These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Alliance tournament and the rules to participate.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Archeras Umangiar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#21 - 2015-06-15 11:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Archeras Umangiar
Auto Maat wrote:
As a team that has been left out I'm a bit disappointed about having only 4 spots for silent auction.

With this kind of setup of the tournament I feel like I have to do it like Pandemic Legion does:

Make alliances with alts to better my chances to get in.

Is the wish of the tournament to have like an all Pandemic Legion alt-parade?

Pandemic Legion is in
Waffles is in (an alliance controlled by pandemic legion)
Pademic Horde is in (an alliance controlled by pandemic legion)
Nihilists Social Club is in (an alliance of pandemic legion alts)

All the while, other entities have to enter different alliances as one "because they're controlled by 1 entity". Like Gorgon Empire/Spawn.

The current random draw just makes everyone and their grandmother apply.

So even as a team if you're serious about AT you have to have the luck of the draw, and you see team that do it for ***** and giggles getting places.

Extremely frustrating.

If you wanted a better tournament you would give the top 16 places and then do an open auction for all the other places.




to clear this out

Nihilists social club IS NOT a PL alt alliance; no idea where you have that from, but i had to laugh
CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2015-06-15 12:05:41 UTC
For anyone that has not be able to find the video of the actual draw taking place, you can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5EZYFIIeJw

We will likely make further changes to the team selection process for the next Alliance Tournament, but the current process stands for this year. (I'll also remember to print bigger pieces of paper so you can see the team names properly next time).

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
Ilan Bashar
Fat Kitty Inc.
#23 - 2015-06-15 16:43:38 UTC
Hello CCP,

thank you for your video. I will comment on the video itself later.
I think a process can be consided as a black box and be judged by the result.

The result is that some enteties have multiple teams. This is not what Alliance Tournament means to me personally, to me one enity has one team and not three official ones and whoknows how many alt teams. Eve is about winning, not fair competition. I thought AT was an attempt to promote EvE through esports, so fair competition a certain degree (aside spying ect.). I do acklowledge CCPs position that it is not - and exploiting the rules to the max is fair game. I hope CCP is aware that this disqualifies AT as an esports event.

60 of 64 teams came into the competition with no effort whatsoever, be it spacepew or pay money
Only four places are open for teams not being favoured or lucky enough.

Looking at the list of former serious contenders who will not be able to participate and the above explained situation, I conclude that there is enough evidence to say that :
The qualification process has delivered a very bad result.
I think it is simply a very bad job to:
*define and execute a new/modified process without review to spot the process flaws beforehand
*achnowledge the obvious flaws but refuse to act on them
*not to react on some stretching and bending the rules

So now to your video:
It is for me just the proof of my acusation of very unreflected and poor work.
I can make the following claims (which I do not even mean serious!): Not all the names had been put into the box. The video was simply shoot several times until the result suited you. Oh yeah I dont trust you and that surprises you.. only if you did not think enough beforehand.

Please specify the correct contact in customer service where I can complain about the bad work and discuss the consequences I draw from it.

CCP Logibro wrote:
...
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#24 - 2015-06-15 18:55:49 UTC
I wonder if it occurs to anyone that part of the reason 90 teams entered this year's tournament is BECAUSE of the fact that the majority of the spots would be drawn randomly, instead of like prior years where half of the spots were random draw and half were blind auction?

Just a thought ...

Personally, I rather liked this setup because there was better odds of getting drawn. However, I detest the blind auction system, just detest it. I've ranted about it before and I've already exceeded my monthly wall-of-texts quota, so I won't rant about it here except to say if the tournament is going to continue to have an auction element, it really, really needs to be an open and/or live auction, with opportunities to up your bid.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
KleinerHai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-06-15 19:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: KleinerHai
CCP Logibro wrote:
For anyone that has not be able to find the video of the actual draw taking place, you can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5EZYFIIeJw

We will likely make further changes to the team selection process for the next Alliance Tournament, but the current process stands for this year. (I'll also remember to print bigger pieces of paper so you can see the team names properly next time).


