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Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2015-06-12 18:09:47 UTC
Kelron Renalard wrote:
Commander Spurty wrote:
You can't seriously believe this game is focused on pvp AND be part of one of the largest care bear coalitions in game.

If PVP was the focus, you wouldn't have alliances, let alone standings..


What?

Carebears in 0.0 and lowsec are doing constantly PVP. They use the intel so nobody can catch them, they camp wormholes so nobody can surprise them, they hide behind a POS-shield so nobody can kill them. Carebearing involves a huge load of PVP-activities. Yes, the target is to avoid fights (You probably should say ganks. A carebear against a hunter is not really a fight) but it is still PVP.

And most people in Highsec don't get this because they don't need to do this kind of PVP. CONCORD protects theirs ass and when they have a war they leave the game for a week or play with an alt.

They don't need to scout. 90% of the people don't want or can't kill them.
They don't need to hide. 90% of the people don't want or can't kill them.

The cliff between Lowsec / 0.0 and highsec is simply to steep.

And you probably shouldn't shout to loud. Your last kill was a Reaper in highsec one month ago.

Oh. And i think the best solution for more content would be the reduction of highsec to 25-50 systems. The limitation of missions in highsec to lvl 1 - lvl 3 and the halving of empire controlled regions. Highsec should be overcrowded and with limited ressources. Not a paradise with huge income and no risk.

Yeah and the end of casual play as we know it. Players would be forced to join null alliances or risk going broke from the endless slaughter.

I offer an alternative: Go back to the way EVE was around 2006-2007. That was some of the best gameplay ever. We can keep the new skins and graphic updates though.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#142 - 2015-06-12 19:11:24 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Kelron Renalard wrote:
Commander Spurty wrote:
You can't seriously believe this game is focused on pvp AND be part of one of the largest care bear coalitions in game.

If PVP was the focus, you wouldn't have alliances, let alone standings..


What?

Carebears in 0.0 and lowsec are doing constantly PVP. They use the intel so nobody can catch them, they camp wormholes so nobody can surprise them, they hide behind a POS-shield so nobody can kill them. Carebearing involves a huge load of PVP-activities. Yes, the target is to avoid fights (You probably should say ganks. A carebear against a hunter is not really a fight) but it is still PVP.

And most people in Highsec don't get this because they don't need to do this kind of PVP. CONCORD protects theirs ass and when they have a war they leave the game for a week or play with an alt.

They don't need to scout. 90% of the people don't want or can't kill them.
They don't need to hide. 90% of the people don't want or can't kill them.

The cliff between Lowsec / 0.0 and highsec is simply to steep.

And you probably shouldn't shout to loud. Your last kill was a Reaper in highsec one month ago.

Oh. And i think the best solution for more content would be the reduction of highsec to 25-50 systems. The limitation of missions in highsec to lvl 1 - lvl 3 and the halving of empire controlled regions. Highsec should be overcrowded and with limited ressources. Not a paradise with huge income and no risk.

Yeah and the end of casual play as we know it. Players would be forced to join null alliances or risk going broke from the endless slaughter.

I offer an alternative: Go back to the way EVE was around 2006-2007. That was some of the best gameplay ever. We can keep the new skins and graphic updates though.


if you haven't noticed that's what all their "idea's, suggestions, manipulations, patch changes" have been about the CSM is forcing its hand and pretty much trying to force everyone into joining their coalitions and alliances. they want to kill high sec so everyone is forced to play with them.

they want to force you go to null sec
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2015-06-12 19:42:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
again: not "moved" but created alt to play there. Move is when you take your stuff here and place it there. It is completely different thing.

…and not really relevant to the question at hand.

