Wormholes

Older proposal I made regarding clones/cloning:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4707771#post4707771

Pertinent pieces:

Just for fun, not a serious idea, but let us swap to an appropriate clone for say an armour ship or shield fit, but we have to strap our unused clones to the ship, like reavers and the implants in these clones have a chance of dropping?

I always wanted to fly a ship draped in corpses
some one else's corpse would be better but my own is good too :)

No, It would simply mean that you can jump from your fed navy mindlink to your RF mindlink. That's not removing risk, it's enabling people in wormholes to do squat without having to limit themselves to one fight style. It would also mean we can hop out to lowsec in cool kids' snake clones instead of poor wormholer's two learning imps and a 5% med hybrid turret :3

What a shallow attempt a an argument. People limit themselves to one fight style via plenty of other mechanisms;

Wormhole Effect
So, you are a serious contender and live in a C5 with an effect. You basically, therefore, restrict yourself to a ship choice, doctrine and fitting selection which some EFT warrior boffin has come up with or shamelessly stolen off someone else / the game meta, and fly nothing else. I'm looking at W-R here and Blue Fire in particular, where you have RLML Cerbs, and just sit off your holes.

You're telling me that you'd swap clones at POS and take, eg, 15m sig radius Daredevils with HG haloes to your hole and fight the sig tanking battle if you could? No you wouldn't. Not now, since the small weapon damage buff and the Cerb buff. You have a doctrine, you fly it, end of story. You just avoid Pulsars like the plague.

Oh, you say you'd refit your clone and ships to go fight in the Pulsar/ Really? And give up on 18-24 hours of ever fighting in your home wormhole with your crazy effects and ridiculous fleet? No you wouldn't. You'll just give upon fighting a properly prepared Pulsar fleet in your Wolf Rayet fleet (and clones).

Alliance Doctrine
So, let's say you have one of these, like the 100MN HAM legion which Lazerhawks uses, which ticks all the boxes for shooting dreads and other subcaps. It's tough, low sig, AB fit and hence can keep mobile, and has decent DPS. Assume everyone runs mid grade Slaves, Navy mindlink, etc. Why would being able to run a RF mindlink and run some kind of kiting meta like Ishtars, or FN mindlink, so you could go off-doctrine and fly a F*ckyou Fleet Celestis heavy damp comp suddenly be attractive?

What's going to prompt you to take a completely different doctrine against the same target, in this example, a typical blap dread brawl in a C5? What's a F8ckyou Fleet good at against sieged dreads and wads of logi? nada.

Alliance doctrines, if they exist, only exist for a reason. No alliance has a doctrinal system based around the fact their guys may or may not have implants and may or may not be able to swap clones in order to reship into a completely different doctrine.

Maybe they would, if it was possible. I doubt it.

Ship Fittings
Leaving aside doctrine fits received from on high, which you don't get to tinker with without risking SRP or being castigated for going off-piste, there's not much which will be advantaged by fiddling ship fits to match clones, or vice versa. Your ship fits are put together to suit the ship's traits, capabilities, a plan of how you're going to use it and against what. If this plan involves Slaves and IN mindlink, and Damnation and Guardia support, say flying a Bhaalgorn with 5 Guard + Falcon into battle, then why would you take same Bhaalgorn with a jackal set, no Guards and Falcons, into battle?

If your battle plan and strategy to win at all costs extends to Slaves, you won't be shipping into a Vagabond because these kind of plans to win at all costs require more than just one ship and one fit for that ship. You'd have to have a Claymore toon, a Scimi toon or 5, plus the clone with the requisite implant set.

The people clamouring for this may have the resources, lack of guts, and ability to reship a whole gang from heavy armour to kiting meta and would love to be able to reship their clones as well....but so what? Those people live in Thera and have no friends.

Well...YOUR MOM!

Anyways, I meant mechanics and game concepts. Like if EVE was a 2D game, who the hell would play it. There are things that we used to do in game design that aren't a thing anymore.

Although I see trinket's point about jump clones, the procedure you described wastes a solid 30 minutes minimum. Yes, jump to target clone is a short procedure, but then you eventually jump back to the clone that you left in the middle of nowhere and fly it somewhere.

I like the jump clone/pod idea as an alternative.

I'm starting to fall in space love w/ Trinket's friend and I don't care who knows.

I would bet if we took a poll people would show to care more about their 125mil pod than their 500 mil legion. If you want people to take bigger risks in wormhole space the game should allow for clone swapping inside wormhole space. The standard timers should apply.

This would open the door for more drunken roams and pvp where the outcome is less certain for the aggressing fleet. Your still going to get good pod kills in WHs because when the fight get serious people will want to fly with all assets in .. Or when they are min/maxing PVE stuff (think marauders with HG Crystals). In fact because people would be able to switch out they might run more expensive implants just based off the fact.

As to the idea of separating implants and jump clones. Its a good idea for all the reasons stated. However i'm not sure if implant should have a timer or not. If it doesn't have a timer then PVPers would only fly with combat/fitting clones and hardwaring. They would be assured in the ability to swap to a learning clone once the op was done. It's actually worth testing though as it could make some interested meta's where certain fleet require certain hardwaring to be feasible assuming with these changes they also boosted \ changed the

On that note and not trying to change topics but the implant/drug market is an under utilized game mechanic for CCP. It might be fun to have things like overheating implants which provide an increased bonus vs the standard but burn out in a few days.

i understand the argument for being able to swap clones in wspace, we had a discussion about it in corp ts last night. What nobody could answer though is if we keep taking away what makes wspace special, it gets closer and closer to just being null without local. That seems to be what everyone wants.

I like w space being difficult to live in with lots of risks. I like not having clones that match my ships. I like that much of w space is uninhabited. But i'm a sentimental old fart, so what do i know.

Keep in mind, when you give pilots the freedom to install clones via Rorqual/Pos-Modules in Jspace, you give them the ability to reship, reship and reship after each kill. That is not a balanced mechanic for wormholes. Please take place in some bigger fights and you will understand it. That makes Corp/Alliance A not attacking Corp/Alliance B because with the mass-limit of wormholes you will come to that point the hole collapses and the defender has his huge bonus.
My oppinion is that this will only push bigger alliances who will stay strong or it will form just more WHCFC's who will share holes.

The OP did state quite explicitly that it's supposed to allow you to only jump within the system (and how jump mechanics need to change so it would even be possible). Also assuming everyone in favor of changing clones in w-space also means the in-system-limitation to be a given.