Thanks for the acknowledgement that the process this year was flawed!
I do not believe the drawing process is faked but if you print bigger names, the people pulling out the names and looking into the box before pulling might even see the name they pull better!
A pity you actually only find out once the damage is done.
You could have asked any serious player of EVE and he would have pointed out the obvious.
The point is the drawing is not bulletproof.

Here an easy process to make it more clear:

1) Before the drawing all participating alliances are officially named and are give a number.
2) You play Lotto? Well you know how to get out the numbers? (Bingo does it too :).
3) You announce upfront the drawing and you do it live.

Then you immediately notice that you leave a barely 4 slots and see the flaw upfront! Why increase the numbers drawn randomly rather than leave more spots for the silent auction?

I do not want to sound rude but honestly did you think this process through and talked it with some of you collegues before taking this decision?

So I stay frustrated with the current result and have not locked in any of my char for the last 3 days, just because I am frustrated how you treat players unfairly!

The ones which will make the draw will have paid a very high price join the tournament!

You know the solution to this problem: THERE IS NONE, you have screwed it up, unless you have the courage to change the rules NOW. (Hope is the last to die).

Regards,
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#26 - 2015-06-15 23:16:51 UTC
Ilan Bashar wrote:
The result is that some enteties have multiple teams.

You know, saying something over and over doesn't make it true. It's not like we are running a religion here.
General Vachot
The Vendunari
End of Life
#27 - 2015-06-16 07:26:04 UTC
The most annoying thing about this thread is that you are trying to make an argument about something very important which stems back to how CCP views the Alliance tournament and their brand. Its just that you are screwing it up so badly with silly comments like this

"The ones which will make the draw will have paid a very high price join the tournament!"

We got in via the random draw. We paid like everyone else just 5 plex and I sat watching the o7 program waiting nervously for our name and sweating more as time went and our name never came out until very near the end.

Stick to your serious argument that the random draw is not the best solution and the silent auction is eve worse than the random draw because not all space rich alliances are even the best at AT style PVP.

To see things go back to totally silent auction would be terrible. In the end CCP needs to take the AT seriously if it wants to be a premier event and support their staff supporting the tournement.

Then you might be able to see something like the top 16 get seeded then the rest of the positions played for in some preliminary pvp method.

Sivor Detmen
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#28 - 2015-06-16 08:04:26 UTC
General Vachot wrote:
The most annoying thing about this thread is that you are trying to make an argument about something very important which stems back to how CCP views the Alliance tournament and their brand. Its just that you are screwing it up so badly with silly comments like this

"The ones which will make the draw will have paid a very high price join the tournament!"

We got in via the random draw. We paid like everyone else just 5 plex and I sat watching the o7 program waiting nervously for our name and sweating more as time went and our name never came out until very near the end.

Stick to your serious argument that the random draw is not the best solution and the silent auction is eve worse than the random draw because not all space rich alliances are even the best at AT style PVP.

To see things go back to totally silent auction would be terrible. In the end CCP needs to take the AT seriously if it wants to be a premier event and support their staff supporting the tournement.

Then you might be able to see something like the top 16 get seeded then the rest of the positions played for in some preliminary pvp method.





Couldn't agree more.
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#29 - 2015-06-16 15:11:34 UTC
General Vachot wrote:
Stick to your serious argument that the random draw is not the best solution and the silent auction is eve worse than the random draw because not all space rich alliances are even the best at AT style PVP.

To be fair, participation in the AT was never about being good at arena pvp. While most of us enjoy that side of it, seeing some of the grudge matches that spill over from TQ politics can be a lot of fun too.
Mr Spaxi
#30 - 2015-06-16 16:00:07 UTC
I thought that tears were reserved for carebears, but it seems like PvPers cry as well. You people should be ashamed, if you wanted to be in the AT that desperately you should've farmed enough ISK to bid.
#1 You failed to be in top 16 teams last year so you didn't secure any spot;
#2 You weren't lucky enough to be drawn;
#3 You failed to collect ISK in case all else fails.

Your fault, not CCPs. Stop wasting forum space with your tears.
KleinerHai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-06-16 18:22:01 UTC
Well the result is there and that is all that counts.

74 plexes = 68 BLN ISK = 1000 EUR.

Nice entry.

We are not in and yes I can say the method used is the combination of 2 systems which are not good either of them.

