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New Structures, Sov Mechanics, and High Sec POS's

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Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
#1 - 2015-05-29 04:07:41 UTC
I am not sure if this has been addressed anywhere, as there are currently many generalized forum threads addressing different aspects of each of these topics.

With the new structures, any size structure can be located in High Sec. And as shown on early models of these new structures, larger ones will require the Entosis Link to capture.

With the new Sov Mechanics, the amount of time that is required to capture a structure is based on occupancy, time zones, reinforcement, and capture events.

My question is how does all of this tie into High Sec POS's? If a large alliance or corporation decides to place one of the larger structures requiring Entosis Links to destroy it, will they also benefit from the new Sov mechanics even though they cannot hold sov in High Sec? I don't see any way around at least applying a basic version, it wouldn't work if a high sec POS could be captured in just a few minutes of using the Entosis Link.

Additionally, how will activation of the Entosis Link work in High Sec? I would assume it would be a Concordable offense.
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-05-29 04:40:08 UTC
No word yet on if the activation of Entosis links is considered hostile, but I don't see why it wouldn't be.

As far as the rest goes, neither HS, LS, WHs, or NPC NS will get the benefits from the Sov Mechanics as, well...you don't own Sov there.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-05-29 05:03:12 UTC
Important part is the adjustable timezone window.
Its defaulted to 18 freaking hours and can be shrunk with sov upgrades.

But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day with no ability to reduce that timezone window size.

So small corps gonna lose them super fast, but all their items and ships get whisked away to special Only For Me cans that will have all your stuff when you lose your station.

Still goodluck to small corps trying to hold one. Lol
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-05-29 05:13:32 UTC
It's not like it only takes 1 attack with the entosis thing to take out the structures.

The bigger ones will take 3 attacks, each with a reinforcement timer in between.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-05-29 05:21:49 UTC
Kashadin wrote:
It's not like it only takes 1 attack with the entosis thing to take out the structures.

The bigger ones will take 3 attacks, each with a reinforcement timer in between.

If a wardec lasts one week. And you aint online at hour 16 of your vulnerable timezone window cuz its 4am where you live and all your corp mates, pretty sure you wont make that second and third timers either huh???

Even if you have a few dudes spread across timezones, they miss ONE timer or just dont defend it sufficiently and goes to the next timer.

18hr window only able to be shrunk by owning sov and upgrading your system...

You seriously think a small-mid sized corp will be able to defend it for 18hrs a day 7days a week??
They gonna get reinforced dude and into next timer etc etc etc.

Think about it..be realistic.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#6 - 2015-05-29 05:28:40 UTC
The current line of defense of (fueled) HS poses: Unless there's some grudge involved or you want a specific moon it is not worth the hassle.

It will be interesting to see, how CCP handles the balance here.

Remove standings and insurance.
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-05-29 05:34:11 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
It's not like it only takes 1 attack with the entosis thing to take out the structures.

The bigger ones will take 3 attacks, each with a reinforcement timer in between.

If a wardec lasts one week. And you aint online at hour 16 of your vulnerable timezone window cuz its 4am where you live and all your corp mates, pretty sure you wont make that second and third timers either huh???

Even if you have a few dudes spread across timezones, they miss ONE timer or just dont defend it sufficiently and goes to the next timer.

18hr window only able to be shrunk by owning sov and upgrading your system...

You seriously think a small-mid sized corp will be able to defend it for 18hrs a day 7days a week??
They gonna get reinforced dude and into next timer etc etc etc.

Think about it..be realistic.



And with the current way it is set up with most of the loot going to go to things you can't access as the attacker and it's not like you have to fight for space, the things can be set up anywhere, not just at moons.

People aren't going to go out of their way to attack the things unless someone makes themselves a target.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-05-29 05:37:40 UTC
Dont imagine there will be much hassle now. Ccp said the citadel will be able to defend itself from ONE (1)(single) attack with an Entosis link.

Ccp said that the citadel defenses will NOT BE AUTOMATIC like they currently are.
You will need to be online and in the citadel to use your defensive weapons and scrams and jams of the Citadel.
Ccp said the vulnerability window timezone starts at 18hrs and can only by reduced by upgrading a sov owned system.
There are only 3 timers/reinforcement periods. Suprised by the monday lunchtime entosis cycling. Miss that wed 4am attack and boom, next timer. Then miss that fri 8am one. Kiss it goodbye.

I dont think the hisec industrial corps have really grasped what this means for them yet lol.
You basicallt immune pos is gonna be impossible and a thing of the past.

Cant wait til the hisec bears finally understand amd realise the finer points of the Citadel System. Lol
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-05-29 05:39:42 UTC
Kashadin wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
It's not like it only takes 1 attack with the entosis thing to take out the structures.

The bigger ones will take 3 attacks, each with a reinforcement timer in between.

If a wardec lasts one week. And you aint online at hour 16 of your vulnerable timezone window cuz its 4am where you live and all your corp mates, pretty sure you wont make that second and third timers either huh???

Even if you have a few dudes spread across timezones, they miss ONE timer or just dont defend it sufficiently and goes to the next timer.

18hr window only able to be shrunk by owning sov and upgrading your system...

