Player Features and Ideas Discussion

not going to comment that drivel, mostly made of stating obvious, "dev is infallible" and reiterating on what's been covered in this and the other thread already - but one thing:
If everything what devs do is right, so why had they to change the AI then? I mean back in 2012 old AI must've been right too, since it was made by same devs who are always right and coded everything we had these days on purpose, right? Just to make clear how stupid your post is - under such assumption, you must never question anything they release upon us, players.

Because you should be immune to the environment why?

Because you dont have aggro. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The point isnt even that rats no longer give free dps to you, its that they give the ship that is doing the content a huge advantage. It doesnt matter if its pver vs pvper or if its 2 pvpers fighting, what counts is that the person who is fighting the rats when the fight starts has a advantage, and that that advantage scales in terrrible ways. It punishes small stuff and soloers way way more then it punishes big stuff, a bs or similar doesnt really care, a frig is dead instantly.


Rats swapping instantly doesnt make sense logic wise (enemy of my enemy and so on) it doesnt make sense rp wise and it doesnt even make sense from a gameplay perspective.



The thing is that if i roam in a frigate and i see a cruiser doing a site, its not even a 1v1 which i already would be disadvantaged at due to me beeing a frigate fighting a bigger target, its even worse then that, its the frigate vs the cruiser + the site.

To all those saying things like, the npcs swapping give the pve-er a small chance against you, and those saying things like "just tank up" I would say this: in the circumstances of trying to catch someone running a plex at least, the pvp-er needs to enter system, drop probes, scan the site or ship, warp to the site and then in most cases have to travel between acceleration gates. If the pve-er despite all that time, fails to keep an eye on local, then d-scan first for probes and then for an actual ship and actually allows themselves to get tackled, then they damn well deserve to lose that ship! The small chance that pve-er has against the pvp-er is not small, it's stacked HEAVILY in their favour. Do you not realise how many things need to go right to pull that off? Even the most basically competent player has no reason to ever get tackled in a plex. Any talk of tanking your ship for the plex is equally redundant because courtesy of all those points I just made, the only ship really that has a chance in hell of catching Mr pve, is something small and fast enough to warp and travel from gate to gate such as an interceptor, or in some cases perhaps a recon via cloaking or d-scan immunity. And even that is all for nothing because the sensible player is aligned out and warps the moment they see you on grid. So you can all stop whining about standing a chance against the pvp-er because if you're not ********, they quite literally pose no threat at all and you can warp out and bounce around safes till your aggression timer runs out...

Nothing will change, these rants have been around forever, CCP simply won't change this because were from the other side of game. If we were carebears things would be different, but PVP must be harder and must continue to get harder because that is the desired direction of this game.

It got changed because you use to be able to go in with an Arazu. point and damp them out so much they cant lock anything but the frigs orbiting them, bring in whatever you deemed for that roaming day and just melt them. Once they blew up, you cloaked the arazu, looted with the DPS ship and warped out. There was no challenge in this, there was no "serious PVP"ing about this. Now, you have to take into consideration the activity they are doing before you warp in.

This change was a blessing to PVE'ers, it made it just as risky but also gave them a chance to survive if they have no idea how to use dscan. If it was just a solo small neuting/ecm boat trying to get a free kill with no actual effort.

It also changed it so people would stop AFK/Bot ratting in Ishtars/domis.

Uhm no, it renders you invulnerable to them.

It's completely stupid.

Completely.

CCP in this change was probably eyeing shutting down other scenarios.

See being nice lets have give you exactly what you want. You tackle or use of any negative external effects (i.e.. e-war) rule number 1 in the rat AI is do not shoot him....the enemy of our enemy is our friend.


I will be nice enough to even make this completely overriding. Sort of like Windows group policy management....One explicit deny can override any amount of yes' you may have elsewhere. Why GPO is so much fun...you have to run tools to see where the hell that one deny is that is messing up your whole flow you are trying for. But enough of this tangent.

Back to your new rule, A pvp'er fit with RR accidentally broadcasts some RR to the carebear. Rats will ignore this..he is after all pointing the enemy so a friend. And we have your tackle ='s no attacking place controlling it all. . Wouldn't want our pvp'er getting the full aggro of a santum for a mere few moments of accidental rr use now would we?


So the basics: run tackle (edit. any negative "attacking" external mod) on target, rats ignore you no matter what. This would hurt what ccp was trying to do here for pve control.


Here is how: I bring back the many setups I had in the past when rats used to go for the one ship. They weren't passive ratter/afk domi of doom.

Some were min/max glass cannon rat killers of doom and logi backup. Do the logi just right and the runner needs almost no local tank. Those mods become more useful rat killing mods. Faster rat killing, more isk the result. Also at the time nice isk savers....didn't need the 400 mil shiny tanks to start with.

Your idea my logi needs to run only one negative external mod to "attack" the runner and he is ignored. I could be nice to you say I will run point. I control the point so not really like it matters. See local spike, turn off point, gtfo. I could also be a **** and say I would run the weakest totally incorrect racial ecm against my runner. So...I am ignored broadcasting the wrong ecm that will never work. Or I'd td my missile chuckers.

See the trend...the enemy of my enemy based on well they are "attacking" the ratter exception is failing here.....hard. I am attacking...but not to any good effect really.


You even make this setup even easier for me. in the past in the good ole days on new waves there was always the chance my logi (or orca, used them too for refs and salvage while I killed rats to urn candle at both ends) will get the new aggro. Solution to this was new waves ='d backup warp out of alt, runner re-aggro's room, alt warp's back in. Your scheme....I don't even have this step anymore. Thank you for the minute or so saved. And the few less key strokes to change clients. Hell get the logi permarun with tackle/ecm and I don't have to look at the client till its time to change rooms or done the pve event really.


This is why ccp emulated heavily sleeper AI. Hell its probably why ccp never put this in the sleeper AI to begin with. As we all know damn well when only they had it if sleep AI said oh he is tackling so we can ignore the logi....we know WH'ers would have been all over that. As well....its keeping the logi's alive in their site farming that can be the most fun part. Point ='s rat immunity....wh;ers would have used that loophole hard and fast.

I'd rather have an official CCP response on this than the circlejerking trolls and meaningless conflict that is happening now. What we have now is 12 pages of people using the same arguments on eachother.