Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Use your common sense.

You warp into an area with a whole lot of environmental damage flying around, and want to be immune to it while your target is not.

I understand you don't like that view because it would make your ganking easier if you didn't have to be prepared to survive the space you are in, but that's how it is.

This whole thing is because some 'pirates' want to use cheap ships to kill expensive ships deep in enemy territory. It was a poor mechanic when it worked that way, and it was changed for a reason. The agro won't stay with you, you don't have to tank it forever unless you stay to kill the rats too. The behavior of the AI is well known, it's not like there is a special rule just to catch 'pirates' in particular.

Of more impact, the Devs expressed their views on it.

All of this was brought up ad nauseum for years when it was the other way around. It hit fever pitch when the change was announced--- few were in favor because it killed PvE drone boats as well.

They did it anyway, and everybody gets to adapt.

If the problem really was that a fast and nimble ship with the proper tank is needed to do this, a proposal for a new form of marauder, or possibly an alternate bastion module for current marauders that made them capable of getting around like the ships you once used but still cost similar to your target ships and were capable of surviving in the same space.

I doubt that such a ship would be acceptable to the sorts of people that enjoy the gankbear lifestyle though---the pricetag is far to high and they don't like to risk their personal assets anymore than anyone else.

I asked you for your dev source. Would you please provide a link to what they said?
IIRC it was a pure pve thing with no focus on PvP aspects, as they attempted to fix easy complex completion using tank ships.

"Gankbear playstyle", there is nothing wrong with it. Guerilla warfare was always part of the game since eve existing and is needed for proper risk projection to ISK farmers. You can easy farm ISK, why should it be that hard for the opposite force to disrupt your activity??

Whole PvP playstyle has gone thanks to that change, I cant imagine it was part of CCP's plan when they implemented it.



evident for what? Devs push through a lot of stupid changes, so doesnt say anything.

why not? The effort and work wasnt in taking down the target but to get a grab on him, against all the massive home, defense and intel advantage he had. It was balanced pretty well.


theoretically you still can but practically noone longer bothers, because the risk and effort doesnt justify the little success resulting from it anymore. You wouldnt bring a slow, tanked and dps-heavy ship in same time as needed nowadays into deep enemy territory because of virtually non-existant chance of success while taking huge risk of loosing it easily.
Thats why its non-existant play style anymore.



ah good you have no source.

If I remember correctly, not much of pvp complaints were raised during discussion, here and there someone, so I believe it could went pretty much under the radar very well.

The fact that something went through doesnt mean anything and not self evident at all. Stupid changes going through all the time, thats usual business for CCP.

not complaining about home advantage, just saying it wasnt easy at all.


yes people get ganked all the time, out of question. This thread is however about a certain playstyle which made impossible exactly for the reason you are bringing up here. You need heavy gear which is basically not available or not realistically fiedable in deep enemy terrotory. At least I dont see that sort of kills anymore, now you strictly need an afk cyno cloaker and/or gang of friends nearby for projecting any kind of threat. Solo roams are dead, which is supersad IMO and took out a lot of heat from eve.

You now have mobile depot and can refit, cloaks are trivial to fit on anything combat worthy... You can get to where you need to go, strike and get out... you just can't do it trivially in a ship worth less than a dirty diaper.

They don't do it because they are as risk adverse, if not more, than the target they are hunting.

It can be done, just not without risking somewhere between half to a third of the resources your target does. Previously it could be done by newbie wages in throw away ships---IE, no actual risk of any note.

What is so special about it that it needs to be effectively subsidized to the point that you can do it for practically free?

It was radically unbalanced before, to the detriment of the game and it's reputation for having one of the most toxic playerbases. Changes that make the game fun for everyone instead of just half are a good thing.

We do not need a link to prove this point, all you have to do is log in and go hunting ratters and the evidence of how CCP(and by default the devs) have decided this situation should work is right there for you to see in your damage indicators.

And the old system was broken in favor of the ganklers, that you are not willing to admit that simply proves your prejudice on this matter. But just in case you are that blind let's review/.

Old AI
Rats attack the first person in the pocket, or the person shooting them and never switch aggro. IE they are always shooting the ratter leaving the ganker free to fit his ship however he wants and roam about the pocket doing whatever he wants never having to worry about taking aggro from the rats. The result of this system is that the rats are ALWAYS serving as free DPS and that was not balanced, in fact it gave all of the advantage to the gankers.

Current AI
Rats attack according to a well understood set of conditions, well at least they are understood by most of us.
Rats can, will and often do change primary depending on the conditions in the site at any given moment.
Rats attack any and ALL ships in the pocket based on these changing conditions.
Net affect - ALL players and ALL ships that enter the site must take into account the aggro from the rats and fit accordingly, while it may not be the perfect system it is considerably closer to balanced than the old AI.

But the rats primary ships using E-War.
Yes they do and that is understood by almost everyone and perhaps there is a lesson in that for you as well.
Besides that since the devs at CCP wrote the AI logic dictates that this situation is working as intended.

But that is unfair since we gankers need to fit point so we are always primary.
Yes it does move you high on the list of targets to be primary, again since CCP wrote the AI logic dictates that it is working as intended.

I find the irony in all of this particularly hysterical.
But I am helping the rats by killing the ratterthey should not attack me. This is just the first of your errors in judgement here. The rats are not your friends and they are not the ratters enemy. The rats hate everyone equally based on a set of conditions programmed by the devs at CCP.

Bottom line here is this.
Rat AI was programmed by the devs at CCP.
Rat AI hates E-War often making ships using it primary targets.
Logic dictates here that this is acting as CCP intended.
Logic also dictates that if you want to attack ratters AND minimize your risk of drawing aggro then DO NOT USE E-War.
Cannot kill ratter without using E-War then tank up and fly a proper ship for the task at hand.

Here is another wild and crazy thought.
Perhaps CCP wrote the AI this way as a means of limiting the kill board cowboys and their easy kills of ratters and mission runners. Perhaps it is an attempt to force you lazy "elitel PvP" players into actually having to fight someone in a ship and fit that is intended to fight PvP battles.
Oh and the answer is no, ratters and mission runners cannot fly PvP fits it simply does not work in the higher level ratting sites and missions. Want that to change then lobby CCP for changes to these sites.