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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Public Petition to Directive Enforcement Department (DED) of CONCORD

Author
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#141 - 2015-06-23 00:58:02 UTC
You again seem to fail to grasp the lesson that was so recently taught. Blind obedience to the State is just as detrimental as attacking it.


I'd say you need to spend some time with some Hak'len under a Kresh tree. Drink and let the soil's essence lighten your heart.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#142 - 2015-06-23 02:26:08 UTC
Not an empty repost, I await your response to both Liam and myself.
You claim to want responses exactly like those we provided and have continued to ignore them in favour of making continued personal attacks upon both ourselves and other posters within the thread.



Diana Kim wrote:

I'd prefer you attack my post directly, then I'd have more chance of expanding and explaining my point instead of shrugging off words about me.



You have recieved at least two direct responses that have taken your OP apart and refuted each point separately.
Rather than respond to these, you have pointedly ignored them.

By your actions, you prove your words to be false and those of others to be correct.

-Tertianus Rethelior

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#143 - 2015-06-23 05:05:14 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Isn't Pyre a Caldari mercenary outfit?

Currently they are serving Empire.
Besides, mercenary actually serve the money, that's where their loyalty belongs to. They don't have home, they don't have anything dear to protect.

Only some of them are Caldari, or, should I say, were Caldari... by blood. Of course, there are mercenaries even in the State, who can be called Caldari mercenaries. But they serve only Caldari corporations. Otherwise they wouldn't be Caldari.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#144 - 2015-06-23 05:11:46 UTC
Okay, lets read what that... person has written as a "direct response to my post". Okay... slowly breath out, and lets look carefully
iyammarrok wrote:
Liam, don't bother.

she took your earlier statement of 'if I were to do so' as 'you do so' ....
Diana, while completely capable of discerning the true meaning of your words

Second sentence, already lie and attack on me. My post, really?...

iyammarrok wrote:

CHOOSES to misinterpret them and take offence.

Whoa.

iyammarrok wrote:

Take her response to Pieter, where she says she doesn't care for the intent of his words, merely that her own misinterpretation of them was, mistakenly, taken as an insult.

Really?...

iyammarrok wrote:

then she has the nerve to claim that he is a traitor to the state due to the fact that his corporation is currently on secondment to the Amarr militia.

Nice discussion of my post. Or wait, do I look like a post?

Not going to read further.

In other words, I am tired of iyammarrok-grade stupidity.
I'll look through other reply though in a bit~

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-06-23 05:39:42 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
To be considerate to you as the original author of this thread, I will indeed address the petition itself. Before I do so, I will point out that even if the petition is written respectfully and honestly (which it appears to be), the reason you are receiving the responses you are receiving is because of the above mentioned dilemma; that being your usual demeanor in discussions and why people do not listen to what you have to say; because of how you often say it.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you the certain kind of species, called GALLENTEANS. While claiming to be "considerate" and going to address the petition itself, this one with his first action starts talking about me by spreading gallentean propaganda.
I mean... can we REALLY talk with gallenteans? Can we take them seriously?.. Just shoot them down, with such approach diplomacy will never succeed.

But very well, lets try to speak with a gallentean, like he would be a human, ignoring his blabbering.

Liam Antolliere wrote:

I believe you raise valid concerns regarding the nature of these prison camps and of the illegitimacy of their existence and operation. I also believe having them declared a DED threat assessment would alleviate the political and military web their existence has woven, as it would enable those of us with the means necessary to deal with them candidly.

Hmm. Okay, consider me surprised.
I don't get though what you are getting with it? To admit your own government installation as a DED threats, this is pretty much unusual. I honestly sense some sort of a trap here, but let it be this way.

Liam Antolliere wrote:

Regarding your first point: I believe it is more a matter for the Federation and its people to label the SDII as a "terrorist" organization (or, more appropriately, an extralegal organization) and to dissolve it internally. CONCORD has no jurisdiction within the Federation itself. Though, I will state for the record that I already view the SDII under such terms.

If it would be for the Federation and its people if SDII acted only inside the Federation. Unfortunately, being called department of internal investigations, its hands spread way outside of the Federation, thus this decision should be taken on international level.

Liam Antolliere wrote:

Regarding your second point: I cannot agree with this request. the Federal Navy is a legitimate military organization operating legally within the confines of that identity. Further, the actions of the late Admiral Noir have been under suspicion since the incident and investigation has repeatedly suggested a very well hidden level of foul play at work, including potential assassination with intent to impersonate.

I heard that story too. I prefer to base my opinions on facts, not rumors.

