Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The ability to run away and hide is in no way a win for the PvE pilot. The PvE pilot's goal is to play PvE content. As soon as you showed up his ability to do that was destroyed until you went away. From his perspective you won before an engagement even began. He had no realistic way of defeating you regardless of what ship you brought, because PvE content depends on tanking fairly hefty levels of sustained DPS for extended periods of time. Most PvE builds involve being cap stable, and most of those fits are so close to the edge of cap stable that a single small neut will break it. This is not a choice the PvE pilot is making, this is simply what it requires to be able to sit in that space and play that content.

The PvE pilot isn't using all that so called advantage to beat you. He is simply taking the lesser loss by avoiding the engagement. He lost the same thing you did reaching that point: Time. Except he didn't choose to lose it, you took it from him. If either of you can call that a win, it's you. Then there is the added bonus of if he wasn't watching things constantly for a hostile, hours on end, and you manage to catch and pop him, and then even better get his Pod too.

What you are asking is unreasonable and unbalanced. It was then, it would be now.

You deserve to be at the same risk as your target. You deserve to be hunted for your shiny hull. You deserve to have your choices constrained by the environment you wish to hunt in. That is balance. The rules are the same on either side, and the risk is still greater for your target because even with all your whining you still are pointing out your target has more valuable assets in space. Not only that, but you still cost him time just by showing up, because a smart PvE pilot isn't depending on the environment to save him, because people still get ganked all the time, they just apparently do it better than you.

You do not deserve to be entertained at your targets expense. You have to earn that right, and part of that is paying out for a ship that can get the job done and putting your own sweet ISK at risk just like your target does when he goes out. Except that your ship will still cost less, you still have all the intel you need on your target because you know what he's fighting and therefore his tank and damage type.

[quoe=Mike Voidstar]The ability to run away and hide is in no way a win for the PvE pilot. The PvE pilot's goal is to play PvE content. As soon as you showed up his ability to do that was destroyed until you went away. From his perspective you won before an engagement even began. He had no realistic way of defeating you regardless of what ship you brought, because PvE content depends on tanking fairly hefty levels of sustained DPS for extended periods of time. Most PvE builds involve being cap stable, and most of those fits are so close to the edge of cap stable that a single small neut will break it. This is not a choice the PvE pilot is making, this is simply what it requires to be able to sit in that space and play that content.[/quote]
I think you run out of arguments, what sort of one is this? Ratter want safety so a broken NPC mechanics protecting them from PvP and a dead PvP profession is OK trade off for it?

[quoe=Mike Voidstar]
The PvE pilot isn't using all that so called advantage to beat you. He is simply taking the lesser loss by avoiding the engagement. He lost the same thing you did reaching that point: Time. [/quote]
no, he undocks, warps into haven and starts ratting, then docks up or warps to POS once hostile next door gets reported.

[qute=Mike Voidstar]
Except he didn't choose to lose it, you took it from him. If either of you can call that a win, it's you. Then there is the added bonus of if he wasn't watching things constantly for a hostile, hours on end, and you manage to catch and pop him, and then even better get his Pod too.[/quote]
what? If you take a break, you safe up. I think you are running out of arguments.


no, its not.


no, he isnt at same risk. He's in a friendly space surrounded by blues. The hunter isnt.
Unless you want to get rid of a whole PvP branch threatening your ISK farming habits, you should compensate the risk. The risk compensation was done by old NPC AI, allowing him to field a survivable, specialized ship into deep enemy space and still have some rewards. That ins no more, solo hunting is dead.


Yes, people still do it in gangs, yes, which is ofc less frequent because its people who always did it in gangs, they are not that severely affected by NPC changes - it totally screwed solo guys, who cant do it anymore.


well, this is a MMO and eve, where the only PvP fun comes from targets expense, why is this new for you?
You repeat yourself, I already told you why the "proper ship" is not viable and does not fit the requirements for activity in question and the fact that neither you nor any other carebear here can show me someone still hunting using that "proper tool", confirms my claims.

my primary argument always was that solo roams are dead due to broken NPC aggro. I provided you reasons why its dead.
Also NPC, which protect the ratter are very far from making sense, so even on that level you are failing at logics, neither does it make sense from the gameplay perspective nor lore.


Sure it does. Risk is defined as chance of event multiplied by the value of damage. The value of your ship might be somewhat higher, the chance of being blown up in blue space is however far lower than the other way around.

Otherwise ratters would've never bothered undocking in all those 10 years, obviously even with all the evil roamers in paperbag thin ships around, the risk of undocking was still justified and outweighed by rewards in form of ISK payouts - seemed right to me. There were plenty of ratters all over the place, long before they got easy escape module(MJD), speedy ratting cruisers (ishtar), super-tanky marauders, significantly less chance of hotdrop (fattigay) and even environment protecting them from solos (NPC aggro switch).


No. I'm not required to risk more, I'm required to field something completely unsuitable for the job. Go back in thread and read why and stop repeating yourself. The profession is dead, I asked you to prove me otherwise but you ignored it, simply because I'm right.


that does not prove anything assumed you can read and understand.
This thread is not about gankers as whole, it's basically only relevant for solo people.
A cyno guy doesnt care much, his target is long dead before rats even realize he's there. Also is it irrelevant for bigger gangs when the tackler is interceptor and has nbd surviving a couple of seconds until his buddies arrive on scene. Different story.

this will go on dude. They miss their km's where they were not damage top damage dealer and collected the km's where they were just a point/scram entry and some dps. Point/scram optional....sometimes in the old days you got lucky and the rats did this for you even. I've had km's like this. I never looked at these with a sense of pride though. Look at me....I got beat out by a pope and a cardinal damage wise....I am so bad I scare even myself lol.