Some very good names are missing and all the effort we have put in participating is lost.

Good job CCP, well done and thanks for the fishes.
JSSix
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#32 - 2015-06-16 18:32:05 UTC
The Tears.... :3
theelusiveyoda
Death Troopers
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#33 - 2015-06-16 19:46:14 UTC
GRRR ITS A CONSPIRACY ALL THOSE ALLIANCES CCP PICKED ARE PANDEMIC LEGION ALT ALLIANCES.

So your complaining you werent picked in a random draw, heres a hint, its RANDOM.
I bet CCP put in only alliances that they like, im sure its the system trying to keep you down.

Also how you plan to participate in the alliance tournament while in a npc corp is beyond any reasoning.
General Vachot
The Vendunari
End of Life
#34 - 2015-06-16 23:31:14 UTC
Lucas - yeah fair point I was not meaning that grudge matches were not valid as well.

Quote:
To be fair, participation in the AT was never about being good at arena pvp. While most of us enjoy that side of it, seeing some of the grudge matches that spill over from TQ politics can be a lot of fun too.
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#35 - 2015-06-17 06:07:54 UTC
PLuminati.

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
KleinerHai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-06-17 13:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: KleinerHai
Mr Spaxi wrote:
I thought that tears were reserved for carebears, but it seems like PvPers cry as well. You people should be ashamed, if you wanted to be in the AT that desperately you should've farmed enough ISK to bid.
#1 You failed to be in top 16 teams last year so you didn't secure any spot;
#2 You weren't lucky enough to be drawn;
#3 You failed to collect ISK in case all else fails.

Your fault, not CCPs. Stop wasting forum space with your tears.


Ok just to put this straight about tears and whining:

I have 3 accounts on Eve and pay each year 390 EUR for playing this game, for 6 years already.
So this makes me a customer of CCP and CCP my "service provider".
They provide a game to all players and all players pay the same price, thus the service provided to all players should be the same. I cannot remember having read in the general rules that some players need to pay special price for specific service or access to some parts of the game. I might be wrong and am happy to be pointed to the general conditions showing me this.

The tournament is part of the service provided by CCP and I do not understand why some players :

- either are randomly chosen to stay outside of this part of the game
- Need to pay a higher price for the same service

This is not whining or crying, basically it is a complaint to the customer service of CCP.

They do not provide me the service I am paying for and they do not react on their customer complaints adequately, well then it is a pity but they will loose customers. This is not a threat either, it is a logical consequence. Of course Eve has many many aspects and I appreciate most of them but the tournemant has become over the years a motivating factor for me to play this game and if I cannot play that, well then I will not pay for it. I also know that I am not the only one to think this way and it would be a pity to loose those long term players who make a lot of the contents for other players. I specifically think here about the FC's and Team Captains who motivated whole teams over months and weeks and will just sit out and lots of contents being lost.

CCP should be happy to have customers which give them the direct feedback about their service with sound arguments, they know how difficult it is to attract new players and how difficult it is to get lost players back to the game.

If CCP makes rules which do not make sense it is not the players' fault as you just try to point out above so please stop wasting forum space with your vain arguments.

Cheers,
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#37 - 2015-06-17 15:43:19 UTC
Ignoring the obvious sock-puppet trolling in this, let's go with this argument and hyperbole it from the other end:
KleinerHai wrote:
They provide a game to all players and all players pay the same price, thus the service provided to all players should be the same. I cannot remember having read in the general rules that some players need to pay special price for specific service or access to some parts of the game. I might be wrong and am happy to be pointed to the general conditions showing me this.

The tournament is part of the service provided by CCP and I do not understand why some players :

- either are randomly chosen to stay outside of this part of the game
- Need to pay a higher price for the same service

With that logic, the 19 member alliance you represent simply shouldn't have a team in because that would be providing the service to the least amount of players in the first place. You are not chosen randomly, but a completely utilitarian approach dictates that there are too few of you to even recognise. Maybe if you got better at recruiting this wouldn't be an issue next year?
KleinerHai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-06-17 18:25:22 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Ignoring the obvious sock-puppet trolling in this, let's go with this argument and hyperbole it from the other end:
KleinerHai wrote:
They provide a game to all players and all players pay the same price, thus the service provided to all players should be the same. I cannot remember having read in the general rules that some players need to pay special price for specific service or access to some parts of the game. I might be wrong and am happy to be pointed to the general conditions showing me this.

