
Paradox Interstellar
#7 - 2011-12-06 20:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Autonomous Monster
Solstice Project wrote:

If killrights were extended to the whole corporation instead,
carebears could hire people to join their corp so they can take care of the ganker.


An awkward way to implement a good idea. Transferable kill rights ( http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Kill_rights_should_be_transferable_%28CSM%29 ) is better.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#8 - 2011-12-06 20:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Make the KRs transferable.

And make them OPENLY transferable.

Meaning that:

1. Carebear gets ganked at belt.
2. Carebear does not have time nor skills to get revenge,.
3. Carebear puts KR up on public BB in station transferring KR to anybody who would pick it up - at the bounty office perhaps if this is a subset of the bounty mechanic.
4. Carebear proceeds to Carebear it up, while the uber leet we-are-all-not-worthy-to-play-the-same-MMOs with PVPers can pick up the KR and put their money where their divine keyboards have been all these years. Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout.
5. Profit?
6. On implementation, return to forums to watch high-sec griefer tears flow like a mighty river.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-12-06 20:54:11 UTC
Harisdrop wrote:
To make this even more exciting it should be based on corp-fleet. If I dont want questionable players in my corp but would allow for a price to help me hunt down those that wronged me. That would be a noble cause to promote such wanted desired effect.

I think not only should i be hunting the described wrong doers but also any of their corp for a said given time. YOu know harboring criminals is bad for business.


That would, in the end, be the same as wardeccing corporations, so it's not an option.
Why ? Because we already have wardecs.



Transferable killrights in this way make no sense,
because every ganker can easily obtain the killright with an alt and just kill himself for even more profit.

That's not something that might happen seldomly,
that would happen each and every time.

Barakkus
#10 - 2011-12-06 22:35:12 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Make the KRs transferable.

And make them OPENLY transferable.

Meaning that:

1. Carebear gets ganked at belt.
2. Carebear does not have time nor skills to get revenge,.
3. Carebear puts KR up on public BB in station transferring KR to anybody who would pick it up - at the bounty office perhaps if this is a subset of the bounty mechanic.
4. Carebear proceeds to Carebear it up, while the uber leet we-are-all-not-worthy-to-play-the-same-MMOs with PVPers can pick up the KR and put their money where their divine keyboards have been all these years. Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout.
5. Profit?
6. On implementation, return to forums to watch high-sec griefer tears flow like a mighty river.



Yeah there was a thread a while back on revamping the bounty system and adding something similar.
Killrights replacing/enhancing the bounty system would be awesome Twisted

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Serene Repose
#11 - 2011-12-06 23:47:41 UTC
Down with implants! UP with PODDING!! Make 'em pay to play.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-07 01:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: el alasar
Autonomous Monster wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

If killrights were extended to the whole corporation instead, carebears could hire people to join their corp so they can take care of the ganker.

An awkward way to implement a good idea. Transferable kill rights ( http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Kill_rights_should_be_transferable_%28CSM%29 ) is better.

CSM transferrable kill rights sound good, but there is a major change to carefully consider: they propose to make the new KR owner/hunter be a legit target towards the hunted!

without this change (making it two-way legit targets), KR could be additionally extended towards a whole corporation.

giving a whole corp KR against 1 target could be cautiously considered, it gave nice n:1 situations, might be considered fair for the cause of revenge. it would facilitate little non-pvp / starter corps to attack skilled pvp players who dared to ever give out KR to noobs or industrialists.

Harisdrop wrote:
To make this even more exciting it should be based on corp-fleet. If I dont want questionable players in my corp but would allow for a price to help me hunt down those that wronged me. That would be a noble cause to promote such wanted desired effect.
I think not only should i be hunting the described wrong doers but also any of their corp for a said given time. YOu know harboring criminals is bad for business.

say you have a KR on some player A being in some corp C. do you now want
a) your whole corp to transitively get kill rights on A? (if so, see comment above)
b) the fleet you are in, consisting of players of any corp, (also not your own) getting KR on A? (this way you could hire mercs to team up with you. it would make hilarious surprises to the KR target. it would need to be that only people on grid with you got rights.)
c) your whole corp getting kill rights on any player in C? (this sounds bad. as Solstice Project also pointed out it would be effectively a temporary corp-war, but one-sided! also not sure that other players from C should be punished being legit targets.)

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-07 01:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: el alasar
Solstice Project wrote:
Transferable killrights in this way make no sense, because every ganker can easily obtain the kill right with an alt and just kill himself for even more profit.

not so fast.
a) if there is bounty involved on KR target, currently, without a fix to the bounty sytem, you can collect bounty yourself in ANY way. with or without transferrable KR. no difference.
b) with or without bounty, a poor highsec bear might know some people he trusts and could give away the KR to them, so they get legal (and one-sided) targets in highsec without being at war. if bounty was not collected by KR target himself, it might be a bonus for the delegate hunters.
c) selling KR currently never works, without a fix to the bounty sytem - i agree there completely!
1. no bounty: nobody would pay for KR (or buy to speculate bounty is going to rise??)
2. bounty available
2.1. sell publicly: alt would buy if contract cheaper than bounty, collect himself. nobody else would buy otherwise.
2.2. sell privately: still carebear's "friends" could still make a deal to split the open bounty minus KR fee between them

if the bounty hunting system was made unexploitable transferable KR would make very much sense!

