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In-game mechanics for everything (SRP)
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LT Alter
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#21 - 2015-06-08 09:46:48 UTC
The problem is not that people are not forced to use supers, it is that everyone else is using them. Similarly, the problem is not that we do not have an in game SRP system, it is that everyone who wants one has one, and nobody else needs it.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2015-06-08 12:05:11 UTC
Tian Toralen wrote:

Wrong. I said (first post) the FC has to fill up that form at the end of the fleet, and he has all the fleet members, and he knows what's going on. He should. The other corp members - if they care about the corp will point out - "look that guy is in a Drake in our Domi fleet". Someone could equip a ship scanner if it's really necessary. Or - the list the FC gets will also include all losses, with their fits. And the FC will delete him from his form, and he will not get SRP.

The problem is simple - a corporation, or alliance wants to give ISK to it's members, for PVP activities that make the corporation stronger. This is something lots of corps do, it's a simple thing. This is why CCP should devote resources (Elenahina). I don't care if there are corps with no SRP, nobody is obliging any corp to have SRP. Read again my first post.

Want to see the recent mail sent to my corp? Here it is, nothing complicated:

~snip~



So, given that your system is a hell of a lot more effort intensive for the FC than the current out of game systems (used by the alliances I have experience with at any rate, I'm taking those as a standard as they're just 'paste your killmail, select some stuff from a dropdown, push buttan' forms, even simpler than yours appears to be), why would anyone use the in game tool over what they already have?

And, given that nothing you have said addresses most of the issues I had with your system, namely bonus payouts, skill requirements, fitting standards (unless you're willing to wade through potentially hundreds of KMs immediately after you just got done welping a fleet...), multiple alliances in one fleet, and the minor detail that you'd be spending more time on bureaucracy than on actually leading your fleet, why would anyone use your system?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-06-08 12:30:43 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
why would anyone use your system?


I've been trying to get an answer to the why question for several posts now. I assume he just doesn't have a good reason besides "It's what I want." Which is fine, as a reason, but it's not very compelling to anyone else.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-06-08 12:59:08 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:



So, given that your system is a hell of a lot more effort intensive for the FC than the current out of game systems (used by the alliances I have experience with at any rate, I'm taking those as a standard as they're just 'paste your killmail, select some stuff from a dropdown, push buttan' forms, even simpler than yours appears to be), why would anyone use the in game tool over what they already have?

And, given that nothing you have said addresses most of the issues I had with your system, namely bonus payouts, skill requirements, fitting standards (unless you're willing to wade through potentially hundreds of KMs immediately after you just got done welping a fleet...), multiple alliances in one fleet, and the minor detail that you'd be spending more time on bureaucracy than on actually leading your fleet, why would anyone use your system?


For alliance that already have the tools working it's indeed useless as a in-game implementation would proably never be as good as what is done out of game.

What I see as possible tho is if the corp or alliance (CCP's choice really) had a spot where you can input your in-game KM links which is submitted to a director with a specific role who can approve or decline the loss which get paid from a specific wallet. If any more time can be invested into it, I'd suggest a % slider to choose how much is paid back so you don't have to fully cover everything to use the system. Instead of an out of game forum post for the rules, you make a corp bulletin with the rules.

It's crude and not as good at doing exactly what you might want but it would get the ball rolling I think. If CCP was to do it, it really has to be simple to use. KM link, push buttan and done.

I don't think it's necessary but if it ever gets done, they really have to keep it simple. There is no point to implement a tool to make life of some corp easier by not needing them to develop all the tools and make it a huge hassle to use.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2015-06-08 15:03:22 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:



So, given that your system is a hell of a lot more effort intensive for the FC than the current out of game systems (used by the alliances I have experience with at any rate, I'm taking those as a standard as they're just 'paste your killmail, select some stuff from a dropdown, push buttan' forms, even simpler than yours appears to be), why would anyone use the in game tool over what they already have?

And, given that nothing you have said addresses most of the issues I had with your system, namely bonus payouts, skill requirements, fitting standards (unless you're willing to wade through potentially hundreds of KMs immediately after you just got done welping a fleet...), multiple alliances in one fleet, and the minor detail that you'd be spending more time on bureaucracy than on actually leading your fleet, why would anyone use your system?


For alliance that already have the tools working it's indeed useless as a in-game implementation would proably never be as good as what is done out of game.

What I see as possible tho is if the corp or alliance (CCP's choice really) had a spot where you can input your in-game KM links which is submitted to a director with a specific role who can approve or decline the loss which get paid from a specific wallet. If any more time can be invested into it, I'd suggest a % slider to choose how much is paid back so you don't have to fully cover everything to use the system. Instead of an out of game forum post for the rules, you make a corp bulletin with the rules.

It's crude and not as good at doing exactly what you might want but it would get the ball rolling I think. If CCP was to do it, it really has to be simple to use. KM link, push buttan and done.

I don't think it's necessary but if it ever gets done, they really have to keep it simple. There is no point to implement a tool to make life of some corp easier by not needing them to develop all the tools and make it a huge hassle to use.


Paste your kill link into an evemail, send it to the reimbursement guy, he looks at it and sends you the ISK.

Wouldn't need new roles, new mechanics or anything, and for a small group, that'd work fine. Either that or the old classic 'post in a thread on the alliance/corp/whatever forums' if setting up the fancy google docs people use nowadays is hard (I have no idea if it is or not)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-06-08 16:32:03 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:



So, given that your system is a hell of a lot more effort intensive for the FC than the current out of game systems (used by the alliances I have experience with at any rate, I'm taking those as a standard as they're just 'paste your killmail, select some stuff from a dropdown, push buttan' forms, even simpler than yours appears to be), why would anyone use the in game tool over what they already have?

And, given that nothing you have said addresses most of the issues I had with your system, namely bonus payouts, skill requirements, fitting standards (unless you're willing to wade through potentially hundreds of KMs immediately after you just got done welping a fleet...), multiple alliances in one fleet, and the minor detail that you'd be spending more time on bureaucracy than on actually leading your fleet, why would anyone use your system?


For alliance that already have the tools working it's indeed useless as a in-game implementation would proably never be as good as what is done out of game.

What I see as possible tho is if the corp or alliance (CCP's choice really) had a spot where you can input your in-game KM links which is submitted to a director with a specific role who can approve or decline the loss which get paid from a specific wallet. If any more time can be invested into it, I'd suggest a % slider to choose how much is paid back so you don't have to fully cover everything to use the system. Instead of an out of game forum post for the rules, you make a corp bulletin with the rules.

It's crude and not as good at doing exactly what you might want but it would get the ball rolling I think. If CCP was to do it, it really has to be simple to use. KM link, push buttan and done.

I don't think it's necessary but if it ever gets done, they really have to keep it simple. There is no point to implement a tool to make life of some corp easier by not needing them to develop all the tools and make it a huge hassle to use.


Paste your kill link into an evemail, send it to the reimbursement guy, he looks at it and sends you the ISK.

Wouldn't need new roles, new mechanics or anything, and for a small group, that'd work fine. Either that or the old classic 'post in a thread on the alliance/corp/whatever forums' if setting up the fancy google docs people use nowadays is hard (I have no idea if it is or not)


You're right. Trying to make it integrated and "official" is a waste of time in the end when something as simple as mails can do the trick at the base level...
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