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This is what eve si coming to: This is what CODE is: Pathetic.

First post First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#121 - 2015-06-02 10:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Such poor sportsmanship. You know, if a high school basketball team loses by 50 points they are still expected to go out and shake hands with their opponents afterwards.


In high school basketball, one team doesn't start out with three times as many players and submachine guns.
That's because such a thing would be against the rules of basketball, it's not against the rules of Eve though. As long as the opponents both play within the rules then not congratulating the other team when they triumph is indeed poor sportsmanship.

Quote:
You're perfectly free to gank people, and I hope that CODE continues to. I, personally, look forward to the day when I can kill the hapless with the best of them! But don't be a jerk and expect or demand that they kiss your *** afterwards; You are killing people in onesided fights! Own up to it! Recognize that in their eyes you are playing the villain and accept the delicious tears and hate that comes with it.
The fight doesn't have to be one sided, the same mechanics and tactics are available to all, that some choose not to use them is irrelevant.

Rubbing it in and demanding fealty are part of what produces those delicious tears and hatred, not doing so is counterproductive. Psychologically attacking an opponent's morale in this way is a force multiplier, as are the tactics used.

Quote:
Asking the nerd whom you have just swirlie'd to thank you for the pleasure is gross. That's bully behavior and goes above and beyond simply ganking.
Bollocks, it's part and parcel of the process. See above about psychological force multipliers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Zaragram Dorgiers
Bold Lock Aggregations
#122 - 2015-06-02 10:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaragram Dorgiers
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The fight doesn't have to be one sided, the same mechanics and tactics are available to all, that some choose not to use them is irrelevant.


Because the average industrial player/corporate entity has access to the same resources and tactics that an alliance as large and well-funded as CODE has access to. Right.

I'm all for ganking. I like the danger and struggle that it produces by design, and it's a big factor in why I recently decided to start playing this game. People who choose to fly around in untanked, unprotected ships need to know the tradeoff they are taking, and that they are always a valid target for other players to bash and kill. But I'm not going to pretend that some fifteen-man Industrial corp I put in my crosshairs has any real potential to strike back against larger scale entities.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#123 - 2015-06-02 11:13:22 UTC
Oh, it's this thread, again.

Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The fight doesn't have to be one sided, the same mechanics and tactics are available to all, that some choose not to use them is irrelevant.


Because the average industrial player/corporate entity has access to the same resources and tactics that an alliance as large and well-funded as CODE has access to. Right.


Our biggest resource is people, so yes, the "average" industrial player / corporate entitiy does have access.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Zaragram Dorgiers
Bold Lock Aggregations
#124 - 2015-06-02 11:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaragram Dorgiers
admiral root wrote:
Our biggest resource is people, so yes, the "average" industrial player / corporate entitiy does have access.


The average industrial corporation is as big as CODE? If not, then no- No they do not have access to the same level of resources that their opponents do. This doesn't make it /wrong/ to kill the industrials, and might even make it /right/ to kill them... But it is /not/ an even playing field.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-06-02 11:18:01 UTC
Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Our biggest resource is people, so yes, the "average" industrial player / corporate entitiy does have access.


The average industrial corporation is as big as CODE?


cant you just move somewhere else instead of living in the ganking hotspots?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Zaragram Dorgiers
Bold Lock Aggregations
#126 - 2015-06-02 11:19:56 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
cant you just move somewhere else instead of living in the ganking hotspots?


I'm not a miner, and I never will be. I'm not giving CCP my monthly sub so I can sit around and stare at fake rocks.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#127 - 2015-06-02 11:23:35 UTC
Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Our biggest resource is people, so yes, the "average" industrial player / corporate entitiy does have access.


The average industrial corporation is as big as CODE? If not, then no- No they do not have access to the same level of resources that their opponents do. This doesn't make it /wrong/ to kill the industrials, and might even make it /right/ to kill them... But it is /not/ an even playing field.

If you go back and read what Jonah wrote, then yes the average industrial corporation does have access to the same mechanics and tactics.

That industrial corp could indeed grow to be larger, more powerful, smarter or any other approach within the rules that allows them to achieve what they want.