Liam Antolliere wrote:

Regarding your third point: A lack of public terrorist activity does not alleviate the responsibility of the organization, particularly given that its goals and purpose for existence have not changed. Further, I would like to illustrate the double standard of attempting to acquit one organization for its past crimes while simultaneously suing another for its past crimes.

Goals and purpose of the organization? Templis Dragonaurs is an ancient culture preservation society. It became "terrorist" only because of gallentean actions, when they blockaded our homeworld. Peoples were desperate. Was what they did correct? No. But blaming those, who are alive and tend for Caldari culture for actions who died 200 years ago is...
well...
Let's say that a smart and compassionate person wouldn't do this.

As for "double standards", this is rather hypocritical. As it is our corporation who is considered terrorist and yours are not, while what your corporations (Navy and Black Eagles) did, brought death of way greater number of civilian lives that TD ever killed.
Besides, I would like to point out on a huge significance in our judgements:

I tend to judge peoples for what they are doing, not what someone did years ago. I repeat one more time, everyone who were involved in disposal of Nouvelle Rouvenor had either died in explosion or died from the age (those, who were supporting them with funds and services); while those, who funded Noir's attack, participated in Operation Highlander on gallente side, who torture Caldari PoWs and commit genocide in Caldari colonies - they are still alive, and they are ones who must be judged.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#146 - 2015-06-23 05:52:00 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:

Regarding your final point: The Federation cannot be reasonably faulted for the military decisions and direction of the Caldari State, its Navy or any of its officers. The decision to lower the Titan into low orbit was made by the State, not the Federation. Second, if an investigation into the events leading up to and surrounding that day is to be undertaken, it should be under the notion of investigating a breach of international treaty, not a war crimes investigation; which is a political investigation, not a police one.

Oh, really?
So it was a Caldari fault?
You know, if you land your cruiser near gallente colony and I'll blow it from the orbit, so it's remains will splatter all over colony, engulfing it in flames and molten carbides, I will blame you and will say you killed poor civilians by landing your ship there.
Fair? Or no?

Let's discuss it further without iyammarrok-grade stupidity. Anyone will understand that responsibility for attack lays on attacking side. If I'd blown your ship and kill peoples with its remains, it would be my responsibility, not your. And downing titan on Caldari Prime was GALLENTE fault, not our. That's rather easy to comprehend, I don't even know why I have to explain this over and over again. Look. It was Caldari decision to support ground troops on the planet, because gallenteans have violated the treaty and started armed conflict on our homeworld. And only after our titan moved to vulnerable positions, gallente fleet landed "to kill it". I'd like to note, that they did it not before the titan moved to support ground troops, but right after we did it.

Yes, it is a breach of international treaty, but gallenteans could have done it cleaner and attacked titan itself first, instead of luring it towards planet. Thus, besides investigation of internation treaty violation, I would stand on requirement to investigate criminal action of Gallente federation in mass murder, genocide and using of military operation to cause terror and deaths among Caldari citizens.

If gallente were doing what they were claim to do "to kill titan, that was threatening our planet", they wouldn't start ground operation at all.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#147 - 2015-06-23 08:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: iyammarrok
Regarding your misinterpretation of Liam.

Liam Antolliere wrote:
If I were to stand here and tell you the absolute truth of a situation but do so through the use of insults, demeaning terminology, dismissive arrogance or antagonistic taunts then you'll no more listen to what I'm saying than a wall would.


Diana Kim wrote:
No, you have said that I DO SO "through the use of insults, demeaning terminology, dismissive arrogance or antagonistic taunts".



Regarding your willful misinterpretation and ignorance of Pieter

Diana Kim wrote:
I am asking you for not what you have meant, but for what you have written.



and finally regarding your ignorance of the majority of my own post.

These were not attacks, but statements of FACT.
if you do not want these things brought up, stop doing them.

your choice to ignore the very portion of that post that you asked for, speaks volumes as to your character and intent.
I didn't expect more from you, but I had hoped you would at least try to prove me wrong instead of relying on ad hominem attacks.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#148 - 2015-06-23 15:01:46 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Isn't Pyre a Caldari mercenary outfit?

Currently they are serving Empire.
Besides, mercenary actually serve the money, that's where their loyalty belongs to. They don't have home, they don't have anything dear to protect.

Only some of them are Caldari, or, should I say, were Caldari... by blood. Of course, there are mercenaries even in the State, who can be called Caldari mercenaries. But they serve only Caldari corporations. Otherwise they wouldn't be Caldari.


