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daltonism problem with new icons, impossible to do PvP

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Tengu Reiuji
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-06-07 02:51:30 UTC
Think a few people are getting too tied up here thinking this is a thread against the new icons. While they may or may not be an issue, what we're asking for is some consideration to colour blind players who are now finding it even harder to play Eve due to an oversight in the new UI.

Full support for this one.
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2015-06-07 03:42:42 UTC
You've managed to shoot 7000 dying ships.. Not 7000 kills


The color blind stuff sucks though :(
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#83 - 2015-06-07 09:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
its a downside to being a member of a small demographic within a niche game

just like scanning is largely off-limits to me


you can try to raise ccp's awareness of the problem
through the csm & feedback
whether they can do anything is a different matter
Tau Onyeka
Krusual Syndicate
#84 - 2015-06-07 09:50:52 UTC
Tbh, the icon changes would have been a great moment to introduce a colour blind option. Not having done so showcases an amazing lack of insight.
Piearry Laforin
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#85 - 2015-06-07 10:15:12 UTC
+1 Support for this.

I am not color blind per se, but I have bad eyesight and find it sometims hard to discern the new background colors, because they blend in the surroundings.

Accessibility is a very important topic and should not be even a topic of discussions but a matter of course. Especially if CCP hat designers overhauling the system, this would have been a good time to consider this. When they introduced the new neocom icons they claimed to have vision impairments in mind. The same should be the case for the overview/bracket icons.

I like the new icons themselves, but how they handle subtle color backgrounds and gradients is not good.
smokeAjoint
Catch And Release Privateering
#86 - 2015-06-07 11:33:20 UTC
+1

** legalize it**
Jenshae Chiroptera
#87 - 2015-06-07 15:37:29 UTC
Darth Terona wrote:
You've managed to shoot 7000 dying ships.. Not 7000 kills
... ummm ... no.
The number of times that we have had our blue fleet on one side of a gate and a red waiting on the other then the message comes through, "Sbrodor wiped them out" .... yeah.
If I were ever going to attack Providence, I would watch list him and any alts. His bomber runs are devastating.
Maybe you think that bombers do only pick off ships already dying because you and a few friends dropped bombs near some and got lucky.
Maybe you flew bombers like I have done (really, really, really, extremely badly) but let me assure you that where you might have heard a few drunks hammering out some melodies in a pub on an out of tune piano; Sbrodor is the maestro of bombs.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#88 - 2015-06-07 17:01:35 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
... If you are pvping, couldn't you just set up your overview to get rid of all green, blu and purple, and just keep orange, red and neut? then basically anything on the overview you shoot? ...
Bombers need to see where to blues are in relation to the reds.
(So do logi pilots and anti-tackle)



thuis is true, couldn;y you just change the back ground color of blues and reds though? but meh, that makes sense

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#89 - 2015-06-07 17:06:59 UTC
So my question of "what really has changed that made it harder then before" still stands, the icons colors are the same, i assume you tweeked your overview for years before the new icons and had no issues (or some isuses you adjusted too, idk) so whats the difference exactly?

honesty just trying to understand, it would be like me trying to explain how due o my light sensitivity, a slight tweek has caused my eyes to hurt more. By saying "oh the new graphic upgrades are hard to handle." when in reality its due to how they modified the light bouncing off the new models. Point is, icons changed, colors of icons have not... so.. you obviously over came the issue by adjusting your over view, what is the issue now that makes that harder?

Also note, i support making it easier for you, i'm just confused. Icon changing should not effect color blindness, however, chaning icon colors and options would. AFAIK.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#90 - 2015-06-07 17:20:46 UTC
DaReaper: That's the problem. A colorblind person can't really explain because we just dont know what's normal with some colors. A change of icons can make it less clear with certain colors used or even with most for a colorblind person. You yourself give the example of light sensitivity. You can try to explain how things are different and make your eyes hurt, but a "normal" person wont ever get that because they dont experience it themselves.

In my case colors just blend and dont stand out, if i see a green field, i'll generally know its green (if its a well defined green for me), if i see a red field, the same, if i see a blue field, again the same, but put them next to eachother and let me look at the center where they come together, and it'll blend in together and i wont be able to say: this color ends here, and the other starts there. Icons do change the defined area's for example, and can make it blend together. I had less issues before the changes too, but the issue was still there.

