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PvE Cruise Rattlesnake - King of DPS...or is it?
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Yolli Sly
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-06-05 10:51:11 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
Yolli Sly wrote:
Or just use Rattle as a brawler as hi is.

Using RHML you will get more "paper" damage, not to mention the applied one. Even if we take into account reload time.


It's perfectly viable but less effective when using Sentries as not always will rats be in range of both your weapon systems. So you can move forward and then drop sentries or... what I've been considering is just roll balls deep with the Gecko/Heavy drones and lay waste to all with RHML on my way to the objective/gate. That 35 second reload just annoys me though.

It's something to consider.





Try this.

Rattlesnake (brawler):
Low:
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Internal Force Field Array I

Middle:
LMJD
100 MWD II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large (Medium) Shield Buster II

High:
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Rigs:
2xLarge Core Defense Field Purger II
1xLarge Core Defense Field Extender II

Drone Bay:
Gecko
2xCaldari Navy Warden
2xFederation Navy Garde
5xHobgoblin II

Fury/Navy Inferno/Scourge Heavy Missile.

The distance to the rats in most lvl 4 missions are between 30-60 km so everithing is in range. Use MJD to jump "in to" not "from" if range is 90-120 km.

If you are willing to spend about 1,5 bill for hull and some faction modules, you will get comfortable, unstoppable, ungankable, effective mission runner.
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-06-05 11:11:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Chan
Yolli Sly wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:
Yolli Sly wrote:
Or just use Rattle as a brawler as hi is.

Using RHML you will get more "paper" damage, not to mention the applied one. Even if we take into account reload time.


It's perfectly viable but less effective when using Sentries as not always will rats be in range of both your weapon systems. So you can move forward and then drop sentries or... what I've been considering is just roll balls deep with the Gecko/Heavy drones and lay waste to all with RHML on my way to the objective/gate. That 35 second reload just annoys me though.

It's something to consider.





Try this.

Rattlesnake (brawler):
Low:
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Internal Force Field Array I

Middle:
LMJD
500 MWD II - fixed it for you lol
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large (Medium) Shield Buster II

High:
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor I

Rigs:
2xLarge Core Defense Field Purger II
1xLarge Core Defense Field Extender II

Drone Bay:
Gecko
2xCaldari Navy Warden
2xFederation Navy Garde
5xHobgoblin II

Fury/Navy Inferno/Scourge Heavy Missile.

The distance to the rats in most lvl 4 missions are between 30-60 km so everithing is in range. Use MJD to jump "in to" not "from" if range is 90-120 km.

If you are willing to spend about 1,5 bill for hull and some faction modules, you will get comfortable, unstoppable, ungankable, effective mission runner.


Facerolling missions was never an issue for me or the point of this thread. Also this fit will crumple in some missions, particularily for the Gallente Epic Arc. Note I said crumple and not pop. I'm sure you could do it, just with a warp out or two.

Speaking of your fit why the faction drones? Tech 2 drones already have cruiser level ehp from the snake's bonus. Just curious why the trade off of 8%(10% if your crazy/dedicated and have racial drone spec'd to 5) to have them live longer. I'm referring to the faction sentries, Gecko is a special case for the Snake due to limited Bandwidth/Bay. I carry 2 EM and 2 Kin sentries to hit all resist holes(shooting into secondary is fine) along with the Gecko.

Personally I wouldn't bother with those 5 lights as they're unbonused. Gecko has more then enough tracking to take down frigates, especially when that frigate is chasing after you and moving in a straight line.

I made this thread because I had just finished making a thread about Golem needing 4 painters to apply well to frigates and thought I'd look to see how my old buddy the snake held up. It held up fine, I just decided to stop using furies on it because of poor application with them.