It's not the mechanics that stop those corps, only desire/commitment.
Foxstar Damaskeenus
why did i join this corp
Not Purple Shoot It.
#128 - 2015-06-02 11:24:42 UTC
Sounds like it was a lame high-sec corp and the infiltrator did you a favor. Lol

Praise James 315!

They should take his advice and join a corp/alliance that is actually active in all aspects of Eve.

"[this thread] is a cesspit of trolling and flaming" ISD Buldath

Jenshae Chiroptera
#129 - 2015-06-02 11:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Sibyyl wrote:
This is why the Awox switch is a bit of a puzzle. It is doubtful that the addition of this feature would correlate to higher player retention, or a large exodus of players from NPC Corps into PC Corps. If anything, not giving players enough rope to hang themselves also ends up removing content.
Low level "raids" that only allow T1 cruisers and frigate, which encourage teaming up would probably improve player retention under New Eden's new themepark.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-06-02 11:29:37 UTC

Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
Because the average industrial player/corporate entity has access to the same resources and tactics that an alliance as large and well-funded as CODE has access to. Right.

I'm all for ganking. I like the danger and struggle that it produces by design, and it's a big factor in why I recently decided to start playing this game. People who choose to fly around in untanked, unprotected ships need to know the tradeoff they are taking, and that they are always a valid target for other players to bash and kill. But I'm not going to pretend that some fifteen-man Industrial corp I put in my crosshairs has any real potential to strike back against larger scale entities.


The size and financial strength of CODEdot is the result of an exceptional amount of metagaming by its founder. Nobody prevents the "average industrial corp" from metagaming too, but no one is entitled to resources and tactics and all of those things you think you deserve.

You have to earn it. Otherwise someone else who can metagame better than you can will come around to squash you like a bug. Learn to fight, or make allies who can fight. Being bad at the game shouldn't shield you from being creamed.

The metagame is the main game.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#131 - 2015-06-02 11:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The fight doesn't have to be one sided, the same mechanics and tactics are available to all, that some choose not to use them is irrelevant.


Because the average industrial player/corporate entity has access to the same resources and tactics that an alliance as large and well-funded as CODE has access to. Right.
Industrial players and corporations looking to impede their competition are one of the sources of CODE.'s funding and resources. So yeah, they do have access to those funds and resources, maybe not individually but definitely collectively.

Tactics often involve numbers, a resource that is universally available in a social game.

CODE. as an alliance is actually fairly small with <400 members, yet they manage to punch well above their weight in drama caused and tears collected. Admittedly they do have associated independents that act in their name and are often joined by people from much larger entities, who often disregard conflicts between themselves, in the interests of creating a mutually enjoyable fountain of tears.

Quote:
I'm all for ganking. I like the danger and struggle that it produces by design, and it's a big factor in why I recently decided to start playing this game. People who choose to fly around in untanked, unprotected ships need to know the tradeoff they are taking, and that they are always a valid target for other players to bash and kill.
On this we agree.

Quote:
But I'm not going to pretend that some fifteen-man Industrial corp I put in my crosshairs has any real potential to strike back against larger scale entities.
If you looked at the history of the game you'd realise just how wrong you are. The only thing preventing small corps from striking back against larger scale entities is themselves, for example small wardec corps are totally capable of effectively shutting down far larger entities through the use of psychology and asymmetric warfare.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2015-06-02 11:35:10 UTC

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Low level "raids" that only allow T1 cruisers and frigate, which encourage teaming up would probably improve player retention under New Eden's new themepark.


I wonder if rookie players ever team up together for Our Man: Dagar. Of all the instances I've personally seen of players getting help to finish it, it has always been a veteran helping a rookie and not rookies banding together for some reason.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#133 - 2015-06-02 11:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Sibyyl wrote:
I wonder if rookie players ever team up together for Our Man: Dagar. Of all the instances I've personally seen of players getting help to finish it, it has always been a veteran helping a rookie and not rookies banding together for some reason.

Rarely, I've seen newbies helping each other out with it, but more often than not somebody rolls up in a dirty gurt shiny death machine and shows Dagan who's boss.

