Warfare & Tactics

Hi,

I wanted to start a discussion to see if people are remotely interested in something that bugs me whenever I try to gank in certain areas of nullsec. As you may know, there are a lot of "alleged" bots in these regions that operate by pre-aligning to towers and then wait for local to get new unknown people in.

This bugs me, because it essentially gives people free intel with no effort, thus reducing any risk they might have while out in the open. To this end, I am curious what would happen if I suggest the following solution:

Once someone jumps into a system, he/she does not show up on the local chat untill five seconds after breaking his/her gatecloak.

This would give PVP groups a few more precious moments to potentially catch people, instead of arriving to a place where the guy per definition has warped off.

Let me know what you think?

Edits:

Points to consider:
[*] How long would a delay have to be to be balanced amongst most ships? Would we balance it based on shiptypes or just a flat number?

I am a big supporter of "w-space local" for the simple reason that knowledge is power and the current power is way too strong.

- watchlist every links pilot/scout
- watch local to gather most intel you need

Local chat for high-sec is something I don´t really care about but low-sec and especially zero-zero should not have such intel for free. I never understood why it was added to zero-zero in the first place and would love to see it removed. Instead there should be some kind of intel structure/module for the PoS´s available for players so they can secure their space somewhat. Combine that with delayed local for low-sec and we are fine.
Raw intel like the starmap/dotlan provides should be more than enough for everyone to figure out where to find something to shoot at or where you might not want to go without scout.

I would disagree with this statement, as you sign up for PVP the second you undock. If you don't like PVP, don't undock.
Aside of that, you are correct that an interceptor team would get targets relatively fast. The number of the delay in itself is therefore just an indication. That said, if you're in 0.0 and you do not have proper intel set up for your space, you deserve to get ganked.

EVE is a game that's a sandbox in which everyone is able to do whatever they like.
But when you're able to get out of jail free because of a local system that betrays any potential risk right off the bat, you're limiting the options of the sandbox.

Right now, the money in 0.0 for those running sites is pretty damn good. Especially when you consider groups such as the Imperium and others. You should get your intel based on proactive information rather than sitting and waiting for +1 in local. Work for your security, just like PVPers work for it to get broken.

Its not like the ratter can like, keep an eye on dscan. Or have friends. Or do something more interesting than ratting.

Correct,
But it should be balanced enough so that even the most active guys have a chance at missing their window and be vulnerable. You're not in a wellfare program, you're here to get your game on and make your own fortune. If you can't handle risks, you don't live in space that has higher risks attached to them. As it stands today, deep 0.0 is super safe, more so than highsec / lowsec.



I do not agree.
Yes, a game should be fun but we should never start cuddling all the PVEbears, as that completely goes against the nature of EVE Online. In EVE, you're ought to put in effort in order to gain benefits. Players who actively put an effort and play proactively, will be able to deal with any kind of PVP. That you need to d-scan or probe scan is something I can only encourage, as it forces people to actually work for their money, and it punishes those who attempt to do things AFK. Thus the sense of reward goes up.



Frankly speaking, if you're in an entity that holds SOV yet is unable to have proper intel channels set up, you are not ready for SOV. You can not expect people to freely get access to all the goodies without putting in the effort to defend their space. The same goes for intel. You might say



But I disagree. You can't be in 0.0 and feel all safe. That's not how EVE works.
The faster people learn this, the better their experience will be. You're never safe, and you will never be. If players can't handle that, they should go back to World of Warcraft (or similar games)



If they want relative security they should be living in high-sec.
Whenever you enter low/null you get warned about the risks, and great rewards should come at great risks. A wormhole C5 group makes a lot of money, but they also risk a major amount of ISK when they are on the field. Does this mean we should make it easy for them?

This just sounds to me like you want to more easily gank and blob dudes. And if that is your game, that is cool. I don't particularly like your suggestion because I don't see where the new, interesting and fun game play is with this arbitrary and odd tweak.

I like it. You're in local before your client has even loaded, it already takes too long to arrive on grid and be able to lock even in a rigged interceptor.

People don't actually appreciate the time it takes to get into warp and land and be lockable, it's a LOT longer than you think. Test it with a friend, an interceptor and a belt perhaps 10AU away. I bet they can get a battleship into warp before you can point them.

Prewarning: 1 (maybe 2) seconds
Align: 2 seconds
Warp and land: ????
Lock: 1 second
Point: 1 second


So you're ALREADY 7-8 seconds down, and that assumes you know exactly where you're to warp to. The AU/s metric is actually a bit of a red herring, it takes a long, long time (several seconds) to decelerate when your distance left to warp is measured in km.

Betting a double plated BS would escape if the pilot is alert, even if it was stationary. Imagine trying to get something like a shield machariel! I suppose bastioned marauders are your best bet, unless the pilot is asleep.

Remember I'm even not allowing the time to dscan the warp area first!!

And yes, you can protect yourself with Dscan, so I don't see an issue tbh.

Alternatively maybe they can take their sorry, carebearing, risk averse arses back to highsec where they belong.

I know, I KNOW it's :effort: to tap dscan and that it's just not fair, you should be able to generate isk risk free with 100% intel. I know, princess, but life isn't fair. Sometimes you just have to HTFU.

Posting in a 'PVP'ers who like to shoot things that cannot fight back' thread.

If you want to pvp, its simple. Get better at ganking, or find more appropriate targets.

Never had a problem catching ratters in null when I was out there, I'm sorry you don't catch stuff in every anomaly you warp to, but that's just how it works.

Either local is there, or it isn't. There's no need for convoluted middle grounds.