Just for kicks I toyed with a RHML fit:
[Rattlesnake, cheap PvE]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Drone Navigation Computer II
100MN Afterburner II
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II

Berserker II x2 - Decent 2925 m/s, 1.108 tracking(frigates beware)
Praetor II x2 - A decent 2691 m/s, 0.983 tracking
Ogre II x2 - A blistering 1950 m/s Roll, 0.702 tracking

Estimated price tag: 589 million
1662 DPS/1367 with reload(no implants just level 5)
Cap lasts for 4m 28s boosting, hardeners and tracking link
3m 1s with Burners + boosting
Tanks 465 ehp/s at the low end with Blood Raiders to 659 ehp/s vs Angel.

That was just a quick fit. I'd probably bling the tank more and fit Warp speed rigs. It's something I'll keep an eye on in the future. Eitherway, that's solid performance for that price point.
Yolli Sly
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-06-05 12:18:20 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
Yolli Sly wrote:
[quote=Amanda Chan][quote=Yolli Sly]Or just use Rattle as a brawler as hi is.

Using RHML you will get more "paper" damage, not to mention the applied one. Even if we take into account reload time.


Facerolling missions was never an issue for me or the point of this thread. Also this fit will crumple in some missions, particularily for the Gallente Epic Arc. Note I said crumple and not pop. I'm sure you could do it, just with a warp out or two.

Speaking of your fit why the faction drones? Tech 2 drones already have cruiser level ehp from the snake's bonus. Just curious why the trade off of 8%(10% if your crazy/dedicated and have racial drone spec'd to 5) to have them live longer. I'm referring to the faction sentries, Gecko is a special case for the Snake due to limited Bandwidth/Bay. I carry 2 EM and 2 Kin sentries to hit all resist holes(shooting into secondary is fine) along with the Gecko.

Personally I wouldn't bother with those 5 lights as they're unbonused. Gecko has more then enough tracking to take down frigates, especially when that frigate is chasing after you and moving in a straight line.

I made this thread because I had just finished making a thread about Golem needing 4 painters to apply well to frigates and thought I'd look to see how my old buddy the snake held up. It held up fine, I just decided to stop using furies on it because of poor application with them.




I did not say that fit is most, best, world`s fit ever. I said - it is comfortable and efective fit.

You are missing somthing very important when it comes to Rattle (and Gila and Worm). This ships are designed not to be the most damage ships ih their class (actually they are), but to be best friends of novice in EVE. Even whith only lvl 1 skil, for example lvl 1 Heavy Missile, you will do almost same (applied) dmg with standard missile as if you use Furies. Same with (faction) drones and light/cruise missiles.

Yes yor're right. In long, long run (lvl 5 centry and lvl 5 specialization) you will get 14% more damage if use Tech II drones, but you will lose about 40% defense. The choice is yours.

As regards to Geko and light drones - just try. You will be surprised haw well they do they work compared to Geko.

I am 7,5 mill skil points pilot and I do lvl 4 missions for tree monts. With this fit.

And I am done with missioning. I have ~ +8.3 stadings with Caldari State, +8,5 to +10 standings with four corporations (with jump clone services), I saved ~2 bill ISK. I am ready to do something else. Thanks to Gila and Rattle.

Haw I said - the choice is yours.

No offence. Fly in save.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#24 - 2015-06-05 14:30:46 UTC
Sperno Thanato wrote:
Why not just fit an mjd for the blockade instead of the 9-10 holes and rigs you are wasting... A Domi will do in 15 moins what your uber passive rattler will do in 25... uh....


No dummy, I said you can do with the Rattlesnake, not you have to.

It is facinating how people cannot read and making uneducated assumptions.

DON'T

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#25 - 2015-06-06 02:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Amanda Chan wrote:
Sperno Thanato wrote:

@OP: Your statement about Rattler beinf sub cap dps king... (a) Vindicator (a lot more) (b) Typhoon fleet Issue (believe it or not better application). Check them out if dps output is your concern...


Please note I said:
Amanda Chan wrote:

"So it's settled, the Rattlesnake is still the King of subcapital dps. Paper/Application that is, blah blah guns apply instantly yadda yadda yadda.