Last time I helped a newbie with it I rolled up in an Armageddon, his reaction to my shiny machine of death going pew pew pew was quite literally " 'king hell that's awesome"

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Vishanka
White Ops
#134 - 2015-06-02 11:39:52 UTC
Sorry for the question, but what or who is CODE? What are they doing? Never seen anything of them Ugh
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2015-06-02 11:42:55 UTC
No offense but some posts give me the impression that some people seek the easy way out of things instead of pushing through the pain and when I see the amount of autopiloted frighters in High-Sec I am asking myself "where is that monster named CODE that eats all the fun and kills all the indy guys?" I have them on -10 with my alt so I see if they are in local or not and I barely see them but what I see is a lot of juicy pinatas all the way from low to high-sec.
But since my high-sec experience is pretty limited someone might enlighten me and points out where exactly the problem with CODE is? I have read a lot of threads and a lot of posts where people complain about CODE in one way or the other but I never saw any hard numbers. Or heard stories of CODE killing some crazy loot pinata and the mining thing seems to be well, not too harsh either. The newbro miner can go where CODE isn´t active and the "veteran" can hop into a skiff and proper fit it so they won´t come more than once - I guess. Or do what the newbro is doing and go where CODE is not that present.
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#136 - 2015-06-02 11:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mithandra
I'm confused. Did you happen to mistake eve for mylittleponyinspace?

Eve is a harsh mistress. If something can be exploited, twisted or destroyed, someone will do it just because they can.

Its not nice but it doesn't make it wrong.

CODE are no different to other mechanic exploiting groups of the past.

what they do is not nice, but it doesn't make it wrong.



In the words of BoB the god of wormholes, "adapt, overcome or go play frogger"

Heh I got ganked by code. didn't whine about it, just got on with purchasing my next ship

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#137 - 2015-06-02 11:53:07 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
I'm confused. Did you happen to mistake eve for mylittleponyinspace?


Someone said ponies?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#138 - 2015-06-02 11:55:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Trajan Unknown wrote:
No offense but some posts give me the impression that some people seek the easy way out of things instead of pushing through the pain and when I see the amount of autopiloted frighters in High-Sec I am asking myself "where is that monster named CODE that eats all the fun and kills all the indy guys?" I have them on -10 with my alt so I see if they are in local or not and I barely see them but what I see is a lot of juicy pinatas all the way from low to high-sec.
But since my high-sec experience is pretty limited someone might enlighten me and points out where exactly the problem with CODE is? I have read a lot of threads and a lot of posts where people complain about CODE in one way or the other but I never saw any hard numbers. Or heard stories of CODE killing some crazy loot pinata and the mining thing seems to be well, not too harsh either.
If the whiners are to be believed CODE. and Miniluv gank pretty much every freighter that passes through hisec, the reality of the market being well stocked and stats from people who actually fly freighters properly, RF for example, say otherwise.

The math was done a while back and it supported the theory that the chances of getting ganked in a freighter are infinitesimally small if you're not stupid.

Some people seem to think that high security means absolute security and won't be happy until it's impossible to force PvP onto others there.

Quote:
The newbro miner can go where CODE isn´t active and the "veteran" can hop into a skiff and proper fit it so they won´t come more than once - I guess. Or do what the newbro is doing and go where CODE is not that present.
Entirely too much effort for some, also "but mah yield"

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#139 - 2015-06-02 12:05:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mithandra wrote:
I'm confused. Did you happen to mistake eve for mylittleponyinspace?


Someone said ponies?

Aaaaand I just woke up my roommate with maniacal laughter.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#140 - 2015-06-02 12:07:22 UTC
Zaragram Dorgiers wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Our biggest resource is people, so yes, the "average" industrial player / corporate entitiy does have access.


The average industrial corporation is as big as CODE? If not, then no- No they do not have access to the same level of resources that their opponents do. This doesn't make it /wrong/ to kill the industrials, and might even make it /right/ to kill them... But it is /not/ an even playing field.


We're as big as we are because we went forth and recruited. Nothing stops industrials doing the same.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff