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[CLRGY] The Amarr People are justified in the Reclaiming.

Author
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2015-06-10 18:09:07 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Hmm... that makes sense for the most part, I still don't get how they are sure this mandate isn't tainted. Maybe its just the faith thing?


Once you put your utter and complete trust in God, I suppose it doesn't feel that strange to place your utter and complete trust in God's representative in New Eden.

I don't share the Amarrian faith but I really understand the draw of it. I'd love to have complete faith in something bigger than me, something infalliable and powerful. The Way doesn't really provide that, having more of a focus on collectivism and consequences - I suppose that's why it feels more real to me, since life often asks us to sacrifice for the greater good and quite often confronts us with the consequences of our actions.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#22 - 2015-06-10 18:30:34 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Hmm... that makes sense for the most part, I still don't get how they are sure this mandate isn't tainted. Maybe its just the faith thing?


Once you put your utter and complete trust in God, I suppose it doesn't feel that strange to place your utter and complete trust in God's representative in New Eden.

I don't share the Amarrian faith but I really understand the draw of it. I'd love to have complete faith in something bigger than me, something infalliable and powerful. The Way doesn't really provide that, having more of a focus on collectivism and consequences - I suppose that's why it feels more real to me, since life often asks us to sacrifice for the greater good and quite often confronts us with the consequences of our actions.


Yes, and that's why you should trust those you surround yourself with, over time I mean. Trust in a force that has no visible effect on your life aside from what your told is a visible effect isn't really trust. If anything its praying for mercy. I don't really see the appeal of the Faith. The consequences of my own actions are on me, in the end following it seems to just lead to being faced with the consequences of the actions of others and waiting for your faith to come to fruition.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#23 - 2015-06-10 18:58:37 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Maybe its just the faith thing?


Yes.

If you struggle to see it from the religious perspective, then you can consider it from a secular one: Devotion to the emperor ensures a stable society. Civil unrest happens most frequently in places where individual expression is permitted.

Amarr is a society of vertical collectivism. It is similar to a military, you put your trust in those above you to lead you. Even if you don't like whoever is above you, you still respect the position they hold.

Not every choice the emperor, heirs, or holders make may be viewed positively. But we still respect that they are the emperor, heir, or holder.

Amarr is about submission.

For all things under Me serve one higher
-Reclaiming 3.20


Pieter, what you describe is what we have. Collectivism and sacrifice for a higher purpose.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#24 - 2015-06-10 19:12:08 UTC
Well, that makes more sense.

Thank you.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2015-06-10 19:32:13 UTC
Where's Kithrus?

**Vherokior **

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2015-06-10 20:17:06 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:

Pieter, what you describe is what we have. Collectivism and sacrifice for a higher purpose.


Not for nothing do I suspect our Maker and your God to be far too similar for mere coincidence.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#27 - 2015-06-10 20:22:36 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

Pieter, what you describe is what we have. Collectivism and sacrifice for a higher purpose.


Not for nothing do I suspect our Maker and your God to be far too similar for mere coincidence.


I've said as much to you before.

All people were once united under God. The religions held by most of today's cultures are probably remnants of older beliefs, rather than entirely original.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2015-06-10 20:48:27 UTC
Although my first instinct was to shy away from that, it explains the many, many similarities in cultures and peoples that supposedly arose on worlds far too distant for cross pollination to be natural.

What are the odds of genetically compatible life arising naturally on two separate planets in the same system, for example? It's my belief that there may have been a time in a very distant past when our ancestors were one culture.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#29 - 2015-06-10 21:08:01 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Although my first instinct was to shy away from that, it explains the many, many similarities in cultures and peoples that supposedly arose on worlds far too distant for cross pollination to be natural.

What are the odds of genetically compatible life arising naturally on two separate planets in the same system, for example? It's my belief that there may have been a time in a very distant past when our ancestors were one culture.


Perhaps, or that we at least share a common origin, regardless of local culture.
Even looking at each of the planets within luminaire shows that multiple cultures can arise on a single world, both the Garoun and Raata empires were built from divergent cultures.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2015-06-10 21:12:18 UTC
I'd expect multiple cultures on a single world, since all that would be required is a stout pair of boots or a boat to travel from wherever life sprang.