CCP really needs to get some colorblind persons on staff or use simulations, so they can actually design their UI so colorblind people can see things clearly. (When i started, i spent several hours tweaking the UI colors, so i could see normally, now those options are no longer there, and colorblind people are reporting more issues. This is a big problem)
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#91 - 2015-06-07 17:51:59 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
DaReaper: That's the problem. A colorblind person can't really explain because we just dont know what's normal with some colors. A change of icons can make it less clear with certain colors used or even with most for a colorblind person. You yourself give the example of light sensitivity. You can try to explain how things are different and make your eyes hurt, but a "normal" person wont ever get that because they dont experience it themselves.

In my case colors just blend and dont stand out, if i see a green field, i'll generally know its green (if its a well defined green for me), if i see a red field, the same, if i see a blue field, again the same, but put them next to eachother and let me look at the center where they come together, and it'll blend in together and i wont be able to say: this color ends here, and the other starts there. Icons do change the defined area's for example, and can make it blend together. I had less issues before the changes too, but the issue was still there.

CCP really needs to get some colorblind persons on staff or use simulations, so they can actually design their UI so colorblind people can see things clearly. (When i started, i spent several hours tweaking the UI colors, so i could see normally, now those options are no longer there, and colorblind people are reporting more issues. This is a big problem)



Ah see this helps me understand, thank you.

So +1

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2015-06-07 17:57:58 UTC
Just give us custum icons & colours & UI. Then we don't have a problem.. Wake up CCP P

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"
Eanok
POS Party
Ember Sands
#93 - 2015-06-07 23:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eanok
I see no reason at all why they couldn't have left an option to use old icons. It was change, just for the sake of change. Some filler for the feature list on the game update....
Syna Anima
SYNDAX CORPORATION
#94 - 2015-06-08 06:28:41 UTC
+1

CCP can never implement something properly... maybe also submit a petition in game.

★ Join us today! ★
Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2015-06-08 08:30:55 UTC
the gm in petition tell me to open a topic here.

at moment a couple of csm i'm in contact.
Verlyn
Windhau
#96 - 2015-06-08 11:15:45 UTC
Well OP, Im glad the matter seems to be taken seriously, well done ;)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2015-06-08 11:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kitty Bear wrote:
its a downside to being a member of a small demographic within a niche game

just like scanning is largely off-limits to me


you can try to raise ccp's awareness of the problem
through the csm & feedback
whether they can do anything is a different matter

Even with that constraint within a constraint, statistically speaking we're still looking at something on the order of 30,000 accounts affected, so it's still a sizeable bunch of people who have to suffer from CCP's move towards less options and less accessibility over the last couple of years.

…and the choice of “suffer from” in this case is in a medical sense — even those of us who aren't actively hindered by the changes could still make good use of the abilities such considerations would open up. I've lost count of how many UI options have been outright removed for no apparent reason, and while I don't exactly suffer for it, they've all become annoyances that really have no reason to exist.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#98 - 2015-06-08 15:50:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
... they've all become annoyances that really have no reason to exist.
Probably development time and maintaining that they keep working or something like that.
I feel that someone is leaping on board with the "brilliant" ideas in development planning as fast as they are put forward.

( I am surprised your post hasn't been grabbed as a load of whining and been repeatedly told that you will get used to it or you should quit. Blink )

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Lilliana Stelles
#99 - 2015-06-08 15:59:10 UTC
+1

Eve has always been a very accessible game, because it doesn't require much twitchy combat. You can easily play with one hand, if deaf, etc.

I'm not a fan of that changing; the UI should continue to be developed with this in mind.

Not a forum alt. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2015-06-08 16:42:32 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Probably development time and maintaining that they keep working or something like that.
I feel that someone is leaping on board with the "brilliant" ideas in development planning as fast as they are put forward.

In some cases, I might believe that, but for most of them, the explanation why it's hard to maintain would have to be spectacularly good to not come off as absolute nonsense.

How hard is it to maintain a setting for snapping distance, rather than have it not-actually-hard-coded?
How hard is it to maintain a setting for cross-hairs?
How hard is it to maintain a setting for spinning the ship?

I've long since held the suspicion that these tiny details, to say nothing of big ones like what would be needed for accessibility, have been unceremoniously dumped simply because the devs can't fit them on the settings screen and no other reason. The game has a fsckton of settings for UI and (especially) the overview that it will correctly read and interpret, but which are not exposed to the player — some of it can be hacked into the relevant settings files by hand, others are in some incomprehensible format that would require a special utility to work. Either way, EVE has a severe and inexplicable case of settings-phobia that needs to be overcome for the benefit of everyone.