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Perhaps some kind of special bounty system enacted whereby the KR is picked up with a fee attached such that on killing the offending player, the in-game divine creature (the PVPer) gets some kind of payout.

the very core property, that the bounty hunting system is truely p-v-p, is the reason it can easily be exploited. the only solution i know of that has been proposed so far is, that there always has to be a cost on one side to be allowed to pay out money to the other side. any extra outside money injection (e.g. like ratting or pve does) will open room to exploitation.

there were a few good threads on reforms to the bounty system out there, and i have some more ideas myself, i think i will post a best-of-breed version for you to bash in a few days. several things needed to be changed at one time - and this is probably the reason CCP has not touched it yet - otherwise it will cause "flaws", heave imbalances or enable griefing...

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

BigWaBastage
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#14 - 2011-12-08 03:00:29 UTC
Bump
I like it, not sure about transfering the kill rights, but the corp kill rights is good, and at the very least, the sec status hits should be taken away with kill rights. I think the name says it all, "Kill Rights"
Sanguine Belroth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-12-08 03:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sanguine Belroth
Double post...
Sanguine Belroth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-08 03:26:18 UTC
I there is a missed opportunity here.

If killrights are transferable, you would be able to sell them.

I am sure, in the vast space of eve. There are people who would be keen to gank the gankers.

You probably wouldn't get much for them - except if it was some pirate who was known to rock about in a deadspace Tengu.
But I am sure that throwing down a few million ISK, for a collection of griefers, and then roaming around high sec - would be a great evening for a certain type of person.

So the person selling the killrights doesn't make alot of money.
But someone might end up killing the person who killed you. This is better than the current situation.

It would also make things much tougher on Gankers. Who can sit afk in sensor boosted paper thing Tempests, while they wait for someone to spot something juicy coming down the pipe. If their killrights didn't belong to some hauler alt. They would have to be alert for a Talos landing on top of them, and ripping them a new one.

Infact gankers might buy up their own kill rights - so that people can't gank them back. Put in place a similar contract auction system, and let the market figure it out. I am confident it would work.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-12-08 05:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
instead of people asking to extend killrights to the corp.

Why not add the ability for said Hauler to assign somebody or sell the killright? Or give him to ability to hire somebody to "take care" of that killright for the hauler? A contract Job if you will.

That cold open a great new proffession in eve.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#18 - 2011-12-08 06:43:56 UTC
The value of transferable killrights is this:

We see threads in the forums from experienced gankers describing how to "rat up" their security status. Those who do not go minus 5 can maintain a life of ganking easily by doing their ratting in high sec. They can even run LVL 4 missions across two factions (where one enemy in one mission is one pirate faction, another mission in a nearby system is another faction) and that registers when they change systems. So they can milk several level 4 missions for days ratting up good sec status.

This makes the security status hit for suicide ganking a joke.

If they could be hunted in high sec while trying to do this - and possible lowsec too since the KR goes from the hands of a carebear to someone who does not mind hunting in lowsec - this would make ratting up more difficult. This would not affect those who bot in null and only come to high sec to gank, but it would make life harder for those who are not set up in 0.0 and can take refuge there to rat up.

It would also promote PVP - and suicide gankers say they are all about PVP, and PVP is what EvE is all about, and everybody needs to HTFU. So changes in KR and transfers would give them a chance to put their ISK where their keyboards have been all these years.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
#19 - 2011-12-08 07:32:24 UTC
lol make kill rights for pod kills...

Podded a dude yesterday in HS... no KR's LOL!!!!

Idk I found it funny... pop ship... KR's
Pop pod... nothing.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-12-08 09:18:49 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The value of transferable killrights is this:

We see threads in the forums from experienced gankers describing how to "rat up" their security status. Those who do not go minus 5 can maintain a life of ganking easily by doing their ratting in high sec. They can even run LVL 4 missions across two factions (where one enemy in one mission is one pirate faction, another mission in a nearby system is another faction) and that registers when they change systems. So they can milk several level 4 missions for days ratting up good sec status.

This makes the security status hit for suicide ganking a joke.

If they could be hunted in high sec while trying to do this - and possible lowsec too since the KR goes from the hands of a carebear to someone who does not mind hunting in lowsec - this would make ratting up more difficult. This would not affect those who bot in null and only come to high sec to gank, but it would make life harder for those who are not set up in 0.0 and can take refuge there to rat up.

It would also promote PVP - and suicide gankers say they are all about PVP, and PVP is what EvE is all about, and everybody needs to HTFU. So changes in KR and transfers would give them a chance to put their ISK where their keyboards have been all these years.




The security status hit is a joke any way,
because gankers do not need to care about their sec status.

Being -5 or lower does not keep them from doing what they are doing,
it doesn't even make it harder for them to do it.

The only thing it really changes is, that they can be shot at,
which doesn't really help those who get shot by them.
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