EVE General Discussion

…or, as in this case, because you haven't been paying attention or done any research on the matter. Whether it's wilful or not remains to be seen, but a worrying trend is starting to appear here…

No, he didn't.

So what you're saying is that you're ignorant of what people say, not because it hasn't been said, but because you haven't been paying attention or done any research on the matter. After all, it's a topic where the historical threadnoughts are pretty trivial to find.

Even the OP seems to be familiar with the history of the topic, whereas you choose to ignore it for some unconceivable reason, and instead choose to get upset when people tell you that you're not adding anything to the conversation — something you should already know.

…but not to add anything relevant to the conversation. That's why you need to actually do the research first, or people will just dismiss you as flogging a dead horse.

What you said doesn't change what he said, nor does putting words in his mouth.
He gave you a piece of advice, and you'd be well advised to follow it unless you want that worrying trend to continue…

No amount of imagination make something the way you want it. CCP imagined a awesome epic WiS. Yea that didn't work out so well. For every MMO out there there are 10 that failed that imagined amazing things...

Sooner or later imagination hits reality.

Yea this sort of thing is my day job.

Yes in the current form of eve with 1 sec server ticks. This would be unbearable with First person interactions. Other interactions and stuff are harder as well. Since local geometry is more important and typically a bigger server burden.

Don't get me wrong. It could be done. But dam if WoW started using phasing to fix their performance issues when they make *billions*, i think it pays not to underestimated the difficulty of the task for a company much smaller than Blizzard.

*reads thread about WiS*

*checks for the usual trolls, trolling as usual*

*sighs*

It's been 8 years since the original plans for Ambulation.

It's about to be 4 years since Incarnageddon.

WiS was the future. Now EVE no longer haves a future, rather a ongoing present attempting to replay the past with Apochrypha 2.0 (new zero security space! And this time you're meant to colonize it! It worked in 2009, so why take any chances?)

All pros and cons of WiS have been said many times. So I'll try to summarize it in a single sentence:

EVE with WiS would be a different EVE, and CCP is no longer attempting that.

No-one is asking you to. You simply need to look at the broad strokes of the large threads, and especially the ones with dev statments in them.

No, it's just a new thread on a very old and very tried topic where nothing new has come up in many years — hence the reason it can be abbreviated into the two points mentioned. Until something new is actually added, those two points remain accurate and comprehensive.

Not really, no.

It happened and was awesome, but they threw it away. Then they did it again. And again… They kept increasing or altering the scope to just beyond what they were capable of delivering on a performance and gameplay standpoint until they had lost all the money invested and could no longer rely on their main source of income to maintain it. Technical limitations were part of it; money was part of it; and good-will was part of it.

Funnily[?] enough, the first public demo in 2008 was probably their best bet and seemed to deliver what most people wanted (most notably multi-avatar interaction), except for one thing: it didn't have the flash CCP required for WoD. Had they stuck with that, we could conceivably have had full WiS with ageing graphics (that might be worth upgrading) now, rather than a tech-demo with ageing graphics and no value or redeeming qualities to warrant an upgrade.

These days, the technical limitations may be ever so slightly behind us, but instead the building blocks have become old and crusty and not all that good a foundation for anything any more. This means they have to lower their aim, re-build a lot from scratch (again), and yet somehow convince a slowly dwindling community that this time it'll work, if people suspend their wish for constant improvement just one more time… One stumbling block is conceivably behind us, largely because that's just how things progress, but the others have grown into stumbling mountains in the meantime.

If you watch the old 2008 presentations (here, here, and here), you'll notice that the environments are more complex and expansive and — most importantly — contain several avatars at once. How well that would scale with actual players controlling them is up for grabs, as would the issue of having everyone in the same place at the same time, but the demo allowed for something the Incarna engine simply could not do at launch: run multiple avatars in one scene.

The hands-on demo that we were allowed to play with at FF2008 was, if not spectacularly fast, then at least in working order in this one crucial regard. The rest, as you say, can be done with some intelligent form of instancing (which matters less in the type of environment WiS was supposed to offer, as opposed to open space).

Later peeks at WoD suggested that they might have overcome that, but by then it was too late.

I never said it's easy. It's essential to take time to read, think about and understand other people's posts. You do not do so, thus I will not dignify your drivel with further responses. Please take my post as a hint and a sign that you could improve your behaviour.

Thanks for the compliment!

I must admit, WiS is still something that deep down I would love to eventually see, but after reading the well-constructed posts by some of those who are against it, I'm happy to settle with the game without it. Its not my job nor in my interests to start some crazy crusade to make it a reality while pissing off a lot of people.

I like to avoid conflict, unless I'm being shot at while in my ship in space

CCP has been "fixing the core game" now for several years. The result? Concurrent user count is typically lower than just after Incarna.

It has not worked. CCP needs some balance here. WiS is an incomplete, broken feature. Just like all other incomplete, broken features, it needs to be fixed and completed in parallel with the other work.

Oddly, the last WiS related thread was titled "drinking in stations". It was a fairly popular thread, with quite a bit of support. I think we need "Drinking and gambling in stations." It would not allow you to shoot other players, but it would be funny to see someone gamble away their Titian.