They are serving the Empire, your ally. Thus they are serving the money of your ally. The well being of your ally positively effects your own efforts does it not? Maybe its some cultural difference but that does not seem like a good reason to ostracize them. In the end it seems to positively effect your own efforts.

If it is the fact that they are not all Caldari then let me ask: Hypothetically speaking if I had some change of heart, left Scope Works, withdrew from the Amarr/Minmatar warzone, decided that I wanted to try to be a State citizen, tried for employment with Kaalakiota before enlisting In the State Protectorate and subsequently formed a mercenary corporation with like minded individuals, mainly Sebiestor, would it still in your eyes be seen as a Matari corporation? Would I be seen as a loyal Caldari citizen after disavowing my own culture to take on yours?

Please note I'm not trying to defend Pyre. I shoot at them and they shoot at me. I'm just curious as to what you would consider a loyal Caldari corporation and to what extent that goes to. Also if it is not apparent I have no clue as to how to go about trying to be a Caldari citizen. Its just not something I have ever really had a reason to look into so excuse me if I got that wrong on how to become one if its even really possible.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#149 - 2015-06-23 17:20:33 UTC
To be a Caldari citizen you simply have to be a citizen of a registered Caldari Corporation. Most Corporations are aligned with or owned by one of the Okusaiken, the eight big Megacorporations that run most of the State.

So, to reiterate, despite what Miss Provist-Pants over there thinks, Pyre Falcon is a registered affiliate of Kalaakiota Corporation and many of it's employees are citizens of that Corporation or others within the State. I am not at liberty to explore the specifics of our contracts with the Empire or Kalaakiota, but I doubt I need to prove my bona-fides as a Caldari citizen anymore than I already have, do I?

Being a 'good' Caldari is, of course, a much more complex matter than simply being a Caldari citizen, but I doubt that a mouthy half-breed has much to teach me there, either.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#150 - 2015-06-23 18:04:16 UTC
well, at least I kinda got it. I would imagine if your an affiliate of Kalaakiola there would be something going back to your mother megacorporation right? Not asking what, still there is some connection financially or otherwise right? I've always kinda assumed something aside from loyalty still bound you to them.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#151 - 2015-06-24 05:44:13 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Isn't Pyre a Caldari mercenary outfit?

Currently they are serving Empire.
Besides, mercenary actually serve the money, that's where their loyalty belongs to. They don't have home, they don't have anything dear to protect.

Only some of them are Caldari, or, should I say, were Caldari... by blood. Of course, there are mercenaries even in the State, who can be called Caldari mercenaries. But they serve only Caldari corporations. Otherwise they wouldn't be Caldari.


They are serving the Empire, your ally. Thus they are serving the money of your ally. The well being of your ally positively effects your own efforts does it not? Maybe its some cultural difference but that does not seem like a good reason to ostracize them. In the end it seems to positively effect your own efforts.

Ms. Vess, I don't have anything against Pyre, really. This derailment is just a result of a Pyre's mercenary blaming State officer in being "stateless".

Deitra Vess wrote:

If it is the fact that they are not all Caldari then let me ask: Hypothetically speaking if I had some change of heart, left Scope Works, withdrew from the Amarr/Minmatar warzone, decided that I wanted to try to be a State citizen, tried for employment with Kaalakiota before enlisting In the State Protectorate and subsequently formed a mercenary corporation with like minded individuals, mainly Sebiestor, would it still in your eyes be seen as a Matari corporation? Would I be seen as a loyal Caldari citizen after disavowing my own culture to take on yours?

Traitor is always a traitor, Ms. Vess, even if you betrayed your culture to join us. You might earn somehow citizenship, I don't know how, but I think we both can agree, that attitude of State citizens towards this matari corporation (I mean real citizens, not IGS pretenders) will be far from ideal and from your expectations. Sorry.

Deitra Vess wrote:

Please note I'm not trying to defend Pyre. I shoot at them and they shoot at me. I'm just curious as to what you would consider a loyal Caldari corporation and to what extent that goes to. Also if it is not apparent I have no clue as to how to go about trying to be a Caldari citizen. Its just not something I have ever really had a reason to look into so excuse me if I got that wrong on how to become one if its even really possible.

Living in the State, serving the State, being the official State corporation or State's corporation affiliate. Oh, and of course having loyal to the State law abiding CEO and law abiding corporation members.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#152 - 2015-06-24 10:59:36 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Being a 'good' Caldari is, of course, a much more complex matter than simply being a Caldari citizen, but I doubt that a mouthy half-breed has much to teach me there, either.