Again, the “highsec majority” argument is that ⅔ of the players (often misquoted as ⅘) would rather leave than see [change X] happen to highsec, and that the highsec players must be catered to — often at the expense of the non-highseccers. The counter-argument to this is that the ⅔ number wrong because it includes a lot of people, easily half, that have already proven that they can take it or leave it. They go where the opportunity exists. If the aforementioned [change X] happens, they will not leave, as the “highsec majority” wants them to, but will rather shift their focus.

again.
- Not 'move' and not 'leave'. It is 'be here and be there'.
- Not 'non-highseccers' but 'people with alts in high-sec and in 0.0'.

Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Let's say i create alt and place it in Brave Newbies. Does it make me 0.0-seccers? Nope. I like high-sec and i never completely leave it.
…and that's fine. But it means that you are willing to live in null. You are able to adapt to a change to highsec rather than just quit outright. You prove the notion that “highseccers” will all leave if something changes in highsec wrong, by default.

Again.
- I have said nothing about 'live in null'. I have just said that my alt is in 0.0.
- I have said nothing about my reasons to have alt in 0.0.
You put too much into my words here. I gave example with EveO and CS for this particular reason: to show that 'having alts' does not mean 'moving' or 'leaving'.
To make it more 'real': i liked big battles of 0.0. But i don't like anything about living in 0.0. Lived there, dislike it. So i would happily roam there with my alt having 'normal' life of high-seccers with my main.

Quote:
No one argues about making null viable. It's just most ideas makes high-sec worse than it is now. That's what people are arguing against.
That's the problem: a lot of making null viable hinges on making highsec worse, because there are limits to how much you can improve something without making it completely broken.... High provides a universal benchmark that everything else has to be compared against — if the margins of improvement for other areas are too small, then the only way to resolve the issue is to increase those margins. That means making highsec worse.

And highsec has plenty of room for being made worse without hurting the game to any extent. That's where the other part of argument kicks in: even among the remaining ⅓ “true highseccers”, there is no monolithic idea that highsec must remain untouched, so the “highsec majority” argument doesn't even apply properly to this minority.
[/quote]
That's what i agree with. And all i want to say that not only 'people with alt in 0.0' should be taken into consideration when you change the game.
It does not matter that i have home and only use my office for making money. If you make office worse enough i can leave completely: into new home and office (other country/other city).

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#144 - 2015-06-12 20:25:06 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:
Was in a discussion with some previous and current eve players i know. Most of them has quit, or is about to quit, mostly due to lack of content.

It made me think abit... They are in some ways correct, EVE hasnt come up with New content that has incouraged others to reactivate their accounts or keep playing. There is no New content that makes me, or those i spoke with, wanna spend more time on EVE.
And i do see that thru players i know ingame, keeps reducing their time on EVE, mainly it gives them no more "happy-juice" to keep playing.


So is it that EVE dont gives us more content, or is it me and those that over time has come to the conclusion that EVE actually has become borring?


Also, has EVE more and more been swinging into being more and more a game for mainly pvp players? A friend of mine, was a big time manufacturer and he said, he dont have the time to keep repeating the same actions over and over again, it gave him no more pleasure.


Something is for sure wrong, cuz it is not just me....

Would appreciate some pro's and con's on this.




the only thing boring is people like you, you got no story you make no story, thats the issue... you just sit there and want to be entertained



Relevant.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#145 - 2015-06-12 22:38:06 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
again.
- Not 'move' and not 'leave'. It is 'be here and be there'.
- Not 'non-highseccers' but 'people with alts in high-sec and in 0.0'.
Again: irrelevant. It's an argument against the nonsensical assumption that players only ever stick to one area and that the only alternative for all of them is to not play.

Quote:
Again.
- I have said nothing about 'live in null'. I have just said that my alt is in 0.0.
- I have said nothing about my reasons to have alt in 0.0.
Again: irrelevant, for the same reason.

Quote:
That's what i agree with. And all i want to say that not only 'people with alt in 0.0' should be taken into consideration when you change the game.