All those similarities on cultures rising on different WORLDS on the other hand... That's the hard part to understand, especially the fact that Caldari Prime was almost certainly being terraformed at a time when my people were making clothes from animal hides.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

RhajKa
Unity Ventures
#31 - 2015-06-10 22:13:30 UTC
Rytha Main wrote:
RhajKa wrote:


God calls Amarrians to return to the mandate of the Reclaiming, recognizing that being Amarr is nothing without the drive to spread God’s word. If it is not reaching, converting and multiplying the faithful, it is not Amarrian.



Very well said Brother Ka.

Is it my understanding that CLGRY has re-opened it's doors?



Indeed CLGRY's doors are open to all that seek the truth..

Rhaj Ka
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#32 - 2015-06-10 22:40:32 UTC
You know what? I'll agree with this. It is completely justified for the Amarrians to reclaim, and we are equally justified shooting at you for doing so. Back to square one for all of us.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#33 - 2015-06-10 22:51:34 UTC
Well..

I don't suppose we can vote on it?
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#34 - 2015-06-10 23:33:30 UTC
I don't know. I'll have to check with the board of directors...
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#35 - 2015-06-10 23:39:09 UTC
So I have to admit I Am a bit confused, is the word of the emperor invalid unless the empress says it is or is the words of the emperor only invalid once the empress or the theology council declares it invalid?

I am not trying to speak with offense I just don't get which way it is supposed to be since there seems to be people acting like both are true when they mutually exclude one another.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#36 - 2015-06-10 23:54:25 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
So I have to admit I Am a bit confused, is the word of the emperor invalid unless the empress says it is or is the words of the emperor only invalid once the empress or the theology council declares it invalid?


Decrees of the emperor remain valid as long as that emperor is alive. The Theology Council has to write those decrees into Scripture for them to last into perpetuity beyond the emperor's reign.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#37 - 2015-06-11 01:44:32 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
So I have to admit I Am a bit confused, is the word of the emperor invalid unless the empress says it is or is the words of the emperor only invalid once the empress or the theology council declares it invalid?


Decrees of the emperor remain valid as long as that emperor is alive. The Theology Council has to write those decrees into Scripture for them to last into perpetuity beyond the emperor's reign.

Thank you for answering Samira. Does this mean the Pax Amarrian doesn't mean anything binding at the moment? Or has the theology council already decreed it.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#38 - 2015-06-11 02:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
The Pax Amarria is not part of Scripture, though that may change. It was not even a decree, it was just his personal writings. As the work of an emperor it is a blessed writing, but it is not "binding".

What is added to Scripture are things that are important enough that they must be acknowledged and understood by everyone in Amarr. They are things that must be preserved for time everlasting, until they are no longer needed for guidance. The Pax Amarria is a great book, but is it something so important that our children's children's children should also understand? That is what the Theology Council decides.

Things not in the Scripture are temporal. While they might be useful today, their use is limited. It has a time and place. Scripture is unlimited. It is useful for ages to come, for all Amarr.
Kontrahage
Perkone
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-06-11 10:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kontrahage
Evi Polevhia wrote:
So, you are going to relcaim the Caldari? Is that what OP is saying? Because in the interests of peace most Amarr tap dance away from being so honest.


I am a Caldari and after wandering the universe in search for a purpose beyond amassing material wealth and abusing my power as a capsuleer at the expense of mortals I have now submitted my self to the one true reason why we live:

To better the totality that is the universe through serving him who created it and gave us this power for our task.

I am a reclaimed Caldari and I hope that some day all of my people will return to HIS grace.
Different people need different ways of reclaiming though and while the Minmatar seem to require a strong hand to guide them to righteousness. The way to the Caldari heart has been opend through centuries of commerce and exchange with the Khanid and
my own people, the Achura, have been searching for HIM for millennia.
The reclaiming of the Caldari will be when they come asking for it.

Deitra Vess wrote:
Ever stop and think, "Maybe the drifters were sent by god to punish us for mutilating his teachings into something revolving around bloodshed instead of his actual message?" Don't see them as frequently in Minmatar space as much as Amarrian space....


Of course not. What would they want there? There is nothing to be learned, to be gained or to be feared.
The drifters seek information about those who will pose the strongest opposition.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-06-11 11:42:39 UTC
Personally, if I'm going to conquer lands over the dead bodies of my enemies it's not going to be for an old meme like God.

ISK and Loyalty Points, though? Sure, why not.

Kurilaivonen|Concern