EVE General Discussion

"versus" implies opposition, whether both parties are actively fighting or not. Only if CCP finally took my advice and removed miners from counting as players would it count as PvP.

If you are acting in opposition to another player, especially in combat, it is a PvP activity. Rolling into someone's DED site, killing the faction spawn and taking their loot is PvP, doing it by yourself is not, there is no opposition present.

Then by your very definition a Miner is a PVPer as soon as they go and sell their goods on the market, or mine someone elses asteroid, or use an OGB for links..

I'm sure there is no chance that any counter discussion will shift your ground, so it's probably not worth trying. I'm just stupid.

Dropping out of talking about the game again for a second.

The reason I subsequently used the ISO 31000 definition of risk is because that is the definition agreed internationally within the risk management profession. That carries a lot of significance with it, whether any of us want to believe it or not and it's the standard definition that many national standards then adopt.

In terms of evaluating likelihood/probability/potential (or whatever term for chance of occurrence you want to use), where it is measured quantitatively, it is often on a probability scale from 0 to 1 and both the absence of likelihood (0 probability) and certainty of likelihood (1 probability) are important to include (I just chose quantitative there because it is easier to demonstrate than qualitative statements).

From an engineering perspective for example, if the probability of an occurrence is 1, that is something an engineer wants to know if they are considering risk associated with something.

So the certainty of something happening is absolutely part of managing risk and is often a trigger for some pretty extreme measures.

Risk management doesn't apply the concept that just because something is certain, we ignore it. It's still a risk.

On the issue of harm being common understanding, that is in fact a limited use of risk management. It's a common use for risk management, but not the common understanding within the risk management profession. The risk management framework acknowledges that it can be used every bit as much to maximise a benefit as to minimise a harm (hazard/loss/etc.), but talking to a wall is stupid, so I'll stop my stupidity and give up trying to talk in a professional sense.

Back to stupid arguments where we are all in agreement anyway.

Risk mitigation is your responsibility, not CCPs.
If this is true then a major contributing factor is the apathy of people who could interfere but don't, despite game mechanics allowing them to.

Why would you expect a great many players would interfere? While the tagline says there are infinite possibilities, that's not to say that EVE isn't subject to as many static elements as any themepark MMORPG. You could say that a great many players could do Molten Core in WoW the old fashioned way. Indeed, some few do. But the common refrain is "Why would you? The game gives you no reason to do so."

And indeed, few players will stop a suicide gank in progress. Not because they can't, but because EVE is built to actively discourage them from doing so. A taken target is immediately nearly worthless for another uninvolved player to engage. They can call CONCORDs wrath down on themselves as well. They could also, it should be noted, lose their own ship, especially if they're no better skilled and armed than the target. EVE is so designed that people have no reason to help and every reason to remain uninvolved.

And despite what we may assume it is possible for players to do, you can largely bet on almost all pilots operating in the direction of their own self interest. CCP could have designed plenty of things differently, even by omission, that would have made it otherwise. They didn't. Likely, they assumed it would be an impetus to get into PVP and nullsec by even making hisec dangerous, but it isn't presently operating that way with the current lay of the land.

Such is life in EVE. Infinite possibility, and all too predictable because we, the players, are rarely as surprising as we want to be.

Then by your very definition a Miner is a PVPer

Also, wanted to quote this in case you try and claim later that you are not a DB or arse when clearly your opinion of your fellow players screams otherwise.

As a forensic financial auditor I laugh at your definition in terms of risk management. But here, let's have the industry tell you.

I invite all players to open their maps and view a few statistics. Go to the "E" at the top of your in-game toolbar. Click on the map icon without the Beta symbol. On the stars tab on the World map window, click on statistics. ...