The tournament is part of the service provided by CCP and I do not understand why some players :

- either are randomly chosen to stay outside of this part of the game
- Need to pay a higher price for the same service

With that logic, the 19 member alliance you represent simply shouldn't have a team in because that would be providing the service to the least amount of players in the first place. You are not chosen randomly, but a completely utilitarian approach dictates that there are too few of you to even recognise. Maybe if you got better at recruiting this wouldn't be an issue next year?


The 19 member alliance I represent? I do not understand what you mean? I do not represent a 19 member alliance.
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#39 - 2015-06-17 21:37:18 UTC
KleinerHai wrote:
The 19 member alliance I represent? I do not understand what you mean? I do not represent a 19 member alliance.

Well, if you would like to post with your main that is fine too, we are all friends here.
Mr Spaxi
#40 - 2015-06-18 09:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Spaxi
KleinerHai wrote:
Mr Spaxi wrote:
I thought that tears were reserved for carebears, but it seems like PvPers cry as well. You people should be ashamed, if you wanted to be in the AT that desperately you should've farmed enough ISK to bid.
#1 You failed to be in top 16 teams last year so you didn't secure any spot;
#2 You weren't lucky enough to be drawn;
#3 You failed to collect ISK in case all else fails.

Your fault, not CCPs. Stop wasting forum space with your tears.


Ok just to put this straight about tears and whining:

I have 3 accounts on Eve and pay each year 390 EUR for playing this game, for 6 years already.
So this makes me a customer of CCP and CCP my "service provider".
They provide a game to all players and all players pay the same price, thus the service provided to all players should be the same. I cannot remember having read in the general rules that some players need to pay special price for specific service or access to some parts of the game. I might be wrong and am happy to be pointed to the general conditions showing me this.

The tournament is part of the service provided by CCP and I do not understand why some players :

- either are randomly chosen to stay outside of this part of the game
- Need to pay a higher price for the same service

This is not whining or crying, basically it is a complaint to the customer service of CCP.

They do not provide me the service I am paying for and they do not react on their customer complaints adequately, well then it is a pity but they will loose customers. This is not a threat either, it is a logical consequence. Of course Eve has many many aspects and I appreciate most of them but the tournemant has become over the years a motivating factor for me to play this game and if I cannot play that, well then I will not pay for it. I also know that I am not the only one to think this way and it would be a pity to loose those long term players who make a lot of the contents for other players. I specifically think here about the FC's and Team Captains who motivated whole teams over months and weeks and will just sit out and lots of contents being lost.

CCP should be happy to have customers which give them the direct feedback about their service with sound arguments, they know how difficult it is to attract new players and how difficult it is to get lost players back to the game.

If CCP makes rules which do not make sense it is not the players' fault as you just try to point out above so please stop wasting forum space with your vain arguments.

Cheers,


Using the same logic, is CCP to blame for you not participating in... let's say Capital warfare part of the game because you do not have the SP to use it? CCP gives you the tools to do anything in the game, and you had those tools at your disposal - AT is such a thing, but instead of SP you need to be either a very good team which was ranked 16 or lower in the previous one, you need to have luck (should we all blame CCP for an Officer rat not dropping the module we want because it's chance based?) or at least gather a certain amount of ISK to invest if all else fails. Any alliance that was serious about AT this year did NOT count on the random draw itself. Hell, even the Bastards which got in gathered a couple dozen PLEX to put in silent if random draw fails, of course - the amount of PLEX we would invest is equal to our view of AT value. Nothing wrong about that. You had the time to prepare, you were given THE SAME chance as anyone else to participate. You weren't good enough last year, you weren't lucky and you failed to gather a back-up amount of ISK if your luck fails you. The way entries worked for this year were known ahead, and it's your fault for not preparing accordingly. Those were the rules this year, for the next year CCP might change something. Games and devs evolve and as they do, we the players do as well.
Previous page123Next page