You could even point out wh's ran like this for years before the change and they argue that too. they will argue no local or t3 use.

Insert well no local in 0.0 arguments (which means these people who won't bring the proper tank will also have to kill a high slot for probes, full time).

Or it breaks down to I don't want to fly a t3/expensive setup other classes. It works, DPS and tank to even take sleepers to solve all their problems, for a few more isk. They want to kill expensive ratting boats for cheaper costs.

Run&Hide is not just a PvE tactic, its normality for PvP too. If you cant kill it - run.
ISK doesnt save you from stupidity, nor should it. If you pimp out PvE boat with officer launchers and what not, exactly knowing your risks - well, then better you not be caught. But kills like that were always rather rare, because those ratters mostly knew very well that ISK spent on PvE wont save them vs. a specialized PvP ship. Occassionally carebears die even in high sec, loosing their 30b ravens to a couple of ganking tornados - stop ranting about this, thats eve.


not "actual assets" - a lie wont become true if you tell it over and over again.

same lie again.
Ofc you think the profession deserved to die, it was obvious from your whole trollspeech - I guess because you were on the receiving end of it.
It was an important risk factor for your ISK farming machine, now its gone - I cant imagine what CCP was thinking, they tried to limit ISK faucets for years but in same time they also removed risks from farmers, I dont quite get it.

so then they could fix it pretty easily then, to not swap aggro to neutral ships.


people adapted, yes, to using cynos and black ops drops even more. or roaming in gangs. This thread however isnt about.
NPC change removed a whole bunch of content for solo guys for no real reason.


the profession of solo roam didnt die? May I ask for a proof again? Show me that guy. But guess what, you'll simply ignore my request once again, because you're wrong.

[quorretgtgrdtte=Mike Voidstar]
People making money has never been a problem that needed balancing with grief tactics and ganking. The content they were using was meant to drive conflict between players. EVE prides itself on big battles, not cheap kills.[/quote]
you're so wrong, so wrong. cheap kills are the oxygen of eve, just check the killboard and you'll see that like 80% of all kills are like 50 vs. 1.


regardless if you think its needed or not, hunting PvEers has a 10 years long history and was a huge content share for stuff you could to solo in 0.0. There isnt much of it btw, this big one got removed.


this claim again. post evidence.

no evidence was posted earlier, and I told a reason why I discarded it. But once again, you ignore parts of posting, you dont like - this is your style.

a ship which does not project aggro vs. rats, you know the little red timer in upper left edge of the screen, to tell one example.


so then, you shouldnt be able to rat solo, right? Oh noes, ratting ofc is something completely different and should be done solo, am I right?
Why didnt you tell from the start on your honest opinion that you shouldnt be able to kill ratter solo? Instead, you wasted your time on tons and pages of words of excuses why you think changed NPC aggro is fair.


plain trolling.

red color doesnt mean anything. Seekers are red too, yet they dont agress you. Just to show you how wrong your are.
Pre-Retribution rats were red as well, yet they didnt switch aggro. You're wrong again.


not strictly the ratter friends, but generally any of the thousands of people living there. Yes. Thats why noone is willing to do it, thats why the profession is dead. You are not just required to take a heavy and easy to catch gear into hostile territory, in same time you also get most of your chances taken to catch anything because your heavy stuff is simply too slow for the job. But we actually covered this same topic "risk" and how its stacked against the hunter on previous page, looks like you forgot again.


I discounted it because it wasnt just one example, I discouted it because one was with no rat on mail (not in site) and the other was caught in belt. But someone who is actually being able to read would realize it by himself and not bring it up as argument again, after it has been disqualified for very obvious reason. Btw. yeah, 1 wouldnt make a profession anyways, you know why its called "profession" - ist when someone is performing some specific activity for an extended period of time with a certain amount of success. I could link you characters on eve-kill who did it pre-Retribution very well, if you're interested.


ofc you dont care enough about killboards, you sure know a friend of a friend of your cousin, who got ganked once by solo hunter, but are simply too lazy to provide evidence for it, which would finally give a grip to your claims, you trying to argue for 6 pages here - thats something you are not too lazy for..

I'm not arguing for 6 pages.

I'm laughing at your whine for 6 pages.

Your complete lack of a grasp on objectivity is hilarious.

You want what you want, regardless of any other considerations. It's like watching a 4 year old throw a tantrum because he can't have candy.

Yeah, the red crosses in space and the overview means those targets are hostile to you. Grey ones are neutral. That's really, really basic game stuff.

Friends, as in people friendly to you. people in your corp or alliance. Those are the people you fear. The solo ratter isn't really solo. That's how null is intended.

You would discount a signed and sealed document stating you are wrong from the CEO of CCP himself. Your entire argument is sticking fingers in your ears and screaming "YOU HAVE NO PROOF! IT'S NOT FAIR!" at the top of your lungs.

Environment affects all equally. Sorry you don't like that. I suppose when it gets hot outside you complain to god that it's not fair and you should be allowed to be cool while standing in the middle of the desert at high noon while naked.

your opinion again, which we already discussed over 6 pages of this thread, why do you bring it up again, all you need is
going back in thread and read these 6 pages, that all has already been covered - why current NPC mechanics are bad and how they killed entire playstyle.


no, I can and will express my attitude about this topic whenever those threads pop up on forums, I think its my right here and its exactly the reason why this forum exists, no? You are doing the same, so why not me?