Sure blaster vindi can do in the neighborhood of 1.7k dps at what ...

An incursion vindi does a hell of a lot more than 1.7k dps - upto 2.2k (so about 150% of an RS) before looking at officer mods or polarised shenanigans which is why your statement that an RS being the on paper highest dps sub cap is complete cobblers. Yes vindi does that only out to web range but that's its niche and why it is the actual on paper highest dps sub cap.

For L4s meh, rather fly a machariel or a marauder :)

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Portiko
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-06-06 10:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Portiko
Yolli Sly wrote:
Or just use Rattle as a brawler as hi is.

Using RHML you will get more "paper" damage, not to mention the applied one. Even if we take into account reload time.

So I guess with RHML, you'd hit BS rats first with the gecko plus missiles, then allow your gecko to kill all the smaller stuff while your missiles reload? That seems like the most efficient method to using RHMLs to me.

SDPPenter link description here

Send dick pics please...
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-06-06 10:58:27 UTC
Portiko wrote:
Yolli Sly wrote:

So I guess with RHML, you'd hit BS rats first with the gecko plus missiles, then allow your gecko to kill all the smaller stuff while your missiles reload? That seems like the most efficient method to using RHMLs to me.


Yes and no. Knocking out the BS first is a definate bonus, especially if you're trading blows. However, when you get down to 4-5 missiles left in the clip, I wouldn't start on a new BS but instead focus taking out a few frigs or cruisers.

During the lengthy 35 second reload a BS can get a couple decent reps in by killing a few frigs or cruisers you enforce dead rats do no dps...nor rep themselves =D
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-06-06 14:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Amanda Chan wrote:
Sperno Thanato wrote:

@OP: Your statement about Rattler beinf sub cap dps king... (a) Vindicator (a lot more) (b) Typhoon fleet Issue (believe it or not better application). Check them out if dps output is your concern...


Please note I said:
Amanda Chan wrote:

"So it's settled, the Rattlesnake is still the King of subcapital dps. Paper/Application that is, blah blah guns apply instantly yadda yadda yadda.


Sure blaster vindi can do in the neighborhood of 1.7k dps at what ...10% of the range? Your ~1.7k dps at 9 optimal/11 fall off with void or ~1.2k at 17 optimal/30 fall off with Null vs Rattle's ~1.4k dps applyable out to 84 km(1/2 of it is delayed from missiles) and ~700 to 93.75km(lock range without modules). Outside of niche uses in Incursions, sitting on top of rats spawns in anoms, etc the Vindicator can't compete due to it having to travel to apply it's beastly dps. As soon as the Rattlesnake lands on grid 95% of the time you can start apply dps right away. The other 5% you gotta putter 10km or so to get into lockrange so you can apply that dps vs the 90km the Vindi would have to travel(probably less because your stern look would draw the rats attention and they would meet you half way).

TFI applies missile damage better but so does the CNR/Golem. However, those three are left behind when you add in drone damage from the snake.

DPS is only part the equation. There's a reason the Machariel is considered the king of level 4s. It's not because of it's dps, because most of the time you'll be in fall off which is a reduction down to 50% dps(god forbid double falloff). It's a combination of dps, mobility(a BS that can keep pace and even move faster then some cruisers) and warp speed.

There's many things when looking at mission boats. Here's my top 2 priorities

1) Looks. You look good you feel good. You feel good, you don't hate your life while grinding standings/make some iskies.

2) Ease of use. Sure cruise missiles have travel time but they also don't often have to deal with changing ammo types based off range. Usually target size. With guns, I focus on small targets first before they get under my guns. With missiles, I focus on bigger targets so they deal less damage and then deal with the small targets. Other missiles like Torpdoes...yeah....that's a whole other bag of worms I'm not getting into.



Tfi does not have an application bonus so i dont know what you mean. Dont confuse the phoon with the tfi.

Edit: directed at sperno i guess.
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