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Pirate faction T3 ccruiers.
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2015-06-02 22:19:25 UTC
T3's are one of the best part of Eve gameplay, otherwise we won't see them much everywhere.

To properly balance them is a sad part of CCP.

Having a few more ? No thx. We have D3T & T3 which is enough atm.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-06-02 22:20:59 UTC
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
-1

no more t3 garbage.


I bet you do pilot them from time to time like everyone do.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#23 - 2015-06-02 22:25:10 UTC
Portiko wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
What Role would they fill? Other then you want new ships?

They would fill the role of extremely expensive, extremely OP subcaps.


That is not a role. That is more of a gimmick and nobody is stopping you from achieving that goal on any boat.

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ACESsiggy
Deaths Consortium
#24 - 2015-06-02 22:50:37 UTC
I wouldn't mind a "I win" button Big smile

“The open-minded see the truth in different things: the narrow-minded see only the differences.”
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#25 - 2015-06-02 23:31:15 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
I bet you do pilot them from time to time like everyone do.


I don't suppose you know why that is do you? Why would people fly fast, tanky, high damage ships over their nearest counterparts?
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-06-03 01:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Sarrgon wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Why? As in "what niche do they fill?" "What role do they play?" "How do you balance them so that they do not obsolete existing ships?"


Why not? Why is it whenever someone mentions about something new its always, why do we need it, whats wrong with what we have. Nothing ever gets improved that way. But I think having more options of what subs you can and do put on your ship, more mix and match a lot of people will like.



How does a new potentially unbalanced ship mixed in to an unbalanced mix improve things. It can be like trying wake up after a night of drinking by doing a line or 2 of coke lol.

that and ccp tried this lets give new toys. It can create issues. You seem to forget some eve history based on your start date. Let me go over old times. Long ago both AF and inty sucked (well AF sucked more....this class seems to never shake its red headed step child status no matter what ccp does lol).

We the pilots of the them said ccp...please fix them. they didn't. They did however go how about this....how about pirate ships. Enter....dramiel spam among other FOTM pirate frigs. Nice toys no doubt. And all it did was give more reasons to NOT fly inty or AF.

As it was the inty that had some damage output deemed lacking. Or it was the AF that had speed. Pick your outlook here. In short...if you had the isk you flew this as it did everything you ever needed from 2 ship classes.

For the new shiny toy people they were happy. For those of who liked inty and AF we were going ummm, we were broken now we are more broken, fine job there ccp. The punchline to this being in time ccp still had to do then dial back pirate frigates, then rebalance pass to inty and AF then had to rebalance the pirates. 4 rebalances that would have been done in 2 if they fixed AF and inty first. Then the pirates would have come out more balanced first time possibly.
Portiko
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-06-03 04:40:48 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Portiko wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
What Role would they fill? Other then you want new ships?

They would fill the role of extremely expensive, extremely OP subcaps.


That is not a role. That is more of a gimmick and nobody is stopping you from achieving that goal on any boat.

Being OP is a perfectly legit role, it's what all pirate ships do and the fact that hulls are so CHEAP and WEAK is preventing me from achieving that goal.

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Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#28 - 2015-06-03 10:48:12 UTC
Implement 'T1' faction dessies first, its the missing link and the models already exist as NPC form faction dessie rats.

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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-06-03 10:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
I bet you do pilot them from time to time like everyone do.


I don't suppose you know why that is do you? Why would people fly fast, tanky, high damage ships over their nearest counterparts?


Excuse me but i'm not sure what are you about.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Luscius Uta
#30 - 2015-06-03 10:53:21 UTC
Part of me wants to see a T3 version of a Gila (like a Tengu but with badass drones), and a Proteus with 90% webs.
Part of me thinks those ships might be somewhat unbalanced.
I am baffled.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Anthar Thebess
#31 - 2015-06-03 11:46:19 UTC
No faction T3.
Yes , more ships , why not, but not ships that will make some other class dead.
- So long Assalut Frigates , as we got T3 dessies
- So long Battlecruisers, you slow warping, easy to tackle , low dps .....
- Battleships? Why you even undock in this thing ... ah higsec.

