These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Sojourn: Void
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#41 - 2015-05-29 17:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

War is Business. Business is War.

Your failure to grasp the concept does not make it any less axiomatic. I never really can understand people whose conception of war and conflict is so histrionic and eschatological. The wars of tomorrow will not be fought in order to defend and maintain a political, economic, or social status quo -- war will be the political, economic, and social status quo with capsuleers such as ourselves the primary consumers and producers of that new order.

I rest well knowing that with every life I take, and every asset I destroy under such a paradigm fulfills my obligations not only to my Company, Kaalakiota, but the wider State. Indeed, every person I kill in the course of my present occupation keeps many more of my fellow citizens gainfully employed in service to the Company. That others suffer from personal ideological or religious restrictions preventing them from participating in the growing War Economy certainly is of no interest or concern to me.

As for your previous question posed: Yes, I would personally fire upon a neutral capsuleer pilot in a basic civilian frigate while I was in an advanced cruiser in due course as a pre-emptive defensive action to mitigate the potential risk of cynosural field activation with my typical engagement profile -- initial salvos upon designated escape pod systems and closing salvos with an ammunition class where applicable that will ensure effective hyper-velocity armour shrapnel spalling within designated crew zones.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Empyrean Age, where merciless greed is the status quo and blood is the grease that keeps the wheels of industry going!

I grasp the concept perfectly well, Gesakaarin. PIE's own funds come from arms manufacturing and our crews are 'gainfully employed' when they serve aboard our vessels. Well, at least the freemen are. I do not personally use slaves aboard my ships but I am sure some of my fellows do. However, it is that understanding that causes me to reject the concept. No economy should be run on human suffering, and if you think this is a perfectly acceptable state of affairs then you are dwelling amongst one of the lowest rungs of human refuse.

ValentinaDLM wrote:
Aldrith, the other side is paying a great deal more than the Empire at the moment so you should just count your blessings we aren't going after a second medal right now, because I gladly would.

If you want to fight on the other side, show your true colors and go ahead and do it. I think we'd both be happier if we were allowed to turn this into a shooting war.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
She could do a lot worse than us Aldrith. And so could your Empire.

You are correct, and I have already admitted that. PYRE is highly questionable, but not without its merits. Some of you I'd be honored to fight alongside, yourself included. However, as you are part of a unit that harbors war criminals and organized crime lords, you cannot expect your name to not be sullied just a little.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
You see that I could have decided that I was on the wrong side. You understand that I could theoretically have come to see the world differently than I did, and do.

You have every right to see the world as you deem fit. And I am obligated to argue against your view if I deem it to be incorrect.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
Do you regret fighting, Aldrith?

I regret having to fight, but not fighting itself. It is my duty and responsibility to use my strength to defend the weak. For some time now those have been the unfortunate civilians caught within the Amarr-Minmatar warzone. There are quite a lot of battles I am obligated to fight, and arguably some of those are more important than the militia war, but that is where I am right now.

(con't.)

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#42 - 2015-05-29 17:27:24 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
In principle, the Amarr fight for grand causes: God, humanity, and the Empire, and the uniting of the second and the third under the first.
The Caldari fight for hearth and home. Family (literal or metaphorical), community, corporation, State-- the rest of the world be damned.


And here is both our fundamental difference and our similarity. You have identified this quite well.

You see, what the Amarr faith does is extend the reach of 'hearth and home' to a grand scale. I fight with the exact same notion as you, but my hearth and home includes the entire Empire, and the kin that is welcome to it includes all of humanity. It is a notion that even the most simple commoner can understand: we are all children of the same parent - God - and it is up to the good children to help the stray brothers and sisters to come home and make our family complete again. Personally I do not mind if some of those stray siblings stay outside of the family, so long as they lead decent lives in the meantime.

The Caldari, it seems, are far more exclusive about who they invite in and stick their necks out for. I'd call this a selfish philosophy, but understandable. It is a bit short-sighted and rather cold to ignore the plight of the many in favor of the few. Eventually the many will come asking for handouts... and when you refuse to give it, they might pillage your house to get what they need.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
Grand causes are trouble. We're not immune to them, but they don't tend to end well; Tibus Heth and his Provists are a good example.

You are certainly right, they can. Which is why a culture of responsibility must develop around the grand cause to ensure no one usurps it for their own ends. That is what we Amarr have, and what, arguably, the Caldari lack.

Aria Jenneth wrote:
Are we just children to you? Immature, blind to the idea that our neighbors and loved ones could be wrong? That protecting them could be wrong?

Yes and no. That culture is admirable and good in the short-term, but unsustainable in the long-term. You cannot ignore your fellow man forever. Eventually the other tribe over the hill will get restless and attack, or collapse and come crawling to you, or surpass you and incorporate you. Humanity has always tended towards unification, and eventually mankind will need to be one or not at all. And I fear that time is rapidly approaching.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#43 - 2015-05-29 17:40:51 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


War is Business. Business is War.

Your failure to grasp the concept does not make it any less axiomatic. I never really can understand people whose conception of war and conflict is so histrionic and eschatological. The wars of tomorrow will not be fought in order to defend and maintain a political, economic, or social status quo -- war will be the political, economic, and social status quo with capsuleers such as ourselves the primary consumers and producers of that new order.

I rest well knowing that with every life I take, and every asset I destroy under such a paradigm fulfills my obligations not only to my Company, Kaalakiota, but the wider State. Indeed, every person I kill in the course of my present occupation keeps many more of my fellow citizens gainfully employed in service to the Company. That others suffer from personal ideological or religious restrictions preventing them from participating in the growing War Economy certainly is of no interest or concern to me.

As for your previous question posed: Yes, I would personally fire upon a neutral capsuleer pilot in a basic civilian frigate while I was in an advanced cruiser in due course as a pre-emptive defensive action to mitigate the potential risk of cynosural field activation with my typical engagement profile -- initial salvos upon designated escape pod systems and closing salvos with an ammunition class where applicable that will ensure effective hyper-velocity armour shrapnel spalling within designated crew zones.



I'm sorry, all I took from this display of verbosity is "I'm a soulles creature who delights in killing." Surely that could have been said in fewer words. Oh, I managed it.

Queen of Chocolate
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#44 - 2015-05-29 17:44:02 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
No economy should be run on human suffering, and if you think this is a perfectly acceptable state of affairs then you are dwelling amongst one of the lowest rungs of human refuse.


For the sake of clarity, does this apply to all of your God chosen and guided Emperors of the past ages that built economies on human suffering?
Nethys Axion
Anshar Incorporated
#45 - 2015-05-29 18:23:39 UTC
Halcyon Ember wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


War is Business. Business is War.

Your failure to grasp the concept does not make it any less axiomatic. I never really can understand people whose conception of war and conflict is so histrionic and eschatological. The wars of tomorrow will not be fought in order to defend and maintain a political, economic, or social status quo -- war will be the political, economic, and social status quo with capsuleers such as ourselves the primary consumers and producers of that new order.

I rest well knowing that with every life I take, and every asset I destroy under such a paradigm fulfills my obligations not only to my Company, Kaalakiota, but the wider State. Indeed, every person I kill in the course of my present occupation keeps many more of my fellow citizens gainfully employed in service to the Company. That others suffer from personal ideological or religious restrictions preventing them from participating in the growing War Economy certainly is of no interest or concern to me.

As for your previous question posed: Yes, I would personally fire upon a neutral capsuleer pilot in a basic civilian frigate while I was in an advanced cruiser in due course as a pre-emptive defensive action to mitigate the potential risk of cynosural field activation with my typical engagement profile -- initial salvos upon designated escape pod systems and closing salvos with an ammunition class where applicable that will ensure effective hyper-velocity armour shrapnel spalling within designated crew zones.



I'm sorry, all I took from this display of verbosity is "I'm a soulles creature who delights in killing." Surely that could have been said in fewer words. Oh, I managed it.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying what you're good at, right? We're capsuleers, humanity is mostly a bad habit at this point.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#46 - 2015-05-29 18:36:59 UTC
Nethys Axion wrote:
Halcyon Ember wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


War is Business. Business is War.

Your failure to grasp the concept does not make it any less axiomatic. I never really can understand people whose conception of war and conflict is so histrionic and eschatological. The wars of tomorrow will not be fought in order to defend and maintain a political, economic, or social status quo -- war will be the political, economic, and social status quo with capsuleers such as ourselves the primary consumers and producers of that new order.

I rest well knowing that with every life I take, and every asset I destroy under such a paradigm fulfills my obligations not only to my Company, Kaalakiota, but the wider State. Indeed, every person I kill in the course of my present occupation keeps many more of my fellow citizens gainfully employed in service to the Company. That others suffer from personal ideological or religious restrictions preventing them from participating in the growing War Economy certainly is of no interest or concern to me.

As for your previous question posed: Yes, I would personally fire upon a neutral capsuleer pilot in a basic civilian frigate while I was in an advanced cruiser in due course as a pre-emptive defensive action to mitigate the potential risk of cynosural field activation with my typical engagement profile -- initial salvos upon designated escape pod systems and closing salvos with an ammunition class where applicable that will ensure effective hyper-velocity armour shrapnel spalling within designated crew zones.



I'm sorry, all I took from this display of verbosity is "I'm a soulles creature who delights in killing." Surely that could have been said in fewer words. Oh, I managed it.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying what you're good at, right? We're capsuleers, humanity is mostly a bad habit at this point.


I don't feel it deserved quite so many words dedicated to what is a simple message. Well, unless one were trying to obscure ones motives with some vague attempt at nobility.

Queen of Chocolate
Nethys Axion
Anshar Incorporated
#47 - 2015-05-29 18:43:16 UTC
Halcyon Ember wrote:
Nethys Axion wrote:
Halcyon Ember wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


War is Business. Business is War.

Your failure to grasp the concept does not make it any less axiomatic. I never really can understand people whose conception of war and conflict is so histrionic and eschatological. The wars of tomorrow will not be fought in order to defend and maintain a political, economic, or social status quo -- war will be the political, economic, and social status quo with capsuleers such as ourselves the primary consumers and producers of that new order.

I rest well knowing that with every life I take, and every asset I destroy under such a paradigm fulfills my obligations not only to my Company, Kaalakiota, but the wider State. Indeed, every person I kill in the course of my present occupation keeps many more of my fellow citizens gainfully employed in service to the Company. That others suffer from personal ideological or religious restrictions preventing them from participating in the growing War Economy certainly is of no interest or concern to me.

As for your previous question posed: Yes, I would personally fire upon a neutral capsuleer pilot in a basic civilian frigate while I was in an advanced cruiser in due course as a pre-emptive defensive action to mitigate the potential risk of cynosural field activation with my typical engagement profile -- initial salvos upon designated escape pod systems and closing salvos with an ammunition class where applicable that will ensure effective hyper-velocity armour shrapnel spalling within designated crew zones.



I'm sorry, all I took from this display of verbosity is "I'm a soulles creature who delights in killing." Surely that could have been said in fewer words. Oh, I managed it.


There's nothing wrong with enjoying what you're good at, right? We're capsuleers, humanity is mostly a bad habit at this point.


I don't feel it deserved quite so many words dedicated to what is a simple message. Well, unless one were trying to obscure ones motives with some vague attempt at nobility.


I quite liked the wording myself, some people need grand explanations to understand them.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2015-05-29 18:45:37 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, the Empyrean Age, where merciless greed is the status quo and blood is the grease that keeps the wheels of industry going!


... yeah.

Well ... if I'm going looking for the Black, I might as well not start at the shallow end.

I sort of assumed I was going hunting instead of fishing, but then this huge thing just lands right in the boat....

Quote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Aldrith, the other side is paying a great deal more than the Empire at the moment so you should just count your blessings we aren't going after a second medal right now, because I gladly would.

If you want to fight on the other side, show your true colors and go ahead and do it. I think we'd both be happier if we were allowed to turn this into a shooting war.


Respectfully to both of you, I can think of someone who would really be unhappy about that.

Quote:
... a culture of responsibility must develop around the grand cause to ensure no one usurps it for their own ends. That is what we Amarr have, and what, arguably, the Caldari lack.


I ...

... no. I can't.

Aldrith, suffice to say that if I agreed with you all that much I'd probably be staying.

Quote:
That culture is admirable and good in the short-term, but unsustainable in the long-term.... Humanity has always tended towards unification, and eventually mankind will need to be one or not at all. And I fear that time is rapidly approaching.


Well ... maybe civilization tends towards unification. Left to its own devices, humanity gets increasingly insular and clannish. Which is one good reason to have civilization.

... but I think if you want just one, you're going to have to walk over the bodies of a lot of people who truly believed in their causes.

Billions, probably.

Including a lot of people you used to call friends.




(We're not suspicious of great causes just because they sometimes get corrupted.)
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2015-05-29 19:08:15 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:

I regret having to fight, but not fighting itself. It is my duty and responsibility to use my strength to defend the weak. For some time now those have been the unfortunate civilians caught within the Amarr-Minmatar warzone. There are quite a lot of battles I am obligated to fight, and arguably some of those are more important than the militia war, but that is where I am right now.

(con't.)


You defend nothing sir, but just help spreading the misery you talk about a little further, like I did in my time fighting under your very own banner. Do not get me wrong, really... I keep the majority of those times as vivid and bright memories, and I also keep fondly that First Lightbringer honor.

But the very fact that they were based on fallacious and hypocritical ideals remains, and continues to this day. We used to tell ourselves that it was to "defend the statu quo" and against "an unprovoked attack". Comforting lies. At least in the past, still, we had the pathetic excuse not to know what to expect, the first years of that war, and where it was going.

It is not an obligation actually. The interesting thing is that it was a Matari that asked me why I was not leaving then, if the only way for it to stop was that every capsuleer turns his back... Leaving that wretched organization that is the proxy war and its militias was the best decision I ever took. It opened my eyes, and only now am I taking the full scope of how blind I was.

We all learn. You should do the same thing, but you seem more interested in healing with a plasma torch...
Jev North
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-05-29 19:45:43 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, the Empyrean Age, where merciless greed is the status quo and blood is the grease that keeps the wheels of industry going!

This is much like calling a Sobaku painting "splotches of ink on paper," or wolves cruel for catching the straggler.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#51 - 2015-05-29 19:55:00 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
No economy should be run on human suffering

There's something wrong with this statement.... I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm sure it has something to do with the source....

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#52 - 2015-05-30 08:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen, the Empyrean Age, where merciless greed is the status quo and blood is the grease that keeps the wheels of industry going!

I grasp the concept perfectly well, Gesakaarin. PIE's own funds come from arms manufacturing and our crews are 'gainfully employed' when they serve aboard our vessels. Well, at least the freemen are. I do not personally use slaves aboard my ships but I am sure some of my fellows do. However, it is that understanding that causes me to reject the concept. No economy should be run on human suffering, and if you think this is a perfectly acceptable state of affairs then you are dwelling amongst one of the lowest rungs of human refuse.


I am a pragmatic woman, Shutaq, I deal with what is and not with what I may desire to be. I do not require moral or ethical placation in order to prosecute what I deem to be necessary actions. It appears you do, however as I have already said -- what interest or concern should that be of mine? I care only to provide honest explanation and opinion, not dishonest justification. If you require the need to justify your own participation in the War Economy, or how when you kill others of your fellow human beings saccharine words changes the fact death has occurred then that is equally no interest or concern of mine. They are only excuses to me, and that is fine, people do sometimes need an excuse to make the kill but I do not.

And I would agree, no economy should be run on human suffering Shutaq, I suppose I can be glad that I view the capsuleer War Economy just as humane as the Amarrian Slave Economy, no?

It would be rather silly of me to say something like:

Ladies and gentlemen, the Amarrian Empire, where merciless military conquest is the status quo and blood is the grease that keeps the wheels of slavery going!

Out of anger, and then probably talk about how much I reject slavery (because I'm a nice person and I need others to know that) while being paid by the 24IC. I mean the irony would simply be just too much for others to bear, I think.

Amusing though. You know, you should try comedy instead of that dour mien, Shutaq.

Halcyon Ember wrote:
I'm sorry, all I took from this display of verbosity is "I'm a soulles creature who delights in killing." Surely that could have been said in fewer words. Oh, I managed it.


I express my thoughts how I choose and not to please the mediocre such as yourself whose complaints of verbosity merits only my mockery and derision.

I believe that response was 140 characters or less dear. Just for you.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#53 - 2015-05-30 08:59:38 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Quote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Aldrith, the other side is paying a great deal more than the Empire at the moment so you should just count your blessings we aren't going after a second medal right now, because I gladly would.

If you want to fight on the other side, show your true colors and go ahead and do it. I think we'd both be happier if we were allowed to turn this into a shooting war.


Respectfully to both of you, I can think of someone who would really be unhappy about that.



You know what, fair point. I have sent an apology to Aldrith. Sometimes I open my mouth without considering the larger ramifications of what I say.

Thank you Aria.
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#54 - 2015-05-30 10:19:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Halcyon Ember
*Vacation*

Queen of Chocolate
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#55 - 2015-05-31 15:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Entry Two: Warmth

If this is the dark, there's nothing especially cold about it.

This is as expected.

PYRE greeted me with cheer, alleged monsters welcoming me, one after another, always by my given name.

If SFRIM's sense of hierarchy was mitigated, PYRE's is merrily-- and I do mean merrily-- non-existent. I've been given no direct commanding officer. There's apparently no one I'm expected to call "sir," or by any other title, or even by a family name.

Respect is implicit. So's compassion. They want to know my history, my background-- not for threat analysis, just to know it, and me. Help and sympathy are both on offer. Systems and procedures are explained, resources to be taken advantage of, not directives to be complied with. Everything is offered, nothing ordered (well-- little. There are, inevitably, a few solid rules). It's assumed that I will work towards our common end.

Before night's end, I'm provided a moderate stack of combat boosters, pod-injected chemicals that will, at least hopefully, improve my performance in battle, but which I found difficult to export from Jita. Apparently they're illegal in the State.

I thank my fellow pilot, and ask what I owe.

Kills, she says.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#56 - 2015-05-31 15:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberious Thessalonia
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Entry Two: Warmth

If this is the dark, there's nothing especially cold about it.

This is as expected.

PYRE greeted me with cheer, alleged monsters welcoming me, one after another, always by my given name.

If SFRIM's sense of hierarchy was mitigated, PYRE's is merrily-- and I do mean merrily-- non-existent. I've been given no direct commanding officer. There's apparently no one I'm expected to call "sir," or by any other title, or even by a family name.

Respect is implicit. So's compassion. They want to know my history, my background-- not for threat analysis, just to know it, and me. Help and sympathy are both on offer. Systems and procedures are explained, resources to be taken advantage of, not directives to be complied with. Everything is offered, nothing ordered (well-- little. There are, inevitably, a few solid rules). It's assumed that I will work towards our common end.

Before night's end, I'm provided a moderate stack of combat boosters, pod-injected chemicals that will, at least hopefully, improve my performance in battle, but which I found difficult to export from Jita. Apparently they're illegal in the State.

I thank my fellow pilot, and ask what I owe.

Kills, she says.


That sounds like Mayrin.

Welcome to the team, Aria.

Edit: I have been told it was Nethys. That makes sense too.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#57 - 2015-05-31 21:22:24 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
If this is the dark, there's nothing especially cold about it.


Temptation rarely is.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#58 - 2015-05-31 21:32:23 UTC
I like temptation.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Matar Ronin
#59 - 2015-06-01 00:58:44 UTC
The OP named this thread for?

A: The area between her ears.

B: The place where her morality should inhabit.

C: The amount of good sense she demonstrates joining with Sansha Nation supporters.

D: All of the above.

Ding ding ding! If you selected D you are the winner!

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#60 - 2015-06-01 01:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Desiderya
Don't cha wish your pilots were hot like mine....

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.