And that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the standard kneejerk comment whenever the idea of altering the margins come up, is to (incorrectly) cite the character distribution and then assume that characters ≡ accounts ≡ players; that alts are not a thing; that the supposed highsec-only players are a majority; and that this supposed majority is monolithic. All I'm saying is that even the briefest glance at the numbers with the existence of alts in mind blows big chunky giblet-spraying holes in those assumpitons.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2015-06-12 23:04:41 UTC
Here's a good question, what if all players started in null sec instead of high sec?
It's a common attitude of null sec players that high sec players can not appreciate EVE online. So, why not just let the start there? Do you think they would stay with the game then?

I think we all know the answer...
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#147 - 2015-06-12 23:19:00 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Here's a good question, what if all players started in null sec instead of high sec?
It's a common attitude of null sec players that high sec players can not appreciate EVE online. So, why not just let the start there? Do you think they would stay with the game then?

I think we all know the answer...



Why not? Because the starter zones will have people who have nothing better to do except camp the stations and kill everything that undocks. Their "game" will be to drive others out of the game so they can glow with satisfaction when Eve Online is shut down.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#148 - 2015-06-13 00:05:20 UTC
Just throwing this in there:
I had great fun doing high sec PVE when I started EVE. I was in a corp of other new guys, and we all learned the jillion rules, one by one, and advised each other. Well, more like, tried to one-up each other about being the most "expert" knowledgeable, insightful, clever, etc. Great times.
"Kherg, what are you doing mining in a rifter?"
-:: long pause, phrasing and editing an answer:: "I blew up my Thrasher doing an L2. Messed it all up :["
"LOL [blah blah blah questions and advice about dealing with L2s, fittings, etc.] Need a loan m8?"
-"2mil would get me fit up with another Thrasher to finish this mission."
"Check your wallet. You owe me m8."
::Shwing! Headed to Hek, gonna fit better this time, manage cap better, and kill that mission before it expires!::

Great fun! That was from 2008, in my case. But I'd bet guys somewhere are doing the same thing right now. No need to run them off with 'leetism. Just because you're new to the game and learning doesn't mean you're noob. OK, you're noob. But every one of us was noob at some point. That's just the nature of the way things woiks.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#149 - 2015-06-13 00:09:26 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Here's a good question, what if all players started in null sec instead of high sec?
It's a common attitude of null sec players that high sec players can not appreciate EVE online. So, why not just let the start there? Do you think they would stay with the game then?

I think we all know the answer...



rofl.. really you ask this question.. what happens?? and why not??

cause they'll be endlessly , relentlessly hot-dropped on with supers and titans and everything else while they attempt to earn isk..

you see.. they pretend (those in null sec) its "fun" to be 1st line of the fleet that plays tackle in order for the very same people to play in their other shiny ships..

so yeah they only want newbs as meats shields, decoys, drones, and extra bodies to make them feel good about themselves.

plus new players vs higher SP alts and mains would get killed over and over again.. to the point they'd leave null and the game even faster.

and don't let them fool you.. in null sec the epeen ego is HUGE so the new player would get laughed at cause he/she is just starting out..

new player says... "I feel good now I have 10mil SP now and can finally fly more t1 hulls"
Null lord says ........ "you stinkin scrub that's nothing im a cap pilot and have 10 carriers and 2 dreads and working on buying my 2nd titan.. you have nothing compared to me.. now undock and lets fight pls.. I need to pad my killboard with my awesomeness"
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#150 - 2015-06-13 00:50:40 UTC
Okay I'm firing this from my phone (I'm out of the country) but I think there's a major point not being mentioned here. I don't think that it is necessarily the case that we're fighting for a winner here. We can all come out of this with something and broaden the game at the same time. I've been formulating some kind of broad solution (though it may have to wait until I get home, but look at our common complaints. PVE players leave because they're forced into PVP. PVP players are worried they'll become ancillary in their own game. PVP is lifeless and static at the moment. The PVP space is a desert because it's too big, the PVE area is too small. The PVE is boring and easy, and relatively untunable. And nobody wants to turn this into a themepark.

