Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Im confused. Where are you getting 50km from when HM have a base range of 63km? 3 t1 velocity rigs take it to 88km. Not to mention using 3 range rigs is absurd... tank? Whats that? What sane person would sacrifice all 3 rigs for missile range?

Then you state 1k dps, thats an eft number. Turn on the "count reload into dps" preference and see that number drop. Not to mention even with a tp, damage applied to anything smaller than a mwd shield cruiser will be much less than that number. Not factoring in the ever common link scrub too.

"More mids to support TP and webs" explain how your triple velocity rigged raven has webs that reach out to 88km (and a tank for that matter). A single TP will help, but you will still get fairly poor application because TP will be operating in falloff.

Then rapid lights are mentioned.. are you sure you're talking about the right weapon platform?

Now, i think RHML are in decent shape. Though having the velocity bonus on the raven count towards RHML would be fine. The caracals velocity bonus applies to RLML.. so i dont see an issue there. The typhoon bonus though... as much as i would LOVE IT, it would be pretty OP. I kill t3d and AF all the time with my application fit t1 and FI phoon. Having that bonus apply to heavies would mean i could drop some application and fit more tank/EWAR and still obsolutely dunk frigs/t3d.

Fury HMLs... Base range is 47km.
The mention of range rigs was just to show that you can get good range.



You shouldn't factor reload when it comes to rapid launchers
The intent is to throw out as much DPS as possible before you hit reload.
Hence the long reload time.
If you kill the target before reload, you're getting that full 982 dps with fury and 4x BCU.


The mention of rapid lights was a mistake. Meant to say RHMLs... They're really intended for brawling.



Yes, but a Caracal doesn't put out as much damage, or have as much tank and utility as a higher class ship.
You can still fit a phoon with RHMLs. You do need the added range to the increased application.

No. Bad pilot *hits with newspaper*

Fury missiles should NEVER be used against a target at range. It has terrible application and will only do full dps to a webbed BC. Or double webbed cruiser when you have rigor (maybe).

150km with fury missiles is still bad because of how poor they apply. You can literally do 200dps to a mwd cruiser using unsupported fury missiles.

Fury/rage missiles MUST be supported properly to get all that dps on target. Meaning webs/tp/rigor etc.

Yes you do factor in reload, not every fight is a 1v1. I was fighting a VNI and legion in my phoon. The VNI (he was linked i think) soaked up a whole clip and my drones had to kill him. Then i waited for reload before missile spamming legion (he lived). Ideally you burst dps a few targets, but that is rarely the case.

RHML need more support to apply properly than a RLML caracal. Bottom line is, a cruiser is getting a bonus to an ammo group smaller than its hull. The same could be applied to the raven under the same principle. Heavies will still apply poorly even if the raven can shoot to 90km.

I can understand the concern that Rapid Launchers can be overpowered if they receive application bonuses because the Rapid Launchers are High DPS, High Application, High Fitting Requirements.

Rapid Lights are Cruiser DPS Launchers with Frigate Application

Rapid Heavies are BS DPS with Cruiser Application

I think the concern with giving application bonuses to Rapid Heavies is that they already have an inherent application bonus.

Really the only 2 boats that have good use of RHMLs is the Rattlesnake and Barghest. The Golem uses them well in a brawling PvP fit.

But I think overall they suffer from the weakness that it is heavy missiles and that if Heavy Missiles were fixed to be useful and then the Battleship application bonus applied to them, they would become OP as hell.

I'd rather have heavy missiles be buffed then the BS application bonus apply to them.

The one exception to this is the golem, I think that those bonuses should apply for Rapid Heavies due to the fact that it becomes stationary in bastion, so at the very least having the velocity bonus apply would be cool.

I'm not going to search out the quotes, but CCP specifically stated that they didn't want secondary bonuses to apply to RHMLs.
Their reasoning was that no one would use torps/cruise, as RHMLs have better application, thus better against smaller ships.