I have seen unprofitable tyuui like you back in the Academy. If they would dare to look into my face while yelping their ligori like you, and not cowardly hiding from me behind neocom screen, like you do, they would be wriggle on floor under my boots. But it is not your cowardless that I want to address now.

It is your damn treason and claims to be "Caldari", while squirting lies about me. You don't even respect Caldari given insignia. You don't respect Caldari heroes. Your so-called "Kaalakiota aligned" corporation is a den of criminal scum, harboring stupid gurista and known Sansha droids. Oh, cmon, would anyone really think KK would EVER allow Sansha into their territory, not speaking about joining their corporation?! How baka should you be to believe that! Home Guard would cut you all into pasta if you would be part of KK team! Murderer Oiritsuu was killing for less! And now you just claim you are part of KK, you damn STAY in that corporation, ridden with gurista and sansha like damn gurista! It was your damn decision to stay with them when they were betraying the executor, it was your damn decision to stay with them when they left the State, it was your damn decision to stay under gurista CEO, you lost your loyalty and privilege of being called Caldari, your so "pure" blood now is nothing but a gurista tyuui. And you made these damn decisions BECAUSE YOU ARE A DAMN BAKA!

YOU ARE A COWARD HONORLESS BAKA AND YOU WILL DIE AS A BAKA!!

BAAAKAA~~

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Trenmir Bedala
Bedala Salvage
#153 - 2015-06-24 11:41:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Trenmir Bedala
Ms. Kim,

I say this only because I care, there many decaffeinated brands of tea that just as tasty and refreshing as the regular kind. If you like I can deliver you some liberated from CBD Convoy....
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#154 - 2015-06-24 12:35:38 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Traitor is always a traitor, Ms. Vess, even if you betrayed your culture to join us. You might earn somehow citizenship, I don't know how, but I think we both can agree, that attitude of State citizens towards this matari corporation (I mean real citizens, not IGS pretenders) will be far from ideal and from your expectations. Sorry.

Well can't say I don't agree with that sentiment, though I'm a little surprised even proving your loyalty doesn't count for much.

Diana Kim wrote:
Living in the State, serving the State, being the official State corporation or State's corporation affiliate. Oh, and of course having loyal to the State law abiding CEO and law abiding corporation members.


For some reason I thought there would be more to it. That's really just understandable requirements.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#155 - 2015-06-24 12:41:41 UTC
Trenmir Bedala wrote:

I say this only because I care, there many decaffeinated brands of tea that just as tasty and refreshing as the regular kind. If you like I can deliver you some liberated from CBD Convoy....


I'm pretty sure her switching from caffeinated tea to decaffeinated wouldn't do much, nor would switching from caffeinated tea to seditives. Its pretty clear she's quite the driven individual...

Roll
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#156 - 2015-06-24 15:52:02 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
YOU ARE A COWARD HONORLESS BAKA AND YOU WILL DIE AS A BAKA!!

BAAAKAA~~

Diana-haani,

Calm down. Go down to the gym, and have a hot bath after.
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#157 - 2015-06-24 16:34:58 UTC
Madam, I think you better ease off the boosters or you'll blow your current clone. I know we recently changed them so that new clones slugs are cheap but no reason to be wasteful.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#158 - 2015-06-24 17:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Deitra Vess wrote:
well, at least I kinda got it. I would imagine if your an affiliate of Kalaakiola there would be something going back to your mother megacorporation right? Not asking what, still there is some connection financially or otherwise right? I've always kinda assumed something aside from loyalty still bound you to them.


That would be a safe assumption.

Regarding my status as a citizen - it has already been publicly alluded to by Kalaakiota around the time of the lawsuit against us by the CBD. I've certainly not heard anything disenfranchising me since - and I assume nobody else can point to a public or private statement to that effect either?

Awesome.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

iyammarrok
Drunken Beaver Mining
Gnawthority
#159 - 2015-06-24 20:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: iyammarrok
Diana, I seem to remember a previous honour duel, where you used a softclone to survive the encounter with Pieter here.

Go drink the Tea, or, actually, simply Biomass yourself.
You've lost credibility with everyone, including any and all State loyal capsuleer corporations, relegated to a mercenary and pirate outfit created specifically to herd those like yourself for the CEWPA warzones.

and as for anyone betraying the former executor and terrorist heth, well... according to the CEP, acting against him and his dragonaur buddies is an act of loyalty.
Remind me again, who is the legitimate ruling body within the State?

Stop bleating and screaming, you are no longer relevant.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#160 - 2015-06-24 20:45:54 UTC
*grabs more popcorn*

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.