You seriously think a small-mid sized corp will be able to defend it for 18hrs a day 7days a week??
They gonna get reinforced dude and into next timer etc etc etc.

Think about it..be realistic.



And with the current way it is set up with most of the loot going to go to things you can't access as the attacker and it's not like you have to fight for space, the things can be set up anywhere, not just at moons.

People aren't going to go out of their way to attack the things unless someone makes themselves a target.

Dude there are hundreds of players that ALL THEY DO is wardec industrial hisec corps to shoot them and blow up their poses.
It aint about the fat loot or moons for them.

Some (hundreds) of players just like to see the world (and hisec indy corp assets) burn.
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
#10 - 2015-05-29 05:40:25 UTC
I don't really know what you are referring to with "benefit from the new sov mechanic"? You can't hold sov in empire space, even if you should drop an xl citadel in an empty system. However I think that the capture mechanic by collecting nodes constellation wide will apply in empire space as well.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-05-29 05:42:13 UTC
Again i had to say once more im suprised at your ignorance and naitivity.

How do you not think that people just randomly go around looking for people to mess with? Random sandcastles to kick?

How long have you played Eve? Thats what people do
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2015-05-29 07:39:50 UTC
I rather like the idea that folks should play together to defend something.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2015-05-29 12:09:43 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Solstice Punk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-05-29 12:22:34 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Kashadin wrote:
It's not like it only takes 1 attack with the entosis thing to take out the structures.

The bigger ones will take 3 attacks, each with a reinforcement timer in between.

If a wardec lasts one week. And you aint online at hour 16 of your vulnerable timezone window cuz its 4am where you live and all your corp mates, pretty sure you wont make that second and third timers either huh???

Even if you have a few dudes spread across timezones, they miss ONE timer or just dont defend it sufficiently and goes to the next timer.

18hr window only able to be shrunk by owning sov and upgrading your system...

You seriously think a small-mid sized corp will be able to defend it for 18hrs a day 7days a week??
They gonna get reinforced dude and into next timer etc etc etc.

Think about it..be realistic.



And with the current way it is set up with most of the loot going to go to things you can't access as the attacker and it's not like you have to fight for space, the things can be set up anywhere, not just at moons.

People aren't going to go out of their way to attack the things unless someone makes themselves a target.

Dude there are hundreds of players that ALL THEY DO is wardec industrial hisec corps to shoot them and blow up their poses.
It aint about the fat loot or moons for them.

Some (hundreds) of players just like to see the world (and hisec indy corp assets) burn.
Besides this being a gigantic exaggeration, even IF it was true the HUNDREDS are still dwarfed by the THOUSANDS of absolutely pointless corporations out there, which are run by people who do not wish to defend themselves.

Corporations have no value, because everyone can create one and natural selection has been mostly eliminated. There is no point in having thousands of corporations that in essence all look the same, feel the same and do the same and thus have no value for society as a whole.

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Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2015-05-29 12:25:37 UTC
Not sure if you've been asked before Nullarbor - but will the stations be SKINable like our ships?

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2015-05-29 12:57:23 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
Not sure if you've been asked before Nullarbor - but will the stations be SKINable like our ships?


The models will have the graphics capability to be skinned, but we havn't designed exactly how you would acquire them etc. We know that is a path we want to explore later on though, yes.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-05-29 13:23:55 UTC
Don Purple wrote:
I rather like the idea that folks should play together to defend something.

I know right?

But alas, Ccp Nullarbor just basically told us that they (CCP) will hold the hisec indy bears hands and take care of the defense for them.

Special rules for the very special hisec indy corp assets lile usual
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
#18 - 2015-05-29 13:37:24 UTC
I am not saying that the High Sec POS's should be invincible. I think that a similar type of activity based index should be applied to them. If a corporation is actively using the POS's that they own (research and manufacturing should could less since they are passive) then it should reduce the vulnerability window and adjust the Entosis Link time requirements.

And another point is that I actually think that CCP needs to keep lootable structures in High Sec. There needs to be something driving the destruction of these structures. Right now they are lootable and have restricted locations so the conflict is land and money. In the new system they are taking away both of those, which will lead to large numbers of anchored and abandoned structures that will start generating massive lag like the secure can fields of old.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#19 - 2015-05-29 13:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Don Purple wrote:
I rather like the idea that folks should play together to defend something.

I know right?

But alas, Ccp Nullarbor just basically told us that they (CCP) will hold the hisec indy bears hands and take care of the defense for them.

Special rules for the very special hisec indy corp assets lile usual
That's not what he said, and you know it. He said that they won't be copy pasting sov mechanics on structures, which in the case of hisec structures maintains a status quo of sorts.

Sov mechanics don't affect hisec structures now because they're not relevant to them, and they won't be when sov+ comes to pass either. There's very different aggression mechanics involved so it stands to reason that there'd be different defence mechanics too.

The sky is not falling.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#20 - 2015-05-29 13:54:34 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Arline Kley wrote:
Not sure if you've been asked before Nullarbor - but will the stations be SKINable like our ships?


The models will have the graphics capability to be skinned, but we havn't designed exactly how you would acquire them etc. We know that is a path we want to explore later on though, yes.


maybe can give the skins x % chanse as drops in data sites? Idea
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