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Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-06-03 12:49:57 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
-1

no more t3 garbage.


I bet you do pilot them from time to time like everyone do.


Oh I do, I'll be the first to say It'd be best if every T3 ship in the game was deleted.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#33 - 2015-06-03 13:37:48 UTC
Sarrgon wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Why? As in "what niche do they fill?" "What role do they play?" "How do you balance them so that they do not obsolete existing ships?"


Why not? Why is it whenever someone mentions about something new its always, why do we need it, whats wrong with what we have. Nothing ever gets improved that way. But I think having more options of what subs you can and do put on your ship, more mix and match a lot of people will like.


Well, there is a good reason for it.

Like how the game was better before tech 3 destroyers. Many of the ships added over complicate the game, and actually take value away from game play.

That's how I see it, at least.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#34 - 2015-06-03 13:59:08 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
I bet you do pilot them from time to time like everyone do.


I don't suppose you know why that is do you? Why would people fly fast, tanky, high damage ships over their nearest counterparts?


Excuse me but i'm not sure what are you about.

Wondering the same thing about you and this ridiculous idea.
OP as in way to much of everything making them the ONLY ship worth flying.

Make a T3 Pirate faction cruiser as unique to it's class as the other pirate faction ships are to their respective classes and you take something that is already OP and make it insanely OP to the point that nothing else in it's class will have a chance against them. Not only would this send all of the T1 and T2 cruiser hulls to the mothball fleets, it would do the same for the current line of T-3's as well. All by itself this makes this a terrible idea.

On the PvE side of things you can get level 4 missions tank levels out of the current T3's with more than enough DPS output to make them viable options for those who prefer a quick hit style. T3's can be set up to run 10/10 DeD pockets with relative ease, something that many of the current BC and BS cannot do. How can you possibly think that cruiser class hulls with even more capability would be a good edition to the game?

And if you dumb them down to where they were not insanely OP then why even bother wasting the dev time to put them into the game?

With the recent edition of the T3 dessies and the ongoing re-balancing of the current T3's this is a bad idea in so many ways it is hard to express them all.
Wynta
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-06-05 01:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Wynta
The best way that this idea could be implemented is through Pirate Subsystems. Each faction would have 1 Pirate subsystem that got 2 bonuses for each racial subsystem skill. The model would change depending on the ship so each subsystem would have two models.

Gurista: Can be fit on a Tengu or Proteus.
Missile/Drone Offensive Subsystem.

Gallente: Drone HP/Damage per level
Caldari: Kinetic/Therm Missile Damage per level

Serpentis: Can be fit on Loki or Proteus
Web/Tracking Electronic Subsystem.

Minmatar: Web effectiveness
Gallente: Turret Tracking

Blood Raider: Loki/Legion
Nuet/Web Electronic

Legion: Nuet/Vamp amount
Minmatar: Web Range
Role: Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level


Pirate T3's would be hugely overpowered and Pirate Subsystems are impossible to balance. Most Pirate bonuses would span different subsystem type, like Sansha's afterburner bonus and tracking bonus would be hard to implement because if it was a offensive subsystem would it be bonused to laser or hybrid, or a general turret bonus, and would it also have the AB bonus and how would be affect the propulation subsystem. If it was a propulsion subsystem it could having a offensive bonus because that would be OP and the AB bonus would be redundant for Caldari.

The only way I could see them being implemented is to make them all offensive subsystems and then balance them around that. The Loki with a double web range bonus or 1 range/1 effectiveness bonus would be op. The Legion with double nuet bonus's would be OP. The Proteus with double point bonuses would be OP. The only ones I think that wouldnt be OP are the Gurista, Sansha, and Angel bonuses.
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