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Would this tactic be effective against "hyper dunking?"
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Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#81 - 2015-08-09 00:32:28 UTC
#1 way to stop a hyperdunk is to not be AFK
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2015-08-09 01:21:23 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:


Which is fine; if they issue a blanket ruling that logging in another character on the same account while one is stuck in space is an exploit, no issues there. It introduces the potential to keep someone from playing EVE for a day or so, but that's not the end of the world. If they try to do it with individual rulings on specific scenarios, we'll just get a bunch of space lawyering and annoyed GM's.



My guess is that if this event occurs we'd also see some action taken on bumping too. You might find that suddenly bumping has an issue with the ToS, specifically number 16,

Quote:
You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#83 - 2015-08-09 02:03:29 UTC
Hyperdunking usually involves bumping the freighter being ganked. Once it's off-grid, your logi fit would have to include probes and a MWD to even get at your freighter.

The simplest counterplay once a dunk in progress is to hit 'safe logoff' the instant you realize what's happening (you don't get a PvP timer from a bump) and hope the shooting doesn't start until the safe logoff timer expires. Then you go jump on an alt and wait for the ganker(s) to get bored. This will only work once per ganker, because shooting faster is a counter to it.

The best counter would be to fly with escorts. This could be someone with probes to fly ahead and steal all these gank-fit catas, logi for repairs, or someone with a combat ship to jam/kill the gankers with before CONCORD gets there. Blowing up the catas before CONCORD does means they underestimate how many catas they need, and those things are squishy. Or, if you get a ship between the freighter and the bumper (or bump the bumper as he realigns), it would make a nice movie.

A signature :o
Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#84 - 2015-08-09 03:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Shuckstar
Lena Lazair wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I couldn't tell, considering it certainly seems like you were arguing for the legality of having two characters logged in at the same time on the same account, one repping the other, and claiming that as a valid tactic because bumping exists.

If I'm wrong, by all means, please tell me what position you actually are taking here.


I'm saying the mechanics allow it and arbitary limits on this sound really painful for the GMs. The same way that hyperdunking was an unintended but creative outcome of the mechanics, this seems like something that is an equally unintended but perfectly legit creative use of the existing mechanics.

Further, it's not so straightforward as you imply. Assume a GM DOES rule that using a logi to rep your freighter is verbotten, that still leaves unresolved:


  • can I use my same account alt to bump the orca/bowhead out of range?
  • can I use my same account alt to scout on grid to see if my main toon is still in space or not?
  • can I use my same account alt to board the empty catalysts laying around?
  • can I use my same account alt to bring CONCORD back to the grid as soon as the hyperdunker has pulled them off grid in his shuttle?
  • can I use my same account alt to jam the hyperdunker once he's back in his Catalyst?
  • can I use my same account to KM whore on my own freighter gank?
  • can I use my same account alt to scan down their shuttle drop and pod them off grid?



I put a ticket in and asked these specific questions and you are allowed to use an alt on the same account to help/aid ect another character on that account that is logged out.


So there's your answer :)

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#85 - 2015-08-09 04:50:47 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


So why has no one defending this supposed tactic taken the simple step of just asking? Seems suspicious, if you ask me.
Shuckstar wrote:

I put a ticket in and asked these specific questions and you are allowed to use an alt on the same account to help/aid ect another character on that account that is logged out.


So there's your answer :)


Well done, sir. Well done, indeed.

Now we can put that to bed and wait for the elites in CODE to fabricate some other thing to deny 'carebears' from protecting themselves.

Mr Epeen Cool
Freddy Sokarad
Doomheim
#86 - 2015-08-10 16:49:18 UTC
Shuckstar wrote:
Lena Lazair wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I couldn't tell, considering it certainly seems like you were arguing for the legality of having two characters logged in at the same time on the same account, one repping the other, and claiming that as a valid tactic because bumping exists.

If I'm wrong, by all means, please tell me what position you actually are taking here.


I'm saying the mechanics allow it and arbitary limits on this sound really painful for the GMs. The same way that hyperdunking was an unintended but creative outcome of the mechanics, this seems like something that is an equally unintended but perfectly legit creative use of the existing mechanics.

Further, it's not so straightforward as you imply. Assume a GM DOES rule that using a logi to rep your freighter is verbotten, that still leaves unresolved:


  • can I use my same account alt to bump the orca/bowhead out of range?
  • can I use my same account alt to scout on grid to see if my main toon is still in space or not?
  • can I use my same account alt to board the empty catalysts laying around?
  • can I use my same account alt to bring CONCORD back to the grid as soon as the hyperdunker has pulled them off grid in his shuttle?
  • can I use my same account alt to jam the hyperdunker once he's back in his Catalyst?
  • can I use my same account to KM whore on my own freighter gank?
  • can I use my same account alt to scan down their shuttle drop and pod them off grid?



I put a ticket in and asked these specific questions and you are allowed to use an alt on the same account to help/aid ect another character on that account that is logged out.


So there's your answer :)


Dammit a person who actually put in a ticket to find out the answer's without foaming at the mouth in rage, like that CODE dude....
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#87 - 2015-08-10 16:58:27 UTC
Shuckstar wrote:

I put a ticket in and asked these specific questions and you are allowed to use an alt on the same account to help/aid ect another character on that account that is logged out.


So there's your answer :)


Good for you. That should pretty much close the thread, then.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#88 - 2015-08-10 17:01:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Shuckstar wrote:

I put a ticket in and asked these specific questions and you are allowed to use an alt on the same account to help/aid ect another character on that account that is logged out.


So there's your answer :)


Good for you. That should pretty much close the thread, then.


Thank you and I agree with you, this thread needs closing Big smile

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Kandu Harr
Doomheim
#89 - 2015-08-11 00:29:43 UTC
Shuckstar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Shuckstar wrote:

I put a ticket in and asked these specific questions and you are allowed to use an alt on the same account to help/aid ect another character on that account that is logged out.


So there's your answer :)


Good for you. That should pretty much close the thread, then.


Thank you and I agree with you, this thread needs closing Big smile


Funny, it's the only open hyperdunking thread since the "official" one got closed.

Globby wrote:
#1 way to stop a hyperdunk is to not be AFK


No, unfortunately the answer would be to sell your freighter and contract the hauling (and risk) to someone else.
Desert Frog
Doomheim
#90 - 2015-08-11 11:28:42 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
The most effective tactic against hyper-dunking is to sell your hauler character and use the proceeds to pay for your transport needs.

People like Red Frog are quite good at avoiding problems and are a reasonable price. Plus, they take the risk. All you do is fire them a couple of million ISKies, tell them where to pick up and drop off and then go have some fun doing anything but hauling.

When the choice is between risking your ship and whatever it's carrying or tossing some guy a million a jump to run from Jita to Amarr and risking nothing, I know which I'd choose.

Mr Epeen Cool


I'll second this suggestion.

Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...

قد البراغيث من ألف الجمال تغزو أولئك الذين فريسة على الضفادع
Globby
Never Ignorant Gettin' Goals Accomplished
Gimme Da Loot
#91 - 2015-08-11 14:23:49 UTC
Kandu Harr wrote:


No, unfortunately the answer would be to sell your freighter and contract the hauling (and risk) to someone else.


nothing stops you from being able to haul like redfrog Blink