Am I the only one that thinks there are pretty basic ways to deal with all of this that addresses all these problems. This isn't about PVP vs PVE players, theme park vs sandbox, or anything approaching a zero sum game. We can come up with plans that broaden the game and we make blanket improvements to all areas of the game in all its permutations without making big sacrifices.

I mean, that is the optimal solution, right? Use the strategy where we all benefit and get what we want better than we had it?

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
#151 - 2015-06-13 00:51:36 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Here's a good question, what if all players started in null sec instead of high sec?
It's a common attitude of null sec players that high sec players can not appreciate EVE online. So, why not just let the start there? Do you think they would stay with the game then?

I think we all know the answer...



rofl.. really you ask this question.. what happens?? and why not??

cause they'll be endlessly , relentlessly hot-dropped on with supers and titans and everything else while they attempt to earn isk..

you see.. they pretend (those in null sec) its "fun" to be 1st line of the fleet that plays tackle in order for the very same people to play in their other shiny ships..

so yeah they only want newbs as meats shields, decoys, drones, and extra bodies to make them feel good about themselves.

plus new players vs higher SP alts and mains would get killed over and over again.. to the point they'd leave null and the game even faster.

and don't let them fool you.. in null sec the epeen ego is HUGE so the new player would get laughed at cause he/she is just starting out..

new player says... "I feel good now I have 10mil SP now and can finally fly more t1 hulls"
Null lord says ........ "you stinkin scrub that's nothing im a cap pilot and have 10 carriers and 2 dreads and working on buying my 2nd titan.. you have nothing compared to me.. now undock and lets fight pls.. I need to pad my killboard with my awesomeness"



Thats actually somewhat correct, i know a few of that sort that fuel their days in null on their cloud of selfgloryfying awesomeness lol
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2015-06-13 06:05:59 UTC
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:



Thats actually somewhat correct, i know a few of that sort that fuel their days in null on their cloud of selfgloryfying awesomeness lol

It's sick. Then they claim they are elite and go pad their killboard. Then they have the nerve to talk about more successful games and their dull gameplay. I guess to some people PVP means getting fed easy kills by the game developers.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#153 - 2015-06-13 07:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:



Thats actually somewhat correct, i know a few of that sort that fuel their days in null on their cloud of selfgloryfying awesomeness lol

It's sick. Then they claim they are elite and go pad their killboard. Then they have the nerve to talk about more successful games and their dull gameplay. I guess to some people PVP means getting fed easy kills by the game developers.


And pve'ers are any different? Oh no i got killed in my purple rattlesnake why does this game do this to me why, why cant ccp make the game so im left in peace to play solo safely and make isk for no reason at all, why can i not just get handed content instead of having to go look for it, atleast the super pilot is actually creating content and marketing for the game, no great story started in highsec with a solo mission runner or a miner.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2015-06-13 07:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Lan Wang wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:



Thats actually somewhat correct, i know a few of that sort that fuel their days in null on their cloud of selfgloryfying awesomeness lol

It's sick. Then they claim they are elite and go pad their killboard. Then they have the nerve to talk about more successful games and their dull gameplay. I guess to some people PVP means getting fed easy kills by the game developers.


And pve'ers are any different?

Yes they are.


EDIT: Nice edit btw.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#155 - 2015-06-13 08:00:06 UTC
Pve players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2015-06-13 08:01:05 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Pve players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making

PVP players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#157 - 2015-06-13 08:01:40 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Pve players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making

PVP players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making.


Example please

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2015-06-13 08:03:12 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Pve players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making

PVP players do nothing but complain and cry for nerfs because something affects theyre isk making.


Example please

You first Big smile
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#159 - 2015-06-13 08:07:35 UTC
Now see if you actually had something relevant then you would have gave some examples however you dont so you try to divert the request on to me

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2015-06-13 08:09:37 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Now see if you actually had something relevant then you would have gave some examples however you dont so you try to divert the request on to me


Re post your paragraph edit and I will answer it.